Friday with Means - February 12th, 2010 - I got the year right!!!

[Lheann]

snip ... A Lot Of Good Stuff ...

Does it seem to you that instead of fix anything to make it better they rather add new stuff? Last weeks QA really drives it home for me. Fix BS's? No, new PVP area. Fix Lowbie VP? No, new VP method for all levels. Fix junk weapons? No, create new weapons for newbies to use.

I just said Means would go after stuff others would not. And yes he is, but he seems to be of the generation that rather have something new then fix what is broke. This really wears on me.

But I agree with all you posted.

[Tlatoani]

Another Friday with Menas, another report on how they are doing fine, how the things that matter are as always...going fine. Yeah very good news that anything that matters is always going fine.

It is also a good thing that you get the chance to surprise us with another thing WE DIDN'T ASK.

Seriously more TL7 only instances? More Social Clothing?

No wonder the new engine and the balance patch are ALWAYS going fine...

You put your scarce resources (people) doing work we don't care about, how about you stop trying to cling onto our money a little bit more and you start firing the people you don't need (like the people that do this worthless instances/social cloths) and hire some Chinese coders that can do the things we care about (rebalance patch and new engine) quicker, cheaper and more efficiently.

There's only so much you can do to keep people entertained and keep paying your bills with these kind of "updates" and I'm sure your income capital is already showing, so stop playing around these little games and do what the community asks, the MMORPG competence if fierce and you won't keep up if you keep pissing your community with these kind of distractions from the fundamental parts of the game that need updates.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Does it seem to you that instead of fix anything to make it better they rather add new stuff? Last weeks QA really drives it home for me. Fix BS's? No, new PVP area. Fix Lowbie VP? No, new VP method for all levels. Fix junk weapons? No, create new weapons for newbies to use.

Yeah, new instead of repairing the old is exactly what they have been doing for a long time and since well before Means.

One correction though, it wasn't a new VP method for all lvls, he plainly said in the related answer some changes wouldn't affect all lvls and the lower ones weren't part of the planed lvls to get VP changes. Unless the new PvP zone is open to all lvls which I sort of thought may be what he was saying in one of his answers but that wasn't as clear as the fix to lowbie VP question. LE missions will get a "small" boost in VP but we'll have to wait to see if it amounts to much of anything.

Another Friday with Menas, another report on how they are doing fine, how the things that matter are as always...going fine. Yeah very good news that anything that matters is always going fine.

The social clothing from what I gathered from older threads are the new VP buyable items to try to eat through the mass of VP those that spend a lot of time on BSs have and has been asked for. Then what is of interest to one person isn't always of interest to another. Making the new game engine work with AO and then work well with minimal system requirements slowly chugs along and is planed for after things like the rebalance and new player experience/tutorial/whatever changes.

hire some Chinese coders that can do the things we care about (rebalance patch and new engine) quicker, cheaper and more efficiently.

The rebalance won't get done much faster with more coders. How long that takes is mostly about figuring out what to change and how, not coding the changes. As that is going to take some time and as the engine is slated for after the rebalance and new player changes there's still lots of time.

Then Means only can do so much when it comes to hiring and so forth. He is given a budget to work with from the higher ups in FC. They would be the ones to complain to for that sort of stuff. Although as AO is likely just treading water finance wise at this point getting more cash put into it wouldn't be easy.

[Parranoid1]

Does any1 else see the collectors boss to have the face of a protoss?

[PhoenixOfAges]

Does any1 else see the collectors boss to have the face of a protoss?

It's a male spirit mob, that's how they look.

[shadowgod]

They likely figure the game doesn't have that many players and they don't have that many resources to work with so they're focusing their efforts just at the end game range and getting people to that range quickly. Although given the item and quest grind that awaits people there that also turns people off which is why there are those that play just at around TL5. If FC has real population woes then don't stop at just shutting down RK3, shove everyone together onto one server.

from what i've understood of people talking about "modern" MMOs, is that its become something of the norm for them to essentially make "end game" the only part that matters. and thus, getting you to that point as quickly as possible is their aim.

AO devs may be seeing this, and trying to get in with an "us too!" reaction, instead of pointing out "tired of being rushed to endgame? we have tons of content for all ranges!". yea know.. becoming a follower and not a leader.

and i know people get really upset and such when i say this.. but at such rates, why do they make us start at lvl 1? why not go ahead and give us a 220 from the start. ever since SL people have been leveling so fast that theres people who are 220 and dont know anything about their profession. so you cant use "leveling 1-220 is to learn your character" as the excuse. not to mention the never really losing of xp, isnt helping this either (well, it helps the motive of getting people to end game quicker).

call me some old crazy grumpy guy.. but.. an mmo really should be about the journey.. not the destination.

course, now that i think of it, why do we have levels at all.. it might just be easier to just remove that from everyone.. and be a "levelless" game if their aim is to get everyone to the same point as quickly as possible.

[PhoenixOfAges]

from what i've understood of people talking about "modern" MMOs, is that its become something of the norm for them to essentially make "end game" the only part that matters. and thus, getting you to that point as quickly as possible is their aim.

I know, nothing new there and a standard complaint about WoW for instance.

and i know people get really upset and such when i say this.. but at such rates, why do they make us start at lvl 1? why not go ahead and give us a 220 from the start.

Which is what I said in one of the linked posts. If they want to zip us to 220 so badly and focus all the content at 220 just get rid of the other 219 lvls and be done with it. Means in the past said allowing us to skip the first 200 or so lvls was even an option they were thinking of.

ever since SL people have been leveling so fast that theres people who are 220 and dont know anything about their profession.

Oh the join of being in a lvling team where the doc has no heals and so forth. Then we get to be in teams with them at 220 and they still don't know what they're doing.

[Chrys]

call me some old crazy grumpy guy.. but.. an mmo really should be about the journey.. not the destination.

course, now that i think of it, why do we have levels at all.. it might just be easier to just remove that from everyone.. and be a "levelless" game if their aim is to get everyone to the same point as quickly as possible.

Sucks to be you lowbie

The problem was when LE took forever to come out back in the day. In 2005, there weren't that many 220s around, most didn't even dream of equipping intelligent symbs and pretty much all of TL7 was on that "journey". But nearly everyone was done with the journey by the time LE came out. Bringing 220s back into the inf mish rolling for research speeded up everyone else's progress as well. Capping "experience" at LE70 and promising no more for the foreseeable future (while making AXP easier to get) turned AO into a pure item grind. No matter how "fun" they make an instance, the only point is from the character-improvement/tinkering perspective (the main reason I believe people play MMOs) is just item-grinding, and this explains why lootright selling, pay-to-raid, creditselling and all kinds of economic innovations have sprung up around the game. With PVM easy as it is however, the only reason to get items is for PVP, thus building a self-reinforcing logic of what the game is made to cater for.

TLDR version: sucks to be you

[Reacon]

also, yaay Duke Nukem Forev... err... graphics update!

Fitting comparison, as sad as it is. Lol, Devs what are you doing in this thread, get back to work on the engine!

I promise to be one of the many to resubscribe and give you my monies as soon as the new engine comes.

Also, I've unequipped a piece of equipment many a time while messing with my current layout, and plenty with accidentally right clicking a weapon in my Inventory (haste makes waste). A Lock Equipment is very welcome.

[Iamkama]

You put your scarce resources (people) doing work we don't care about, how about you stop trying to cling onto our money a little bit more and you start firing the people you don't need (like the people that do this worthless instances/social cloths) and hire some Chinese coders that can do the things we care about (rebalance patch and new engine) quicker, cheaper and more efficiently.

Weren't you the one who said like 2 weeks ago that you were leaving AO for good because you were pissed off at something Means had said?

Why are you still here bitching and moaning like a child?

If you feel that AO isn't worth paying for anymore, well buddy, noone's forcing your fingers to put in that CC number...

[Aiken]

Ya know, FWM's would be SO much nicer to read without the fracking WALLS OF TEXT WHINING from certain WALL OF BORING TEXT MERCHANTS that frequent every damn post one of the Devs make.

While on topic, it's nice to see more stuffs to do at endgame, not EVERYONE enjoys the lower levels & a very great many of us WELCOME more to do at 'endgame'. We spend YEARS making characters, often multiple characters, up to the high levels and there's been so little to do until recently it's nice to see more things to do once you're 220/30/70 etc.

Don't like the item grind ? Don't do it! It's really not rocket science.

[Technogen]

@PhoenixOfAges and Lheann

What exactly do you two want out of this? You've said "they aren't making things for the lower levels." That is true, but what do you want out of them, VP, Means said last week that they were going to address the lack of BS running. Experience, this counters your whole mindset as you were complaining that players rocket to end game too quickly.

What you want is new things for YOU to do at those levels, not for new players to do.

[Aiken]

/snip

what you want is new things for you to do at those levels, not for new players to do.

*bingo*

[Rktim]

... wait, I'm supposed to do what now?

Oh, right, instance!

Here's a few quick shots - Trust me when I say these pictures do nothing to try and explain the action that'll be taking place in this area. Definitely looking forward to watching you guys play around with this one.

Yay means got my PM =p

[Chereee]

... wait, I'm supposed to do what now?

Oh, right, instance!

Here's a few quick shots - Trust me when I say these pictures do nothing to try and explain the action that'll be taking place in this area. Definitely looking forward to watching you guys play around with this one.

lol, subway mobs

[SoapTarder]

....No matter how "fun" they make an instance, the only point is from the character-improvement/tinkering perspective (the main reason I believe people play MMOs) is just item-grinding, and this explains why lootright selling, pay-to-raid, creditselling and all kinds of economic innovations have sprung up around the game. With PVM easy as it is however, the only reason to get items is for PVP, thus building a self-reinforcing logic of what the game is made to cater for.

you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't possibly argue with this because It's exactly how I see it too.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Ya know, FWM's would be SO much nicer to read without the fracking WALLS OF TEXT WHINING from certain WALL OF BORING TEXT MERCHANTS that frequent every damn post one of the Devs make.

If you don't want to read what others write as you think it's too long, don't read it. It's really not rocket science.

VP, Means said last week that they were going to address the lack of BS running.

Where? He said they were planning some adjustments to BSs but didn't say what or when. He did comment on an entirely new PvP area with no queues. To which as I said when he mentioned it last year seemed a bad idea given the problems getting PvP content working that existed then and is only worse now. With it being a no queue PvP area that's always open it would seem what many asked for with BSs to try to get them easier to start up. But with it not being BSs but something else it means that this new something else is coming at the cost of BSs since surely people would go for the option that's easier to get going.

That was one of the points, new content at the cost of old. Rather than adjusting or reinventing older content they just add new content leaving older content to die or split players between them so neither work well.

What you want is new things for YOU to do at those levels, not for new players to do.

Er, what? "New players to do" doesn't make much sense. Unless you look at that from a certain angle then it really doesn't sound quite right and isn't what I'm looking to do with others in game. If you meant "new players to do things with" I did say that if they feel there is a real population problem then just condense all the servers into one.

Then they always add new content, it's a standard for MMORPGs, there's always new content being added. The problem is the new content keeps going towards the end game range. That only focuses on the idea there's no point in being any lvl but 220.

Then at 220 there's a horde of things to chew through to get your char together which turns people off. If you say if you don't want to do the item grind then don't do it then that's about equivalent of saying if you don't want to do the item grind then quit. Which is exactly what people end up doing.

course, now that i think of it, why do we have levels at all.. it might just be easier to just remove that from everyone.. and be a "levelless" game if their aim is to get everyone to the same point as quickly as possible.

The standard concept of a game with no char lvl progression is the more you use a skill the better you become at using it. With a lvling game like AO you get points to distribute each time you lvl. You can then go from being unable to use something at all to being fully proficient in it a second later.

In AO we have IPRs, buyable IPRs and full IPRs any time they make big changes with people begging for more and unlimited free full IPRs. We used to have to wait two or more days before we could reset a single perk, now we can reset them all for free every two days or pay a bit to do it as often as we want. They even say changing our breed will become possible later on. The only thing we'd be lacking before long is the option to change profs.

You can practically remake your char without starting a new one in AO. In those no char levels skill building games there may be added penalties on skills you try building after getting a related one to a certain point. If you build a char one way to do one thing and decide you want to a different char type you make a new char. In AO if it's the same prof we just use resets, keep our current one and as time goes by it just becomes easier to do that. The only real reason to make a new char of the same prof now is for a twink at a different level. Although with all the new content going to end game lvls and the push to get us there quickly plus the possible option to skip some 200 of those lvls in the future the usefulness of such chars diminishes.

With so much in terms of item and quest grinding at the lvl they apparently want us to play at (220) people are rather reluctant to make new chars. As more is added to grind in that range that desire to stick with what chars you have increases. Then people get tired of the same prof all the time. So they try building a new char of a different prof to see if that will help but then hit the wall of grind at the end and get tired of it all. Bye bye old player and perhaps no new player to take their place.

[Notcrattey]

Please for the love of god means, add more dungeons/instances like bio-mare.
and make content for 80-149!


But otherwise, looking cool, more instances even if they are TL7 are welcome, would prefer lower level instances but I guess I need to see the daily missions

[Mako]

Completely agree with Phoenix.

Personally, I'd like to see something for TL5 (150-180). People work *so* hard and put so much time into their TL5 chars (getting 300 ofab on w/o exploits, for example) only to stand outside BS waiting all day for 3 more omnis to show up, do 1 round then log for the day (hai RK2).

I'm not saying this to stray away from TL2-4 content requests, just wanted to add another.

[ElBoogy]

Equip lock function?

sounds great, was looking for it the past 10000 years of my entire ao life