Friday with Means - February 12th, 2010 - I got the year right!!!

[TmL]

requiring thinking = good.

seeing color, running to glowy pad = retarded.

i read what kintaii said, no running to glowy color pad this instance...but i guarantee there will be some dumb color coded thing. or else there'd be no reason for the 4 colored shades and the lighted pillars. and you want a raid you gotta play smart? take away instanced pande and redo how loot rights are given in raid interfaces. make beast lair a Kill Team DD War again. RK1 FFA week for beast was some of the funnest AO playtime Ive had...but ofc the smaller guilds (like the one Im in now) will complain that the larger orgs (the ones that spend the time to get good that these raids...spartans, riders, punk) are monopolizing the zone.....so be it, get better.

ok....incoherent rambling done...time to sleep...will probably re-read this tomorrow and have to edit it cuz it made no sense lol

[Klod9003]

I enjoy mine, maybe you should make a thread in the MP forums discussing why you no longer enjoy yours so that your professionals can communicate to the devs problems that you and the other players are experiencing with the MP profession.

I didn't ask you anything. I was asking Means.

[lazarus]

hey all at FC,

I must say, people have been saying that AO is dying for years now, but one thing is for sure, that is that the AO team is alive and kicking so hard ass!

great work guys. your are making this game evolving and going forward.
Thanks you for that.

I just have one question (I know it's not question time atm, but I did not ask one last friday :P )

but will we be seeing Docaholic(forum nick) work ingame ever?

[Technogen]

but will we be seeing Docaholic(forum nick) work ingame ever?

Means has publicly told Doc to get ahold of him to talk about that.

[Technogen]

I didn't ask you anything. I was asking Means.

Yes but your statement was a blanket statement, you said "TL7 MP's" not "My TL7 MP" so it was completely within my rights to respond to you about making a blanket statement.

[Technogen]

i read what kintaii said, no running to glowy color pad this instance...but i guarantee there will be some dumb color coded thing. or else there'd be no reason for the 4 colored shades and the lighted pillars.

They could just be there for the sole fact of what you've had done to you, confuse players by making them go; "They are there they must mean something!".

[crude4gone]

Wow, can't remember the last time i saw so much premature whine over a few screenshots before.

[Technogen]

Wow, can't remember the last time i saw so much premature whine over a few screenshots before.

Pretty much happens any time they post screenshots :/

[crude4gone]

Pretty much happens any time they post screenshots :/

Hehe true. But not something this vague. The only thing we know about it so far is that it will NOT be another guitar hero clone.

To me it looks like some sort of arena for games.

But tbh I would MUCH rather hear about this new pvp area open to everyone 24/7. Oh I hope they make it into some sort of urban setting.

[Klod9003]

Yes but your statement was a blanket statement, you said "TL7 MP's" not "My TL7 MP" so it was completely within my rights to respond to you about making a blanket statement.

Yes, yes. That's why you are an engie professional, because you enjoy playing your TL7 MP. I get it.

Can we stop now, please and let the man answer my question?

[Technogen]

Yes, yes. That's why you are an engie professional, because you enjoy playing your TL7 MP. I get it.

To be fair, most of us professionals have more than 1 TL7, and both Engineer Profs have TL7 MPs on an alt account that we can dual log.

PS; me posting a reply to you does not remotely stop Means from doing so, if he chooses to.

[Lheann]

Nothing came from it because they put another system in game so that players of all levels could get AI Exp, they have also expanded the amount of cities a player can go to.

I've created thousands of threads full of ideas and you dont here me bitching that they havnt made Blankets of the Gods or anything like that.

Also, there is all this Older content for those levels, yeah its not new to you but it is to new players. Up until 08 there was no real end game content, there was APF, and Panda, and Tara, that was it, now they are adding new end game content to handle it since that is the level range where most of the current players are.

Wow not a response I would expect from you. But frankly I don't care as I am so tired of the almost exclusive endgame only mentallity of the last 3 years. And we all put ideas in the forums. But sometimes a person takes the time to develop the backstory, maps, mobs, new loot items, multiple missions for the zone, loot tables, spawn tables, boss stats, boss special tricks and boss interactions. Then packaged it up nicely and turned it in. Must like the work Docaholic is doing they end up with a product that is much further along than a suggestion in the forums. I had hopes after talking to Means that we would see new content in the lower levels as it was something he himself said he was aware of needing. Two years and not even a post saying that a new low level instance is coming.

Now Subway (pre-sl) and TOTW (pre-sl) are the bulk of the level 10 to 60 content. SoM was redone but as I said it is a /fail because 220's farm it all the time for alts. So start with SL and move foward for 200+ content items and lets see the list.
Inf
Pande
iPande
APF's (4 of them)
iAPF's (3 of them)
LoX
DB1
DB2
LE Missions

Ok now the list of content from SL forward for level 60 and below
Nasc
SoM (rework - /fail due to farming)
LE Missions

I really don't mind that there is new endgame content as I am at endgame too. But come on the spread love and make the lower levels have options too that are not pre-sl. Tell me why the endgame players should be the only ones getting content that is new. Maybe the reason a friend recently tried and decided AO was a joke was that all the content is driven to endgame and company seems to not care that the lower levels are so hard and boring and old looking by comparsion.

Yes this is something that erks the heck out of me... I saw 7 post by the time i could responde to the endgame info of collector that asked why not a TL4 instance. So I know I am not alone. To bad FC still does not get it.

[lazarus]

alot of stuff

hey Lheann,

i really dont know what you have made, but it cant be something FC just can deploy in the code and be over with it.

The work Docaholic have made, is very close to deployable.

with that said, It would be cool to see all you work

oh, I also need to comment on the only tl7 stuff.

im sure FC have some statistic on the amount of played time at every tl or atleast they can get it out of the database

[crude4gone]

Now Subway (pre-sl) and TOTW (pre-sl) are the bulk of the level 10 to 60 content.

What are you talking about? Exactly what defines "content" for you? You found some portal that takes you directly from Jobe to Ado without having garden keys, so you mistakenly bypassed both Nascense, the starter area and Elysium??

[Technogen]

I understand what you're saying but its kinda just a matter of actual game progression. At Levels 1 - 100ish there are TONS of things to actually do, yes some have been around for a long time. Look at TL7, right now it almost seems empty because people are off doing so much, and because people have so many things to do they have problems doing them. Now start breaking up a point in the game where there's a lower overall active population and you start killing off new players entering the game.

From levels 1 to 100 you have the following things you can do in game.

1 - 10
ICC Shuttle Port Island - (Getting a Revamp that was designed by Means himself)
Subway (Available at Level 5)
Starter Missions on the mainland, these range from level 5 to 50.

5 - 25
Subway
Secondary Starter Missions, these are old yes, but they give a fair amount of exp, credits and items.

20 - 60
Totw - This zone offers pretty good exp, and many used items. Could stand for some reworking
Battle Station - Runs rarely but does run
Cyborgs
Outdoor RK, Lots of area on RK is for this levels

You Have Foreman's, Outdoor RK, RK Missions, SL outdoors, LE missions, Cities, and a heck of a lot of outdoor missions on RK and in SL.

I know I'm missing stuff from this list. Could this content stand being updated, heck yes. Do there really need to be new zones added, no I honestly do not think there needs to be a plethora of new areas added for levels 1 to 100. Yes, levels 125ish to 200 could stand for some more content zones, and some more quest that give nice rewards. Do remember though that there is a lot of content out there already existing, and the only reason most people on the forums ignore it is because they have done it 10,000 times on 60,000 alts.

[Iamkama]

Good lookin social armor!


Woot for reppin OA

Also, great news on the engine, lock equipment option, dailies, and the engine.

Btw, the new instance looks great . The boss looks meeeaaan

[Chrys]

Removed.

[AGPEcko]

Do we really need more huge beams of colored lights to make the raid run around?
Every instance has now become a giant Bop-It!.

And as usual, minimum possible amount of details when it comes to what matters: The new Engine.

I play in a pretty good time-zone, central. I'd say I play through peak-time every day considering the amount of time I've got. I often run by Dark Ruins... it's completely void of life.
And at time, I accidentally zone into the Grind, also, completely void of life.

Does anyone hear about how many people are coming back when the new mission system comes out? Doubt it.

[PhoenixOfAges]

It's also worth noting that yes, while the Collector instance is currently geared toward end-game players, there's a whole slew of content incoming for all title levels in the form of the Daily Missions system. There's more to the next update than just one instance.

And there we have it. A once a day mission system for all level ranges is content. I think you guys really don't get it. I have said it before and I will say it again. FC your actions continue to indicate that endgame is the only real part of the game you care about.

That is what got me so frustrated in the last FWM after all the answers were posted (here and especially here). It became blatantly obvious they were aiming towards the idea of getting us to lvl 220 in record time and gearing the content just for the end game range. When asked if they will fix lowbie VP Means said it wasn't possible as they weren't aiming such content at that range. Of course they can't do anything as they're fixated at VP being PvP gained and they can't make people sign up to PvP at every lvl. Then from what was said in the past these new "PvP" missions for VP will be more go to the opposing side's city and kill some guards missions. Can't do that at lvl 50 too well at all so oh well, can't fix lowbie VP. If PvP or "PvP" methods don't work then maybe PvP gains for a general use currency that mostly purchases general use items usable by chars of most any lvl isn't a good idea. Seems obvious, but let's ignore that and continue making the same mistakes.

For a long time one of the big gripes have been how content in AO is so top heavy. Especially after LoX came along people started asking for content in other lvl ranges more frequently. Also for a long time there's been the complaint of people outside of the lvl ranges of the two at least semi-functional BSs can't get VP well. But let's all ignore that and zip everyone to 220 so they can grind gear and quests till their ears bleed.

The worst grind in the game isn't the lvl grind, it's the item grind. You could be 220/30/70 and still have a good number of items you want to get yet and every so often along comes a new patch or what not with more. So now there's a new booster in the works aimed at providing alternate ways to get existing gear. How much are you willing to bet it's just for end game gear?

Then from there just think of what that will do to existing methods of getting that gear. They are going to add a new PvP area with no queues. When Means first mentioned that they're going to add a new PvP zone almost a year ago I said doing that would be a bad idea due to how the current PvP content has a hard enough time getting going, so adding more will just make things worse. Instead it would be better to improve the PvP content we have. Now PvP content is having an even harder time staying active plus we learn the new PvP zone will lack queues and always be open so no waiting around like BSs. So long as it will be open to the 150+ range that will certainly shut down both active BSs. The only way it may backfire is if PvPers decide running around in it looking for someone to fight isn't as good as waiting around outside of BSs for enough to join up. With a new booster to get old items if the methods are more effective you can bet people will stop going to the old content. New content at the expense of old content. People have complained about that too like when they added quest mobs in places people used to hunt and removed the mobs that used to be there.

They likely figure the game doesn't have that many players and they don't have that many resources to work with so they're focusing their efforts just at the end game range and getting people to that range quickly. Although given the item and quest grind that awaits people there that also turns people off which is why there are those that play just at around TL5. If FC has real population woes then don't stop at just shutting down RK3, shove everyone together onto one server.

[Lheann]

...Very on point reply...

Very on point. Yes my work was not like Doc's that can plug directly in. But it was far larger submission than you can put in the forums easily. 20 page Word Document, 5 Excel Spread Sheets and 3 maps. In all I actually did 10 full playfield maps to get 3 that worked. I stopped short of a 3D walk thru of the playfield as my RL did not have the time to spare.

The work i did not getting in game is not so much the point.. though there was a time frame discussed of when it could be looked at for inclussion... (come and gone btw) but what the point was susposed to be was that in submitting that I talked to FC and they recognized the need for low level content in the sub 100 range as far back as 2 years ago.

Ok, the first time I submitted this was to Sil so you have an idea how far out it was. Sil called it "A good first cut" at a new playfield. Means took over and I discussed it with him and retargeted it at a level range he suggested and further refined the idea. So there was a good deal of information there to start a new playfield from. (And Kintaii if you are reading this - Back story is truly a PITA and I don't want your job) Means like Sil saw that there was a need for something at lower levels but at the time they were focused on LoX booster based at the time on what seemed like a good reason and I will quote means here from those conversations at that time (2yrs roughly ago)

Another thing to keep in mind is that according to our statistics 210+ IS almost everyone.

Discussion carried on a little further to talk about that maybe that was the effect of no up to date content at those lower levels. Needless to say it was enlightening and I respect Means greatly for that conversation. It gave me very good insight into how long there development plans are laid out and what drives their plans as well. I knew then that Means would be willing to fix and go after stuff no one had never thought about doing. (Means, I may be fussy and PITA but I truly understand what you do and why even if I make a big issue out of it sometimes). But lower level content specially in the gap between 80 and 149 is really lacking in the XP (reward vs time) area.

Right now we are seeing the "cause" lots of people at endgame having the "effect" of more endgame content getting added. I see it as the "effect" of everyone rushing to endgame and making those number so high as a result of the "cause" no enjoyable lower level content that is as up to date as the new endgame stuff.

As it has been said a lot of people are not doing new toons because of the content issues at lower levels. We have the "run left" problem on NI and the learning cliff. To have yet another endgame instance is frustrating at best. If they spent the time to generate a new start experience with the detail of this new instance and put in a really good learning systems with it it would do wonders for AO.