Endgame fixers.

[Wrangeline]

Endgame 220 fixers have waaay too much defense.

Discuss.

[MassDebater]

once they have decent lockouts on those !%@#%!@#% 20 min aoe snares i will be happy

[navycut]

They seem fine I dunno. They supposed to be the best evader out there. This is from a MA's pov though, idk if other profs can't kill them at all but I imagine only non trox keepers and shades are the ones they are immune to?

[schloops]

Not against casters .

[Armus]

No it's soldiers that have too little off.

j/k

I ran around with 4400+ ar the other day (with crat, keep and trader in team) and I still missed most fa's completely on this trox fixer that often frequents OA grid. The FA's that did hit was 1 bullet except one, so yeah they have a lot.

LE nukes made up for that ish. If those are going away maybe it should become somewhat possible to hit a fix outside AS, maybe.

[Wrangeline]

They supposed to be the best evader out there.

I don't think I agree with that.

With grid armor, yeah sure, because then they have to give up a lot of stats in the process.

These days though, an endgame fixer is just like a grid armor fixer except there's no drawbacks any more.

I also don't think fixers should be the best evaders since they:

1. Are ranged and have high runspeed. After the runspeed nerf, they will probably end up the fastest runners, like they were supposed to be, and then their ability to kite will go up even further.

2. They have snares and roots.

As I see it, the best evaders should be the ones without roots and without the ability to kite effectively. MA's for example should be better evaders than ranged fixers. Ranged fixers without grid armor should be worse evaders than crats.

Fixers have tools to use but their monster-defense makes these tools somewhat pointless at times and so they are often used just to prevent people from being able to move anywhere or such. Tools that are supposed to be used strategically to win a fight are not really needed for that purpose most of the time so they have all been assigned "annoy people"-duty instead.

[bitnykk]

MA's for example should be better evaders than ranged fixers. Ranged fixers without grid armor should be worse evaders than crats.

lawl, whatever. MA got one of the best melee alpha and they have decent heals when fixers have hots wich take time to effect. both are over average evaders but any skilled MA can kill a fixer within 5/10 Sec. also, best evaders ingame now are shades ...

crat AAD is a plus in their already really complete toolset. i don't see why they should evade better than now.

most professions have tools to counter fixer's roots/snares including NR & firstaid (i see lot of ppl resist my roots), and i see NO profession that can't kill me AT ALL (i talk for skilled and geared people ofc, not 210 green gimpz).

from my point of view OP things atm in PVP are :
- enfo alpha
- nt triple
- trader debuff
- adv defs
- doc heals (doc ! not adv/ma/agt/trad !)

[Armus]

What happend to you Wrangeline? I can't recall seeing you start whinetreads before.

It's not a whinethread. He has just discovered that the prof with supposedly the highest AR in game has next to no chance of killing the "best evader" even toe to toe.

[Dancingrage]

With perk changes a lot of perks and such that would normaly have whiffed on fixers won't anymore, thanks to AAD being taken off of NR checking perks. That alone will go a long ways to making some 'unperkable' profs more tolerable to go up against.

[Jekonam]

lawl, whatever. MA got one of the best melee alpha and they have decent heals when fixers have hots wich take time to effect. both are over average evaders but any skilled MA can kill a fixer within 5/10 Sec. also, best evaders ingame now are shades ...

And you can also say that any "skilled" fixer will just kite the MA.

[Wrangeline]

Yeah, endgame, topgeared fixers are clearly OP against gimps. Are your toons gimp?

What happend to you Wrangeline? I can't recall seeing you start whinetreads before.

No, not really. Are your toons gimp perhaps?
What a strange thing to ask.

You can call it a whine thread based on the tone I have in the OP (which admittedly is a crappy OP) but the general topic is not a whine. I'm completely serious about fixers having too much defensive rating and I don't say that because I just think fixers are OP. I say that for the benefit of the fixer profession as well.

I am one of those silly people that think professions stats should be balanced up against the tools and abilities they have. If you let a profession go completely overboard in one area (such as defensive rating) then you end up with a rock paper scissor system. Just look at all the "whine-threads" about trader toolset. There you see a clear indication of people who think FC went OVERBOARD in one area (gth, br) and now players want that toned down because those tools are not designed to fit with the tools that traders already have and because they hate rock paper scissor gameplay. Fixer defensive rating is overboard in much the same way. It just becomes rock paper scissor and with the future profession balancing patches I'm hoping we will be moving away from that crappy gameplay. I am aware that most fixers will go against me on this because of the sentiment "if it aint broke (for us), don't touch it!" but I don't really think like that myself. I try not to as often as I can.

So in that light, I'm raising the point that endgame 220 fixers have way more static defense than they need and if need be, they can get better HoT's or whatever to compensate. I want fixers to be very much viable but I want them to be viable based on all the tools that make them fixers. SUPER-evades was a grid armor thing so don't tell me that SUPER-evades has always been normal for a non-Grid-armor fixer.

The same goes for a lot of professions in AO. There's a lot of crap that needs to be toned down. Nanocost/nanoregen needs to be toned down and it seems to be toned down soon so no need for me to make a thread about that. BR and GTH is silly and needs to be toned down but everyone else have made threads about that already so I don't need to. Engie team blockers needs to be toned down a lot and last I heard, they would be so I don't need to make a thread about that.

And so on and so on.

No one talked about fixer defensive ratings though and that particular bucket is overflowing with water these days so I want that looked into.

Also keep in mind that anti-fixer stuff like nukes are being changed, AS is being nerfed and so on and so on. Keep that in mind please

[Wrangeline]

With perk changes a lot of perks and such that would normaly have whiffed on fixers won't anymore, thanks to AAD being taken off of NR checking perks. That alone will go a long ways to making some 'unperkable' profs more tolerable to go up against.

Hm yeah, it will be interesting to see what effect that will have. Not just on fixers but on everyone.

[Kain97]

The problem though is that in a lot of ways... if you can get past our def, we're toast. We have, I think, still among the lowest hp in game (and I don't mean the guys with no ip in body dev either), if not the lowest, and our method of healing needs either that massive defense to spread out the damage, or a considerable bit more hp to allow things like hots time to work.

Not to mention that if FC were to nerf our aad/evades, to a certain extent they'd have to rework pvm too... just look at how fast a sub-215 fixer dies in inferno if they pull agg on the wrong mob... there've been very few that don't go splat almost immediately in my experience. It's not like 220 fixers are master soloers by any means.

Add in perk changes and all the other changes that are incoming... I think any nerf atm would be premature.

[Dancingrage]

Hm yeah, it will be interesting to see what effect that will have. Not just on fixers but on everyone.

Personally I look forward to being the living scourge of any toon that relied a little overmuch on AAD previously to avoid Starfall perking...which is pretty much everyone, especially since NTs and MPs can get staggering levels of MC if they elect to go for it.

[IHaveHugeNick]

To be fair Shades have pretty damn good defense these days though.

[Drakeep]

No roots ?

Sorry if i didn't understand the joke, but :

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=56219

Also, aren't snares pretty cool, in the way they do the same job as roots do on 95% of the profs, but aren't affected by as much resistance as roots are (not sure about that one, tho) ?

[Moonbolt]

tbh in my opinion crats should be the best evaders in game since they have no heals at all.
fixers have hots, MAs have heals, advs have heals and shades have heals + health drains.
crats rely on healdelta only as far as i have understood it.
the boost to fixers with the FA skill and FA guns was as far as i see it was a clear misstake considering how insanely hard it is to kill a fixer unless u are a NT.
w/o MR its more or less impossible as an enf to kill a endgame fixer... well atleast unless u are very lucky with regular hits and perks.
fixer is the only prof that is able to resist a MR alpha at times aswell.
well anyhow.. with the net increase that is comming to runspeed for fixers compared to other professions, the removal of doubles/tripples it might end up that fixers are becoming more or less unkillable in pvp, it also might work the completly oposite with the NR def checking perks landing alot easier so that fixers will be alpha food for more or less any casting class.
i guess well have to wait and see.

[Parranoid1]

also, best evaders ingame now are shades ...

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=273350 Begs to differ.

[Autofil]

Bring a NT, the fixer's defense is as robust as wet toiletpaper to them.

[Kinkstaah]

Pretty sure I mentioned this being an issue as soon as fixers get a semi-decent reliable offence.

Their defence vs weapon users is massively OP, the 'fix' for them cant be to simply add offence, it'll make them as OP as they used to be.

"lols bring a nemesis profession!" isn't an answer. Ruining the fixers gameplay through triples doesnt make the game any more fun.