Endgame fixers.

[Fekal]

The removal of triples/doubles will not make fixers unkillable. NT's can kill fixers without them today (not as fast tho) and with the changes on how AAD not will be counted in on NR checking perks, the difference will be slim to none.

I admit that the duration of fixers roots and snares are ridiculous but so are the landing rate.
Duration of roots can be cut in half and snares 1/4 of what it is today.
Basicly it's just 3 professions that fixers can root somewhat reliable (as long as they hasn't perked NR), Docs, Soljas and shades. Pets are generally easier to snare/root but it's easy to remove, albeit it costs a hefty shunk of nano.

How the AS nerf will turn out is hard to predict (if it ever will be implemented).
If it turns out that fixers defence must be adjusted, so must MR be changed too.

[Enculeet]

Yeah, endgame, topgeared fixers are clearly OP against gimps.

yes indeed ENDGAME TOPGEAR fixers.

it's not because you get {Removed by Venachar: Do not use that word on the forums, ta.} by one or two ENDGAME TOP GEARED pvp twinks fixers are OPed or have too much defense.

yes of course, they're hard to hit when evades perks are up, it's the way of EVADE professions works, like MAs, shades, advies and crats (yes crats )

every professions have their toolset, some seems to have more than others, but it's just strong points vs weak points.

you can't just win vs everyone that's all.

[keitelo]

To be fair Shades have pretty damn good defense these days though.

You mean they are hard to perk when all evade perks are up and they go wtfSPLAT in the AS/nuke fest this game has become...

Also TL5 NR at 220 is totally awesome, a level 210 will root/snare you at will...

[Banuta]

I don't think I agree with that.
Ranged fixers without grid armor should be worse evaders than crats.

Ok, do we get a compensation, like Carlo?

In fact Fixers have quite low AR in return for their high evades. I would be fine with a snare and/or root nerf (just my personal opinion, others might disagree) but taking our evades would simply mean:
Fixers will be very easy to hit but will have a hard time hitting others at the same time, in addition to their average damage potential.

[navycut]

Don't fixers have about 3.3k AR? And abt 3.5k AR with LICC, more with evade debuff proc. That's not exactly low AR.

[Kain97]

the boost to fixers with the FA skill and FA guns was as far as i see it was a clear misstake considering how insanely hard it is to kill a fixer unless u are a NT.

You must be joking. Yes, atm, it's a little powerful with fast recharging AS and FA, but if you look at the long range plans... we're not gonna have AS forever. Stop looking at it as "awmigawd they have AS and FA, waaah" and realize we're just in the process of switching from AS to FA.

w/o MR its more or less impossible as an enf to kill a endgame fixer... well atleast unless u are very lucky with regular hits and perks.

Are you sure about that? Seems to me that enfs have all the tools necessary to be a fairly formidable opponent. You're virtually unrootable, you're just as fast (if not faster) than we are, and your regulars are likely to take fair sized chunks of our hp.

fixer is the only prof that is able to resist a MR alpha at times aswell.

I haven't tested but I thought that ability died with the launch of LE?

[Banuta]

Don't fixers have about 3.3k AR? And abt 3.5k AR with LICC, more with evade debuff proc. That's not exactly low AR.

I said "quite low AR". That doesn't mean that they have the lowest AR but not the highest also. That's fine as they're good at evading and thus they need a disadvantage. But if you take their evades they would need a compensation. Most likely they would need higher AR but that would mean that AO will become a game where every class is the same.

[navycut]

Are you sure about that? Seems to me that enfs have all the tools necessary to be a fairly formidable opponent. You're virtually unrootable, you're just as fast (if not faster) than we are, and your regulars are likely to take fair sized chunks of our hp.

And enf's can perk fixers without MR even. (50% and 0% perks ftl) and have SA. That's about 90% of fix's hp right there, add in dimach or a few regulars and... well you get the point.

[navycut]

I said "quite low AR". That doesn't mean that they have the lowest AR but not the highest also. That's fine as they're good at evading and thus they need a disadvantage. But if you take their evades they would need a compensation. Most likely they would need higher AR but that would mean that AO will become a game where every class is the same.

Heh MAs have about 3k static AR and much lower evades and much lower run speed and no snares etc and are melee

[Banuta]

Heh MAs have about 3k static AR and much lower evades and much lower run speed and no snares etc and are melee

That doesn't mean that Fixers are op but that MAs definitely need some love.

What *I* think is absolutely stupid:
whenever we meet a class we can't kill we ask for a nerf and when a class is weak we say everything is fine, except when it's our own class.
So instead of nerfing classes we should consider giving some love to other classes and from my point of view MAs definitely need MUCH love.

[IHaveHugeNick]

You mean they are hard to perk when all evade perks are up and they go wtfSPLAT in the AS/nuke fest this game has become...

Yes, they are hard to perk, cant be crited, and have nano heal drains, perk heal drains, healing swords and mini-cooon , yeah. Sorta like, you know, Advies.

Also TL5 NR at 220 is totally awesome, a level 210 will root/snare you at will...

Perk S&D and your problem is solved.

[bitnykk]

Thanks for the laugh though, thats a great one...

I lol'd.

constructive and pertinent posts, thanx ... why not make a rough comparison instead ?
let's not count what fix/sha DO have in common. eg : both got 80ish crit decrease perks and 1 min stance from careful/defensive

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=152000
add perks and fixers have around 650ish solid & 1550ish AAD
i don't count dof/limb/stance as shade got exact same (& GSF is castable on all so nothing specific)
= 2200ish bonus

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=151997
add perks and shades have around 850ish solid & 1050ish AAD
add to this 450ish of shade-only prox/baffs + 500ish target AR redux (wich matters to evade !)
= 2850ish bonus

conclusion : what fixer got in sweb 11 (w huge nanoskill cost and recast every 6h ...), shade got even more with draining/buffing perks. in the end, shade evade over 500+ than fixer !
what's so funny, now ?

nb : please note i'm no shade specialist, and i didn't considered skill base (and IP cost depending on skill colors). also consider than solid evade/dodge/duck is better than AAD ; & even there, shade got more consistent base. finally, do not forget we didn't speak about NR where only shade can dare perking repulsor (their nanos got low req, 1400ish) whereas fixer are dependant to their nanoskills for everything (upto 1800ish reqs).

[Taranide]

Perk S&D and your problem is solved.

You're right, killing rooter with S&D+alpha would pretty much end the life of a rooter. Now just give Reaver to shades please.

[Hacre]

You're right, killing rooter with S&D+alpha would pretty much end the life of a rooter. Now just give Reaver to shades please.

I'm sure he means perk SD as in Spatial Displacement.

Though I hear that's as viable for Shades as it is Keepers, that being, not very.

[Mountaingoat]

Yes, they are hard to perk, cant be crited, and have nano heal drains, perk heal drains, healing swords and mini-cooon , yeah. Sorta like, you know, Advies.



Perk S&D and your problem is solved.

If the shade can be crit'd he doesn't have perk heal drains and vice versa. A shade with heal perk drains has about ~3.1-3.2k evade close def rating static (dodge is 200-300 less). Heal perk drains check 100% and don't work on evaders. Heal perk drains are halved in pvp by default and reflects further nerf them (AMS luls). Healing "swords" heal 50-150 each hit. Or coon is 5k every 10 minutes. Spatial displacement is not a realistic option; fixers just need to perk nr8 and their NT problem is solved.

Advs have a similar def rating to shades, 10k coon every 2 minutes, MUCH more healing capacity, higher AR, and higher runspeed.

[IHaveHugeNick]

If the shade can be crit'd he doesn't have perk heal drains and vice versa. A shade with heal perk drains has about ~3.1-3.2k evade close def rating static (dodge is 200-300 less). Heal perk drains check 100% and don't work on evaders. Heal perk drains are halved in pvp by default and reflects further nerf them (AMS luls). Healing "swords" heal 50-150 each hit. Or coon is 5k every 10 minutes.

Aaand that's precisely a very , very solid defense given insane firepower Shades have.

[Parranoid1]

constructive and pertinent posts, thanx ... why not make a rough comparison instead ?
let's not count what fix/sha DO have in common. eg : both got 80ish crit decrease perks and 1 min stance from careful/defensive

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=152000
add perks and fixers have around 650ish solid & 1550ish AAD
i don't count dof/limb/stance as shade got exact same (& GSF is castable on all so nothing specific)
= 2200ish bonus

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=151997
add perks and shades have around 850ish solid & 1050ish AAD
add to this 450ish of shade-only prox/baffs + 500ish target AR redux (wich matters to evade !)
= 2850ish bonus

conclusion : what fixer got in sweb 11 (w huge nanoskill cost and recast every 6h ...), shade got even more with draining/buffing perks. in the end, shade evade over 500+ than fixer !
what's so funny, now ?

nb : please note i'm no shade specialist, and i didn't considered skill base (and IP cost depending on skill colors). also consider than solid evade/dodge/duck is better than AAD ; & even there, shade got more consistent base. finally, do not forget we didn't speak about NR where only shade can dare perking repulsor (their nanos got low req, 1400ish) whereas fixer are dependant to their nanoskills for everything (upto 1800ish reqs).

ok, 1, To perk the CiB line you have to sacrifice either your aad/aao drain line or ur TR line (thats +damage and also your health drain line), so yeah its not a super common thing to do,

2. Have u any idea at all wat the AR on that shade would be in that full evade setup, keep in mind that shade spirits give EITHER AR or Evades, not both, so that shade your talkin would have, without drains i would say 2.8k AR (rough guess) or lower.

3. Fixers, as shown in your equips there, can go full evades while losing little AR, as fixer symbs support both evades and AR without having to pick one or the other.

4.

add perks and shades have around 850ish solid & 1050ish AAD
add to this 450ish of shade-only prox/baffs + 500ish target AR redux (wich matters to evade !)
= 2850ish bonus

procs cant be counted couse of seriously unreliable, shade evade self buffs arnt anything special, and is actually LOWER then the fixer evade self buff.

5. Sws11 is the best back item in game, bar NONE (thats ingame that is) it is *THE BEST* back item. it lasts 6 hours, even on death, so yeah u can get CM or w/e to cast it, big whoop, it is still the best back item in game, and there is no debating that.

6. shades wouldnt go NR1 or higher because for any serious PvPing shade, SHD is a very very handy thing to have, and thats probably not gonna be easily castable with notum repulsor line.

7. your evade debuff dosnt count for as much as shades perk debuffs (of SP line), but ours have a 100% def check on them, so we needa be able to perk them in the first place to land them, not with ur evade debuff, and -240 or w/e is still a hefty debuff for being easier to use.

8.you would find almost no shade wearing that necklace, they would be wearing the xan neck items

9. ofab pants? your just clutching at straws now, any serious pvp shade would be in CC and ofab gloves not strong/ofab pants (SoS would be personal preference tho)

10.you put in a SUPPORT BETA into the fixer leg...? wat fixer would use support beta in an endgame fixer. they would use alpha artillery or even more so a evade cls/dodge ranged/heal delta leg imp ( for simplicity i put in alpha artillery in later equips)

I did you the liberty of altering those equips to a more realistic version of wat would be used, and for your sake i left in the blood-soaked cloak on shade, instead of ofab back like alot of pvp shades would use

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=152027
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=152029

also did perks, shade has TR line added instead of stance line, can alter if you wish:
Fixer:
Duck explosives 738
Dodge ranged 798
Evade close 828

Shade:
Duck explosives 661
Dodge ranged 686
Evade close 706

thats with full defensive alpha spirits in, and a still defensive equip overall

and lets not forget:

Shade:
Defense modifier 746

Fixer:
Defense modifier 1575

over DOUBLE the AAD.

buffs, shade has
Improved Prowler:
User Modify Duck explosives 60
User Modify Dodge ranged 60
User Modify Evade close 100

fixer has:
Blessed by shadow:
User Modify Duck explosives 150
User Modify Dodge ranged 150
User Modify Evade close 150

and again for ur sake i wont put in the dodge range % buff that fixer has, even tho there is an easy cast buff for 20% of fixer base dodge ranged, which you know, can be alot.

conclusion : what fixer got in sweb 11 (w huge nanoskill cost and recast every 6h ...), shade got even more with draining/buffing perks.

shade buffs are nulled by fixer buffs, and shade drains dont account for the same gain as SWS11.

conclusion: your claim that shades have better evades then a fixer is complete crap.

[Hacre]

conclusion: your claim that shades have better evades then a fixer is complete crap.

So as I said earlier, "I lol'd".

Thanks for the PM though bitnykk. Also thanks for saving me the bother Parra.

[mr_road]

regarding fixers, i just find it funny that the weapon combat profession with the highest defense rating has one of the best toolset's against other evade professions.

also, best evaders ingame now are shades ...

shade's can get very high evades against professions they can land SP drains on. if its an evader... forget it.

however, a shade with drains up will have less relative defense rating (due to AAO debuff) than a fixer has static defense rating and only against the drained target. same or a bit more if its a melee prof they are fighting.

Don't fixers have about 3.3k AR? And abt 3.5k AR with LICC, more with evade debuff proc. That's not exactly low AR.

yeah, fixers have high attack rating. especially when you factor in LICC, evade debuff proc, PO which removes evade perk buffs and more AR checking perks than any other prof. yes, it takes a while to get debuff proc or PO running, but with a fixers defense of evades + CC + kiting, its only a matter of time.

Yes, they are hard to perk, cant be crited, and have nano heal drains, perk heal drains, healing swords and mini-cooon , yeah. Sorta like, you know, Advies.
Perk SD and your problem is solved.

yeah. like advies but only if they have to choose between heals or evades or coon.

Aaand that's precisely a very , very solid defense given insane firepower Shades have.

with that reasoning, engineers should have either their defenses or the offenses toned down.

it is also a firepower which can be nullified by taking advantage of sync issues. any profession can effectively kite a shade. (yes, engineers suffer from this too).

[Mountaingoat]

Aaand that's precisely a very , very solid defense given insane firepower Shades have.

Shades work a lot more like a crat defensively than an adv, when it comes to taking damage. Resists alphas/perks fairly well, but relatively frail in longer fights. Advs can tank a steady stream of damage indefinitely, shades can't.