Meta's in pvp

[Lightingfist]

I would like to point what Meta's need to survie in PvP.

1.) We need lower lvl reflect shields.
We cant take hits at all in pvp. We shudder at facing a twinked out enfocer charging at us and whats our defence. Damage debuffs and our heal pets with heal perks. The debuffs dont lower the damage enough for you pets to out heal the damage, which leaves us defenceless. And we dont get out best defencess till level what 200+? So what we need is several level locked shield that can be purchesed through victory point vendors or make it a VERY rare mission drop. The shields won't be as good as the 200+ one but like first title level will have 5 percent reflect all damage and the AC buff as well and so forth. And make them 2hb so we can have that 1hb combo.

2.) Pets need more perception?
Yes I would like to point out. Our pets need more perception so we can find those twinked out agents. Since we dont have perception buff for out pets to do so they need more perception. Enough said.

3.) We could use more evade buffs.
We only have one evade buff which loses its value at higher lvls. More evades buffs would help us greatly in BS so we could evade more attacks than take them. We arnt built to take hits we're suppose to sit back and let our pets do the dirty work. But in pvp it dosnt work that way they go right after the pet master insted of the pets (unless they deside to get rid of the annoying mezz pet first so they're not mezzed by it which is useless because if you or your pet hit it the mezz is canceled.). So we need some evades so we dont die faster than our mezz pet against the beast solo.

4.) Ok last one I think. Evoctions are needed.
Since out pets are lvl locked and so are Evoctions which leaves us at a biger bid so I think a good way to fix that is to get rid of one of the lvl locks. So. Since I or anyone else see's lvl locks coming off the pets why don't we get rid of the lvl locks on the evoctions. Give our pets we're stuck with for several lvls more power so we're not lacking in damage as we lvl on to higher things.

5.) If above fails then make Evoctions and Animas stack with each other.
Like I said if we cant get rid of the lvl locks removed from the Evoctions then make Animas stack with them. nough said.

So these are my idea's to inprove the Meta-Physicist in pvp so we can be more of use in bs than we are now. So give me your thoughts.
PLEASE DONT FLAME!!!!

[Ciex]

You have evades and debuffs. When/if alien perks and AS change MPs will be pretty much unkillable.

[Klod9003]

You have evades and debuffs.

We have debuffs, which are outdated. SoZ is getting nerfed, SS is getting nerfed.

When/if alien perks and AS change MPs will be pretty much unkillable.

SoZ is getting nerfed, SS is getting nerfed, so... No.

[Martialmad]

2.) Pets need more perception?
Yes I would like to point out. Our pets need more perception so we can find those twinked out agents. Since we dont have perception buff for out pets to do so they need more perception. Enough said.

Sorry for my ignorance, but why should MP be able to detect people better than other profs ?
Is there anything in prof description or in your current toolset that says so ?

You have evades and debuffs. When/if alien perks and AS change MPs will be pretty much unkillable.

We don't know yet

[Parranoid1]

We have debuffs, which are outdated. SoZ is getting nerfed, SS is getting nerfed.



SoZ is getting nerfed, SS is getting nerfed, so... No.

where is SoZ getting nerfed , i read that there is gonna be a reflects hard cap, wats happening to the SoZ?

[Essessceeaych]

Don't forget to mention...actually fix pets, instead of giving us 20 new nanos. The extra nanos are a band-aid. They cover up the problem, they don't fix it.

[Mountaingoat]

where is SoZ getting nerfed , i read that there is gonna be a reflects hard cap, wats happening to the SoZ?

I can't imagine it not being nerfed in some way. Everything as singularly strong as the Zset I just don't see surviving the nerfbat, as much as I hate to see it go. Imo Zset is was the crutch that mp's needed to function as a debuffer with such an unreliable, off/on, luck based, flat ineffective/negligible at times, debuff toolset. Here's hoping that MPs work gud after the balance patch.

[Dancingrage]

Same could be said of SS too though, that it was a crutch that was keeping the MP from being able to do anything in combat.

To the OP, however, the future power of the MP is currently lined up in a few things: huge changes to Ancient Knowledge, to where it should be THE perkline to have compared to CONC (for example, when the perk changes hit I have a higher priority to have AK 10 vs CONC 10.) gain 60 nanoskills and get a great perk team heal/team nanoheal that scales to BM, SS healing perks are being cut to half their current recharge (20s vs 40), the new 207 perk heal will be on 25s recharge, these alone do good things to our survivability, but isn't negating the swarms of damage coming in.

This is where the Damage-To-Pet ideas that the developers are working on come into play. Details aren't really there at this point but the idea is that we get some way of shunting damage from us to our pet at a percentage, aka like reflects or damage-to-nano, so this combined with our other boosts will help.

None of it matters a whole lot if the pets aren't up to snuff, and that's one that we probably won't be able to judge until we see it for ourselves on the beta server when it comes up. Splitting the Mezzball line into a few different lines might give the blue bomber a bit more use than just something I name after a doc to get called in mass PVP or an emergency calmer in Pande (yes, a fully buffed Yidira can calm the Subjugators up to the Pandemonium.) while I'm thinking up new ideas for other lines and am always, always looking for more ideas from the playerbase as to what pets could have to help the MP as a profession.

[Flyingengi]

In my opinion, the Tigress is the crutch.

Mp was the pet profession that would sit back and nuke/debuff from a distance while the pets done all the dirty work.

[Cryfreman]

This is where the Damage-To-Pet ideas that the developers are working on come into play. Details aren't really there at this point but the idea is that we get some way of shunting damage from us to our pet at a percentage, aka like reflects or damage-to-nano, so this combined with our other boosts will help.

Problem being with this is it will end up being a timed perk, which is pretty fail bar duel's. Done a few bs's lately without using SS/Blockers, things are real bad, infact for a bow mp without blockers we are back to pre mp love patch.

Mix this with run speed nerf's so no kiting and things look even worse. Duel every other prof toe to toe without blockers/kiting and all of them will pretty much alpha you into last week,funny enough the classes you will last longest agaisnt is a doc.....and a mp.

Mp's need better static def(non shield of course).

[Klod9003]

where is SoZ getting nerfed , i read that there is gonna be a reflects hard cap, wats happening to the SoZ?

You answered it yourself. And also, AAD won't help against NR checking perks anymore.

[Parranoid1]

You answered it yourself.

yeah, the hard cap is gonna be like 85% or something, how often do SoZ MPs go above 85% reflects? 30+30+7 from bracer + maybe 6 from keeper aura? couldnt see how it would effect it if u didnt go over 85% reflects

And also, AAD won't help against NR checking perks anymore.

thats an aad nerf not a SoZ nerf :P (in fact i would think that would help u land ur perks easier as well?)

[Flyingengi]

Since I have ~2.9k NR...I don't know anybody that will be able to perk me.

[Gatester]

If you want clarification on my comments ask, but im just going to state my opinion.

49 MP's are the hardest profession for me to kill personally and was relatively easy to use myself.

75 MP's are casting all top RK nanos self buffed, and in my opinion are the strongest profession in PVM and PVP at the level.

118 MP's have incredible offensive and defensive options, and easily take on any other profession at its level while avoiding 150+

So thats the lower levels, as for the mid levels, well since 120 or 125 (whenever MP's can gain their RK quest nuke) is the cap on MP effectiveness until the shadowlevels, their relative strength decreases in proportion to other professions becoming stronger. For PVP I lack a strong base beyond tl4, but for PVM.

The 179 emnity pet does nice damage, and spamming nukes while using high damage bows (double nimbus I believe and then to tigress) is a strong option. In fact, I was easily able to use the top evocation from the LE nano booth on my 179 emnity and in fact OD the 165-201 locked pets significantly (I ran damage parsers so if you want to argue this use one yourself and post it). Emnity is definately more fragile than SL pets and is unable to tank, but damage is not an issue.

In response to removing the level locks on evocation nanos? No, absolutely not. The pets are already devestating at lower levels and I could easily cast the final evoc on my new 75 MP twink. There is no need to overpower the profession further at lower levels, when that is definately not an area of issue with the profession.

Perception, and I assume the desire for pets to unconceal and attack players, is also a bad move in my opinion. MP's can already remove themselves from much of the dangers of combat if they utilize concealment themselves, and if the pets can find players without the MP making themselves vulnerable then it would be completely unfair.


Summation: If you find TL2-4 MP's weak and lacking, you are not utilizing the profession properly. TL5-7 concerns are justified.

[Klod9003]

Since I have ~2.9k NR...I don't know anybody that will be able to perk me.

Good. Not everybody chose to have that. But, NTs will still perk you (even easier now), crats maybe.

yeah, the hard cap is gonna be like 85% or something, how often do SoZ MPs go above 85% reflects? 30+30+7 from bracer + maybe 6 from keeper aura? couldnt see how it would effect it if u didnt go over 85% reflects

And who told you that it will be 85%, in all situations, on each profession? They promised complete overhaul of nanos, which will include RRFE as well.

thats an aad nerf not a SoZ nerf :P (in fact i would think that would help u land ur perks easier as well?)

That's total of 660 defense lots against NR checking perks. It sure is a SoZ nerf.

[Flyingengi]

Good. Not everybody chose to have that. But, NTs will still perk you (even easier now), crats maybe.

I'm not worried about NT's perking me...it's already to easy mode for them as is.

[Parranoid1]

And who told you that it will be 85%, in all situations, on each profession? They promised complete overhaul of nanos, which will include RRFE as well.

it was said the that hard cap was comin in so that professions could no longer have 100% damage reflects anymore (particularly with the nanomage damage to nano perks coming), but lower so that soldiers using ofab back + AMS5 wont be effected, so i would assume that means around the 87% reflects, since they have said hardcap and that i would assume that would mean across the board, since nothing else has been said.

iirc they are doing mostly rework to nanos such as debuffs in pvp and roots/snares/calms and alike, i dont know that buffs like GSF/RRFE will be changed to any great degree...

That's total of 660 defense lots against NR checking perks. It sure is a SoZ nerf.

since MPs can get great nano resist anyways i cant see it effecting you as badly as say....fixers? they are losing ALOT more defense in the AAD change then u guys are, so yes, its an AAD nerf not a SoZ nerf (SoZ might be getting slightly nerf in that way, but its not a direct SoZ nerf, its an AAD nerf and SoZ has aad)

[Klod9003]

since MPs can get great nano resist anyways i cant see it effecting you as badly as say....fixers?

No, MPs can get mediocre NR at best, nothing fancy. Great NR is available to NTs and enfs only.

they are losing ALOT more defense in the AAD change then u guys are, so yes, its an AAD nerf not a SoZ nerf (SoZ might be getting slightly nerf in that way, but its not a direct SoZ nerf, its an AAD nerf and SoZ has aad)

Look, we are losing AAD Vs NR checking perks and I consider it as a serious (probably deserved) nerf. I don't care who lost more, or less. The fact is, SoZ equipped MPs lost some and you can't deny it.

We also lose defense in lower title levels, because creation weapons won't be usable with regular weapons anymore (no more parry sticks + shield), so hush. You have no clue what you are talking about.

[Lupusceleri]

@OP:

Agreed with 1, though it should be damage-to-pet reflect (a permanent reflect, not temporary). That's what SS always should've been imho.

Disagreed with 2. I don't think MP are one of the "covert ops" professions, and they especially shouldn't be able to pull Agents out of sneak without any effort or sacrifice whatsoever.

At higher levels agreed with 3. Disagreed for lower levels - AI perks and stuff needs to be nerfed so we are unperkable-ish, hopefully damage-to-pet reflect and/or a better healpet will take care of the rest.

Neutral feelings on 4 and 5.

Also, WTB a better healpet!

You have evades and debuffs. When/if alien perks and AS change MPs will be pretty much unkillable.

1. Debuffs do not equal additional defense. Well, Dazzle does, rest doesn't. We don't have the perks for Dazzle though.
2. Let's face it, non-220 req'd MP damage debuffs are worthless + we don't really have time to cast them.
3. When/if alien perks change, a twink MP will also:
- Lose at least 100 EvadeClose because you can't dualwield a regular weapon with a Creation anymore.
- Lose the ability to effectively kite melee professions, meaning professions such as a Keeper or Enforcer can just q/afk/follow and get the kill.
- Get perked by most NR checking perks since AAD makes up a huge part of our def (and our selfbuffed NR is lower than EvadeClose/DodgeRanged/DuckExp).

Also an argumentum ad hominem: you are the 170 twinked Enforcer that's crying about TL5 MPs being an overpowered profession. That's more than classic. I don't think you're in the position to judge MP defenses when you can't even kill one now.

yeah, the hard cap is gonna be like 85% or something, how often do SoZ MPs go above 85% reflects? 30+30+7 from bracer + maybe 6 from keeper aura? couldnt see how it would effect it if u didnt go over 85% reflects

You don't know anything at all about what the reflect hardcap is going to be. And besides, who says it won't be different values for each profession?

[Parranoid1]

You don't know anything at all about what the reflect hardcap is going to be. And besides, who says it won't be different values for each profession?

its been said that it wont be low enough to effect solds with AMS5 and ofab back, which is 87% reflects. thats been stated, but no nothing has been said about if its across all.