When your prof is underpowered, what do you do?

[navycut]

Survival is great and all, but if survival was ever more important than actually being able to kill other players then I suppose the number one 220 profession would be Fixer?

Adv survivability >> fixer and I'll let you connect the dots there about what the number 1 prof in pvp is.

[Parranoid1]

Question: Do you have 2s heal delta with this setup?

he would be very close id assume.

512 from atrox base, 227 from that equip + gom + base buff = 791 + city buff (is like 7 i think at that level) + possibly tower contracts.

thats enough for 3 sec HD and close to 2sec HD

First off no one said nerfest, the topic was underpowered. Shade = good damage and weapons, keeper = good damage, offense and weapons. Just because you cannot tank an enforcer on a shade in a duel does not make them the nerfest or most underpowered, it just makes the people using them for duels rather than ganking or suprise attacks dumbasses.

Also my experience > your trolling. I did the shade thing at tl5, and it is not nearly as bad as ranged adventurer. Survival is great and all, but if survival was ever more important than actually being able to kill other players then I suppose the number one 220 profession would be Fixer?

The minute you have to use a pair tl3 weapons on your 170 twink and have the only chance of killing people is hoping you outdamage their healing with a single special or hope they are green enough to be perk alphad with the same perks every tl5 profession is using, come whine to me about keeper and shade.

Tl5 melee advy has more survival than tl5 ranged, ranged can just kite and spam AS making towers slightly easier. Honestly navy do you know anything about tl5 professions or you think so many people say something you can get in a few troll points by trying to missquote me?

if your actually saying that ranged advy is more underpowered then shade at tl5, then wow :P experienced or not thats so wrong...

i play enforcer at tl5, equip in sig, and i had top ranged advys take me down from 16.8k hp to around 3-4k hm in their alpha, coupled with great heals, coon, evades....

i respect your twinking and such, but to actually make a claim that shade at tl5 is more powerful (as in less underpowered) then tl5 ranged advy is pure insanity.

ask any1 at tl5 which the most underpowered prof is at that level and they will say shade everytime. even if they feel their profession is doing bad they will always say shade is the worst off, because its true. ranged advy being worst is laughable.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Wear Kyr'Ozch Sword - Type 112 instead of ofab wolf for more AR (48 AAO proc).

I was using a 284 kyr 112 before I twinked the helmet on

Question: Do you have 2s heal delta with this setup?

I operate with 2s HD (currently triple implanted and sitting have a 183 HD)

@ gatester: i swap offense hud, sacrifical ensigns, I don't really have to option for heavy bracer atm, although I did use it fora while. I like having the hotswap for sac-ensigns (it swaps into right wrist)

I also use dalja ring of power/def setup during DOF when I'm trying to conserve HP.

I was considering going back to the kyr, because the 48-54 AAO is very useful, especially during those critical times with advies.

Unfortunately, thats the only time it really matters, so I'm not sure if it's worth it, considering that the wolf is melee dmg and alligned with all perk dmg. (except force opponent).

I might try it again. I'll also have to try insight again....

[haavarst]

I was using a 284 kyr 112 before I twinked the helmet on





I operate with 2s HD (currently triple implanted and sitting have a 183 HD)

@ gatester: i swap offense hud, sacrifical ensigns, I don't really have to option for heavy bracer atm, although I did use it fora while. I like having the hotswap for sac-ensigns (it swaps into right wrist)

I also use dalja ring of power/def setup during DOF when I'm trying to conserve HP.

I was considering going back to the kyr, because the 48-54 AAO is very useful, especially during those critical times with advies.

Unfortunately, thats the only time it really matters, so I'm not sure if it's worth it, considering that the wolf is melee dmg and alligned with all perk dmg. (except force opponent).

I might try it again. I'll also have to try insight again....

Only thing you need is a usefull hard hit.. equal AS or Sneak... Why are keepers the only profession removed from this ability? I mean.. we are experts on a huuuuuge blade! I vote for some head-chop-abilitys!

[Flyingengi]

Only thing you need is a usefull hard hit.. equal AS or Sneak... Why are keepers the only profession removed from this ability? I mean.. we are experts on a huuuuuge blade! I vote for some head-chop-abilitys!

There are 2he weapons with SA on them that you can hotswap if you want to.

[Hacre]

There are 2he weapons with SA on them that you can hotswap if you want to.

With utterly terrible damage ranges.

[Flyingengi]

With utterly terrible damage ranges.

Sorta like the one hander?

[Hacre]

Sorta like the one hander?

Good job the one hander isn't affected by ACs then, has a faster recharge and works with a completely different multiplier mechanic!

[Flyingengi]

Good job the one hander isn't affected by ACs then, has a faster recharge and works with a completely different multiplier mechanic!

Sounds like the problem is in SA mechanics, not the weapon.

[Kinkstaah]

To bad pvp doesnt change for keepers at 220. you just survive alittle longer. still cant kill anyone

Yeah, but the point remains is that the toolset doesnt show up until 220.

Sounds like the problem is in SA mechanics, not the weapon.

Mechanics are only as good as the weapons behind them. FA Mechanics didn't change, Soldiers just got a ton more AR and Dshark. Now "Fullauto" is good, but it didn't actually change at all since... pre-sl?

Same can be applied to 2he SA weapons.

[Gatester]

Adv survivability >> fixer and I'll let you connect the dots there about what the number 1 prof in pvp is.

Sorry, but Meep makes fixers the most powerful 220 profession in game, according to your criteria for number 1 profession being survival. Or is that actually stupid, sort of in a way similar to you commenting about profession survival in reply to my comments on profession offensive levels?

if your actually saying that ranged advy is more underpowered then shade at tl5, then wow :P experienced or not thats so wrong...

i play enforcer at tl5, equip in sig, and i had top ranged advys take me down from 16.8k hp to around 3-4k hm in their alpha, coupled with great heals, coon, evades....

i respect your twinking and such, but to actually make a claim that shade at tl5 is more powerful (as in less underpowered) then tl5 ranged advy is pure insanity.

ask any1 at tl5 which the most underpowered prof is at that level and they will say shade everytime. even if they feel their profession is doing bad they will always say shade is the worst off, because its true. ranged advy being worst is laughable.

Let me try breaking it down for what I can only call the reading challenged, or handicapped forums posters. I will say 15th because melee and ranged advy are seperate, and I have to clarify because I am sure someone would have tried to point out my counting erro like an idiot.

Defensive standing of ranged advy 2nd or 3rd highest (kiting).
Defensive standing of shades 15th.

Offensive standing of ranged advy 15th.
Offensive standing of shades NOT 15TH.

I do not care, I did not mention, and I am not referring to the defensive standing or survival of any profession in this thread asside from pointing out melee is better for duels and ranged is better for kiting. I am only concerned with the offensive abilities, the abilities that actually matter in pvp.

Now for tl5 twinks, lets do a little comparison and see who is better OFFENSIVELY.

Shade has:
Solid tl5 weapons to equip including PE, or SOFC for AS hotswap.
High DD perks in addition to Champion perks.
Decent AR, higher than a ranged adventurer.
AAD reducing perk that is useful at tl5.
Backstab and SA, high damage potential specials.
Stun procs, very important for alphas and mass pvp.
Solid regular damage and moderate runspeed to keep up with most professions.

Ranged adventurer has:
Tl3 Full Auto weapon with no support and ~1150 attack rating.
Low damage shotgun with Aimed Shot for main damage.
1 moderate DD perk in pistol mastery in addition to Champion perks.
Lowest AR of any infantry or artillery profession.
No evade reducing abilities.
NO STUNS on an alpha based setup.
NO regular damage.
Low special attack rating and crit scope reliance (init nerfing) for any viable AS damage.
High runspeed to chase down opponents.
A 50% heal efficiency debuff for doctors (heavy drain on nano and rarely lands, but it helps when it does).

Now, lets ignore the fact that your average tl5 twink will have 150 or more dodge ranged than evade close, and most troxes have wit of the atrox perked, with those facts above are you still going to argue with me that ranged adventurer offense is far superior to shades, and in fact several professions still? "1 time, last year, a ranged advy totally hit me with a good FA and AS at the same time!" does not mean anything anymore when that happening is now so rare on a decent player that I actually post it in org chat with a "OMG look what actually happened this week" quotes.

If any of you have ANY desire in all to replying to me again on this subject it better damn well be about offensive abilities of professions and NOT who can survive what. I am getting tired of having to explain myself to these false accusations and missquotes because you cannot comprehend simple english. I do not want to direct this all at you in particular Paranoid1 and I am going to go ahead and apologize if I get too carried away with you for when I have cooled off, however I am getting tired of doing this so often that you are getting the brunt of it and it goes out to everyone. I make odd setups and weaker professions work, many others do not, so when I say there is hope and there is possibility give me some credit as perhaps one of the most experienced "non-standard" setup players in AO.

[Armus]

Well if you have 2s hd I don't see what else you can do. Maybe plant a presence tower if you don thave that already for 60 extra attack rating. But thats about it. Keepers are as someone already stated without half their toolsets at that level. Changes have been suggested many many times but afaik there has been zero (!) response from FC on this topic.
I wouldn't hold my breath for a change if I were you.

[erozc]

You should know by now that keeper's not the only profession that has problems when facing profession X. This is similar to the "Nerf NSD, my soldier dies to engineers" problem. Most professions could make a number of similar whines particularly at TL5. Some are loved more than others. Advy is hardly alone out there on top of TL5 - so maybe try a more enlightened view next time please.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

You should know by now that keeper's not the only profession that has problems when facing profession X. This is similar to the "Nerf NSD, my soldier dies to engineers" problem. Most professions could make a number of similar whines particularly at TL5. Some are loved more than others. Advy is hardly alone out there on top of TL5 - so maybe try a more enlightened view next time please.

Aha! I completely agree! In fact, I'm well aware that I'm weak to ranged professions. It's in the keeper FAQ sheet. It says: DON'T SCREW WITH GUYS WITH GUNS!

well, shiz, I mean thats 3/4 of the population, so, ya I heard that one coming thru in stereo. BUT, i'd really appreciate it if my prof which claims to be ....

....


....

strong vs melee.. ....is....
..

...

...

........
IS ...


...
..
ACTUALLY strong vs. melee! holy crap!

who would've thought! that keeper might ACTUALLY be a decent prof vs the profs they are supposed to be good against. no. alarm. 7:00 AM. wake up.

Now, yes, I understand that advy is particularly strong defensively... but, why do they also have the STRONGEST melee weapons and weapon specials as well?

Why doesn't keeper, who is supposed to be the "masters of close combat" have access to a perk/weapon/weapon special/prof special that ACTUALLY does what is outlined in our prof description!

Wrath? LOOOOOOOOOOOL please, shoot me. I'm afk /wrist for a while.

[Ciex]

If you want to see what does it mean "hard to play at tl5" just roll a shade. You will see that keepers are really OP / easymode / godlike.

[navycut]

If you want to see what does it mean "hard to play at tl5" just roll a shade. You will see that keepers are really OP / easymode / godlike.

Nah apparently you need to roll a ranged tl5 adv to know what gimp is (according to gateser anyway) lewl

[erozc]

ACTUALLY strong vs. melee! holy crap!

You missed the point. You're weak vs. some, better vs. others, while some profs (the loved ones) do quite good against nearly anyone. Now the FAQ sheet could be thought of as saying "advys are jack of all trades, difficulty: easy" so there you go, they easily do well against anyone (though this perception isn't always true). Holy crap!

So, if you agree that keepers should be weak vs. ranged, how come you're obviously little difficulty with soldiers (except ubertwinked ones), ranged advies, ranged pet professions? It's in the FAQ sheet! Except it isn't.

[Gatester]

If you want to see what does it mean "hard to play at tl5" just roll a shade. You will see that keepers are really OP / easymode / godlike.

Hard to play would definately be the best way to describe Tl5 shade. While Shade is not completely gimp across the board, the fact that their survival is so low leaves them unable to make use of their offenses in most cases.

That said, tl5 shades are incredibly effective with support and as the second attacker.

Nah apparently you need to roll a ranged tl5 adv to know what gimp is (according to gateser anyway) lewl

Defensive standing of ranged advy 2nd or 3rd highest (kiting).
Defensive standing of shades 15th.

What I do not understand is how someone so dumb can actually use a computer...

Let me break it down for you, the only reason ranged advy is not the number one defensive profession is because they can actually be rooted, and then they can actually die. As long as a ranged advy is moving, however, he will not die. Add in a concealment boost because of CSS and he edges out melee advy by a hair, but juggles the spot because of max health and up close survival.

Shade, lacks any viable survival what-so-ever. Their evades are not high enough to be effective, they do not have enough conceal to hide from anyone with maxed perception, they lack the CC resistance to ever avoid rooters, they have absolutely no healing, they have terrible max health, and their only saving grace is the 5000 absorb, however with a 10minute lock and how common capping specials are, it is useless. Without survival, a shade cannot make use of their offensive abilities except against subpar players or with a lot of support.


Perhaps if you stop trying to get in little burns here and there to earn little stickers or however you reward yourself, you might realize that you offer nothing of value to any discussion. Although you seem to be getting better and better at lieing and distorting facts, perhaps you are planning on being a politician?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

You missed the point. You're weak vs. some, better vs. others, while some profs (the loved ones) do quite good against nearly anyone. Now the FAQ sheet could be thought of as saying "advys are jack of all trades, difficulty: easy" so there you go, they easily do well against anyone (though this perception isn't always true). Holy crap!

So, if you agree that keepers should be weak vs. ranged, how come you're obviously little difficulty with soldiers (except ubertwinked ones), ranged advies, ranged pet professions? It's in the FAQ sheet! Except it isn't.

Yes. I'm weak vs some (like: ranged advies and soldiers, traders, AS docs, Fixers, and agents) Anyone ranged, i'm weak against.

I'm better against: melee advy, enf, MA.

But, what is so bizarre, is that Ma, enf and melee advy are by far the biggest challenges, considering my supposed "relative" strength vs. them.

The reason I have little difficulty vs solds is that I accept my fate prior to the fight.

If I win a sold, I quietly congratulate him on the effort, while I reflect inwardly that there is a good chance that I just beat a subpar opponent.

But, I'm trying different things, vs solds, and agents, and other ranged profs.... like reflects, and outhealing dmg. which occasionally works.

Well twinked solds I don't stand a chance against. Thats fine. I know my prof is weak against them.

While I'd be satisfied with 20% win rate vs a equally equipped sold, I know that the chance is closer to 5%. I don't know what would go wrong for that 5%, but no doubt those might be mistakes rather than real wins.

Solds aren't the issue though. what i want is a 30-50% chance to win against advies. honestly... advies, in a half twinked setup are like 10-15% chance to win. They are just so ridiculously evadey, with way more healing than they need.

Ma's and Fixers aren't as big a problem as advies, because, obviously, the regulars do more damage, and the heals are less and less frequent.

If an advy didn't have enough nano for CH by the time dof went out, it would be a better fight. If they can spam 5 heals before phoenix, it's OP'd to be using a CH on top of that. thats my opinion. If advy didn't use a CH midway through fight, I'd say my fights would be closer to about 30-70 instead of 5-95.

If advy plays defensive, it's a 0 percent chance to win. If they try to kill me, and play dumb, then I can sometimes take advantage of low nano.

[navycut]

What I do not understand is how someone so dumb can actually use a computer...

I wonder that too from the posts I see you making all over the place that are just so loltastic.