Grand Theft Humidity and Drains

[sultryvoltron]

^ *signed*

Trader vs Agent duels are pretty darn close. Hence it must be... oh here comes the word that everyone are afraid of: balanced

The description of Lupus' duel sounds balanced to you?

[Szyylin]

Healing after GTH is actually possible with capped -cost, and good timing of a stim / sitkit / notum focus.

Yes it's possible, i have done it several times. But it's not reliable at all. not at all.

Just saying that before someone jumps on 'OMG AGENTS CAN CH WHILE GTHED NOW'

And even if you manage do to it, that's one single CH and you're back to the same situation as before

[Blackcradle]

Thats all very nice but it wasn't my point and I never said I ALWAYS get drained on the first attempt but I usually do. with 2.65k NR. And yes, you should always be predrained and traders are always predrained. And yes your divest is 90% check, oh and this is vs good traders btw not gimpy or semi gimpy ones.

I can't tell if your post is completely sarcastic or serious. I can only hope for the former unless you're hopelessly deluded. Also, enfs have way more NR than that (2.65k) while raged so I fail to see your point. I should always be predrained? Is that a joke? How the f*** can anyone always be pre-drained especially in BS. No, traders are not always pre-drained. And I know the divest check, oh and this is vs good pvp'ers btw not gimpy or semi gimpy ones.

[Tergx]

I can't tell if your post is completely sarcastic or serious. I can only hope for the former unless you're hopelessly deluded. Also, enfs have way more NR than that (2.65k) while raged so I fail to see your point. I should always be predrained? Is that a joke? How the f*** can anyone always be pre-drained especially in BS. No, traders are not always pre-drained. And I know the divest check, oh and this is vs good pvp'ers btw not gimpy or semi gimpy ones.

I have tested exactly what you are asking on test-live. One thing you must understand is that NR is weird acting, especially when you factor in FC's inherent "randomness". I have dual-logged many times on test-live to test this, my trader cast drins on my Enf while raged. The fact that my enf NR is much higher than my traders nano skills does not guarantee immunity. That's not the way anything works in this game. All it does is better my enf's chance at resisting, and that's exactly what happens.

With rage running, it is quite difficult to land plunder on my enf, but eventually it will land as that is the way chance works. Thing is, my enf is standing there and noone is attacking my trader so I have all the time I need to test.

People need to employ tactics, the same freaking tactics I use if I'm drained by a trader on my trader !!!!!!!!!! OMG *GASP* yes other traders get drained by other traders.

What I do, is have someone else attack the trader, or evade them so I can get to a point when I can drop aggro. Then I sit and use virus scanners, but they also wipe out any drains I have running, but oh well. Anyway, that's how it is.

[navycut]

I should always be predrained? Is that a joke? How the f*** can anyone always be pre-drained especially in BS. No, traders are not always pre-drained.

Plunder Skills (Nanite Improved) duration: 3 minutes, 30 seconds
Divest Skills (Nanite Improved) duration: 3 minutes, 30 seconds
There you go.

And I know the divest check, oh and this is vs good pvp'ers btw not gimpy or semi gimpy ones.

Yep Good for you that you know. Because it is 90% check and I've quoted my NR, now what's your nanoskills drained up?

[Armus]

And I know the divest check, oh and this is vs good pvp'ers btw not gimpy or semi gimpy ones.

The main problem with NR is that not many profs can do much about it. There aren't many items that add nr and many symb sets don't have it or have extremely little of it, while you can get tons and TONS from perks, symbs, le leves and items.

There is also a big imbalance between profs. My tl4 enf has about the same NR as my tl7 soldier does with hhab.

Ofcourse some random traders will now argue that the soldier is fine and the enf is op'd. But then I submit that a good trader usually lands one drain on teh first try. Usually as in more than 50%.

[Klod9001]

Seriously, with all the goodies traders got recently, GTH should not be just nerfed, it should be completely removed, after the balancing act of course.

It's simply NOT needed anymore.

[Boltgun]

Seriously, with all the goodies traders got recently, GTH should not be just nerfed, it should be completely removed, after the balancing act of course.

It's simply NOT needed anymore.

Maybe the best for everyone, traders to start with, is to update all the ransack, health drain, health transfer, AC... to make it short, all the lines. And then, delete all the nanos added from LE to now. (except my enemy's enemy maybe)

[Gatester]

People need to employ tactics, the same freaking tactics I use if I'm drained by a trader on my trader !!!!!!!!!! OMG *GASP* yes other traders get drained by other traders.

What I do, is have someone else attack the trader, or evade them so I can get to a point when I can drop aggro. Then I sit and use virus scanners, but they also wipe out any drains I have running, but oh well. Anyway, that's how it is.

WTB Nano Crystal (Warp Allies To Me To Kill This Trader, Because I Can't). Then again, I likely would not be able to use it after a trader drains me anyways.

[Tergx]

WTB Nano Crystal (Warp Allies To Me To Kill This Trader, Because I Can't). Then again, I likely would not be able to use it after a trader drains me anyways.

hah, no seriously, those that employ tactics successfully on the battlestation are the ones that consistantly win, and winning is the purpose. There are no points for the outcomes of a single 1 vs 1 scenario.

[Leevon]

greatest post ever about traders

[Avari]

People need to employ tactics, the same freaking tactics I use if I'm drained by a trader on my trader !!!!!!!!!! OMG *GASP* yes other traders get drained by other traders.

What I do, is have someone else attack the trader, or evade them so I can get to a point when I can drop aggro. Then I sit and use virus scanners, but they also wipe out any drains I have running, but oh well. Anyway, that's how it is.

This just shows you don't want to understand the problem. I couldn't care less if the trader lives or dies - I care about the fact that I have to spend more than a minute recouperating from a nano it takes little to no time to land on me. Even if the trader is killed within 3-4 seconds he's probably landed GTH regardless.

Landing GTH on a doctor is better than killing him. It takes longer to find a quiet corner to remove the debuff, regain nano and enter combat again, than it takes to get back in combat after dying. Effectively, that's the same as an instant death nano with instant cast and zero recharge. Worst thing is you know this, but refuse to admit it - just look at your own quote in my signature. It's just epic stupidity, that someone who's been his professions professional can't admit to this obvious fact, when a lot of people are coming together to make a serious effort at balancing the game.

[Tergx]

Seriously, with all the goodies traders got recently, GTH should not be just nerfed, it should be completely removed, after the balancing act of course.

It's simply NOT needed anymore.

now you are speaking/typing clearly, this is good. When GTH came out, I thought it was a weird nano that did not solve any problems the profession had, and it still does not contribute to that scenario. All it did was make taking on doctors/NT's easier, of which I did not need help with. GTH does nothing t stop someone from beating on you that does not need to cast nanos on opponents to win, like us.

BR is marginally effective at best, and it is dependent on a soldier being around that also casts AMS/TMS in my presence, and me having the opportunity to actually do something within less than 30 seconds.

I have pvp'd successfully w/o both of those weird nanos for years. At least YEEIYF is usable in PvM. Now drains I will vigorously defend since the drains are the core of our toolset, we fought years for what we have now. Don't like it? too bad. I won't budge on that, and neither should anyone else. I like GTH to cast on myself to quickly replenish nano pool, but that's about it. GTH and BR are just a crutch to rely on IMO, the trader profession needs other equipment than those, they're not worth the drama to be honest.

Now, that's not saying I agree with just removing them or nerfing them without any recourse, we should be given things that fit better with our toolset. A new root line, single and AOE, since the old one hasn't been updated since it was released in 2001. NR drains as well. GTH and BR follow the basic premise that traders drain what they need from other, just they are done in a way that is not exactly very helpful in the end, nor are they realistic. This is the way I have always posted on those subjects though.

[Avari]

Sounds to me like we agree then. Negative effects gets a nerf, and the positive effects stay the same. People have been saying that all the time. I've posted it just about every time there's been a 10 page GTH thread, and I think we've had a little more than a handfull of those by now.

[Tergx]

This just shows you don't want to understand the problem. I couldn't care less if the trader lives or dies - I care about the fact that I have to spend more than a minute recouperating from a nano it takes little to no time to land on me. Even if the trader is killed within 3-4 seconds he's probably landed GTH regardless.

no, I understand. I think there is alot of confusion about the whole nerf trader thing. It started with GTH, then BR got thrown in (both of which I never truely cared about), but now people are trying to throw nerfing drains into the mix. Screw that, we suffered for YEARS because drains were left to fester while everyone else got better. I took years to get good drains that are decent, at best IMO, but decent nonetheles.

So, if someone lops all that into one big honkin nerf post/thread, I will defend it all. Once someone throws the lame-o "nerf drains" stuff in there I'm in for the duration.

GTh and BR discussions by themselves I really don't care alot about.

This is just a misunderstanding between you and I.

[Avari]

I think you're right, that several things have gotten mixed up in this thread by now. You'll never hear me saying anything else than the trader profession needs some help. I don't know in what form, I just know that GTH wasn't the solution traders needed and it was game breaking for some of the professions on the receiving end.

If people start throwing in a nerf cry for drains you have my full understanding for refuting it. BR I simply can't be a judge of since I've neither played a soldier nor a trader in PvP.

[Marinegent]

Agent vs trader in normal PvP can go both ways depending on luck or a lack thereof. Agent vs trader in duel is another story as agents that know what they are doing have the advantage there.

Lupus, Srompu, and myself all know what we are doing. All three of us agree that agents are in bad shape when it comes to agent vs. trader scenarios.

Even if you think my input doesnt count for much (it should, but you are welcome to your own opinion) both of the agent professionals have clearly stated how against the odds a good agent vs. a good trader is...

Just consider that in your "balance".

[Gatester]

hah, no seriously, those that employ tactics successfully on the battlestation are the ones that consistantly win, and winning is the purpose. There are no points for the outcomes of a single 1 vs 1 scenario.

This is actually a very good point, the only unfortunate part is that this happens too rarely. Often enough on BS, there may be a zerg group running around working together, but there are 4 points of BS that need to be controlled and then the lifts themselves meaning 7 important areas every round.

Trader is taking huge advantage of a time in AO where there are not enough teammates to diminish trader effectiveness. I honestly wonder how traders would be viewed if every BS was 24 vs 24.

[lusthorne]

This just shows you don't want to understand the problem. I couldn't care less if the trader lives or dies - I care about the fact that I have to spend more than a minute recouperating from a nano it takes little to no time to land on me. Even if the trader is killed within 3-4 seconds he's probably landed GTH regardless.

Landing GTH on a doctor is better than killing him. It takes longer to find a quiet corner to remove the debuff, regain nano and enter combat again, than it takes to get back in combat after dying. Effectively, that's the same as an instant death nano with instant cast and zero recharge. Worst thing is you know this, but refuse to admit it - just look at your own quote in my signature. It's just epic stupidity, that someone who's been his professions professional can't admit to this obvious fact, when a lot of people are coming together to make a serious effort at balancing the game.

Of course you're neglecting to acknowledge the fact that if the trader gth's you, and the trader is killed, that gth is removed from you. So if you're traveling with a group instead of going rambo, you have a solution to preserve your nanopool. Not to mention that if the trader is killed in 3-4 seconds as in your example, and the trader landed gth on you in that time frame, it won't have had much time to drain nano off you before it's removed.

Calling gth an instant death nano to a doc is a gross over-dramafication. Last I checked docs still had perk heals to fall back on, as well as (theoretically) teammates to go after priority targets that can hinder your abilities. You know, tactics.

Plus once the trader is killed to remove gth, or gth expires, whichever comes first, it's not like you don't have nano refill options as well, via stims, chargers, hell even a perk if you have genius 2. Unlike NT's, your nanopool is not ridiculously large and tough to refill.

In either case, with gth gone, pop a stim and/or charger, and you have something to work with, even if you don't have a full nanopool.

While I will agree that GTH is over the top in its current state, it does not serve your purpose to exaggerate the effects on you. Further, in case you were even thinking it, yes, I do indeed have a 220 doc who has been gth'd.

[ameratsu]

gth really needs to be looked at..i have a 220 nt twinked out with some really nice gear..however one cast of gth and im just a spectator..it takes my offense and defense away..at least on other professions they can attack back...i dnt think its working as intended. which brings me to the gth/nbd combo..too overpowered and way more effective than the nt version which is supposed to be superior.,,trader can just absorb an insane amount of damage while i go fix dinner..i dnt mind the nano's concept its the way its implemented...way too spammable and not enough defenses for it in game..gth should be added to the notum repulsor perkline....and have a longer cast and recharge time...what is a trader's nemesis in pvp? no class can effectively kill them in one on one or team situations...why arent there any drawbacks to using many of the nano in a traders toolset? ams has a cool down and nts have nano depletion. Some drawbacks need to be add to make some of the nanos in a traders toolset more situational. All im askin for is a fightin chance..no skill involved at all in spammin gth and ASin someone to death. went nr2 setup with full jathos same thing. gth..AS..AS.AS..white screen.. running away would be stupid..may as well die and go to decon and get back to fightin with full nanopool.something needs to be done. ASAP