Grand Theft Humidity and Drains

[Blackcradle]

I do actually pay attention to how much times I counter divest and its actually not very often I do counter it (from a non gimp trader obviously) your nanoskills are very high predrained and divest has a 90% check as well so it does make sense that it lands often. I think your pm/ts is about 2800 or so when you drain up? Only prof that would reliably counter that is enfs I imagine.

Hi. I am a trader. I am always fully drained. All of my drains are 1/1 and have a 90% check. Apparently I also have 3k nanoskills as well, all the time.
Hi. I'm an enforcer. I never use my rage nano. Even if I did it wouldnt matter since according to my logs everyone lands everything on me anyway. Always.

At tl7 there are more than a few profs who resist my first drain. Good NTs, Enfos more often, and the occasional MP/Nr-agent occasionally too. You'd be suprised at how often it doesn't land @ tl7.

[Tergx]

I am sure FC developers are following this closely, as they are so hard at work, right now, even as we speak, on balancing 1-vs-1 pvp so duels will be more even...........oh wait, that's not right, I got confused with all the whine threads about how OP trader's are and forgot that when FC says PvP they mean MASS PVP, not 1-vs-1. These threads are all the same past the 1st page, if I were FC moderators I'd let em go too, keeps the forum monkeys busy

[sultryvoltron]

I am sure FC developers are following this closely, as they are so hard at work, right now, even as we speak, on balancing 1-vs-1 pvp so duels will be more even...........oh wait, that's not right, I got confused with all the whine threads about how OP trader's are and forgot that when FC says PvP they mean MASS PVP, not 1-vs-1. These threads are all the same past the 1st page, if I were FC moderators I'd let em go too, keeps the forum monkeys busy

Think about why Traders are one of the first profs to go in BS situations, right after docs. You HAVE to kill the Trader. If you don't, you won't be killing anyone while he stacks up drains on everyone. And then everyone is going to die.

@ lusthorne:

Go read Srompu's post. It also sums up quite well the views of most Agents, and probably some other profs as well. It's not so bad when you drain us (which does put many professions out of range of perking you). It's when you drain us, GTH us, drain us again, throw up YEEIYF, and determine the battle while we watch our toons die. At a certain point, there is no changing the outcome of a battle versus a Trader. What most people want is a fighting chance against Traders without having to MR gank them from sneak.

[Meliz]

nerf drains + gth plx

[srompu]

To be fair to Traders, they have a helluva time if they can't land drains, enfos suck, and 1v1 duels are much worse than BS in terms of having drains/AAD up. Mass PvP sucks in general when the zerg wants you dead, and Traders can't bounce back from a quick alpha like a Doc can.


I merely object to being cannon fodder for equally well set-up players in mass PvP situations with no "Ohcrap" button of my own. Fixer vs NT comes to mind, but they can outrun and/or evac.

Also, Lust is easily one of the best traders, and I've got a lot of respect for him and his playstyle, and last I heard he stomps agents just fine.

[Gatester]

I am sure FC developers are following this closely, as they are so hard at work, right now, even as we speak, on balancing 1-vs-1 pvp so duels will be more even...........oh wait, that's not right, I got confused with all the whine threads about how OP trader's are and forgot that when FC says PvP they mean MASS PVP, not 1-vs-1. These threads are all the same past the 1st page, if I were FC moderators I'd let em go too, keeps the forum monkeys busy

Not every 1 on 1 encounter is a duel, and it would do a lot of good if everyone would actually realize that. There are more times than not, when you run into someone while pvping it will be you vs someone else only, this does need to be balanced as well as mass pvp.

To be fair to Traders, they have a helluva time if they can't land drains, enfos suck, and 1v1 duels are much worse than BS in terms of having drains/AAD up. Mass PvP sucks in general when the zerg wants you dead, and Traders can't bounce back from a quick alpha like a Doc can.


I merely object to being cannon fodder for equally well set-up players in mass PvP situations with no "Ohcrap" button of my own. Fixer vs NT comes to mind, but they can outrun and/or evac.

Also, Lust is easily one of the best traders, and I've got a lot of respect for him and his playstyle, and last I heard he stomps agents just fine.

When Forz can't alpha a trader in a duel, I wouldn't say a good trader has a helluva time. I know it is bad to make situational generalizations based on single player encounters, but this is Forz ffs, the enforcer duel/alpha king if there ever was one. The only opportunity to kill another player should not be within the 1 second of the start of a fight where you try to queue every perk and special you have.

That is ofc a TL7 situation, yet traders will never seem to admit that a tl1-5 trader is completely overpowered. You do realize a 21 self buffed trader can kill a 49 dual tiig+CM enforcer by outhealing his regular damage and tanking him don't you? 52 traders are using Nanite Drains at tower wars and 165 traders are almost unkillable by most professions if they cannot resist the first drain or alpha them at the start of a fight.


Now before anyone misunderstands me and starts quoting things I did not say, I do not think a trader should be made more vulnerable without being given better tools to survive. I want a chance to kill a trader, but I do not it to be easy everytime I have that chance.

[Avari]

GTH is the same as ENSD with the small exception, that it's harder to remove, lasts longer, takes time to recouperate from and carries zero penalties for casting it (read: no attack/recharge time worth mentioning). Even in a team vs. team situation it's futile fighting it, seeing you can't prevent it from landing in the first place 9 out of 10 times.

Doesn't it bother the trader profession as a whole, that their role in team PvP is almost solely defined by how fast they can land GTH on the opposing doctor? After that people perceive everything else they do as a mere bonus.

[Solidair]

I like how the topic moves to "you guys are just a bunch of whining ppl", "us traders are not OP", "lol @ duels 1 v 1", "lol @ BS mass pvp, narf!"

In no means is this to be a whine thread. This is meant to explain that, GTH is one of the main concerns for Traders having more of an advantage than they should. Sure, still have GTH, just lower the time on it to maybe 10 - 15 seconds, and make it take 500 nano a tick, rather than 1000.

This is what normally happens, and what I have seen and experienced the most.

Even with trader drains on me, and I am GTH'd, if I can escape or kill the trader or he gets zerged. I try to run away and since GTH and procs are not removable, I have to try to get to a spot to sit and heal and wait out the last 30+ seconds I have on GTH and drain procs. Sure, there are many places that no one goes that I can sit, but most of the time, I have just came from a center of a battle with opposite faction side there, and by the time I try to get to a safe place, an enemy spots me and calls his friends, or just alpha's me. There is nothing I can do, because I am out of nano, and can't do much while still proc drained.

I do speak for the 75% of AO when I say that when I get the first drain landed on me, my toon is just about completely shutdown. I can't perk the trader, can't hit the trader, and by the time MR comes, the second drain is landed, same with proc, so MR doesn't work. Once I do get MR off, I just get kited and rooted. Again, lots of people aren't Atrox, so that whole MR part is not effective, so their just a zombie then.

With 2.3k AR on my shade, I was fighting a trader, MR'ed him to 1/4 HP with being kited, and root landed, the trader sat down, used some heals, and was soon back to full HP, while keeping me rooted. Back to the 2.3k AR, I then was drained of all OFF, and had -32 AR. I then became a beech leet.
Go figure.

Trader's are a fine proffession to play, not to go up against. As for a lot of proffessions are ussually around 100ish or less from their nano's they rely on to cast, and the first drain, drains 275, which takes that away. To use lower nano's is viable, but next drain, its another 275, so your our 550 nano skills, which is quite alot, to cast any buff or heal that would be effective at TL 7.

And lol @ 1 V 1 on trader. You think it gets much better? 1 vs 1 on a trader is far worse than BS, because BS you actually have a chance of someone coming to your aid or a zerg, or escape.

No, 1 vs 1. Traders dominate, because they don't have to worry about other proffs killing them. They can focus on crippling their opponent, and /afk. After 2 nano's, mongo rage is not viable for any proffession, unless the trader has low aad / evades.

Which brings me to my last point, why is it really necassary to have GTH take so much nano per tick, and have the duration be so long? Why do drains have to take so much skills away, along with AAO?

Maybe FC should gather up some character's, roam around in BS with each profession and try to conquer some BS, maybe then they will finally see our view point.

What i proposed earlier, was. Lower GTH - 500 per tick with a duration of 10 - 15secs. Drains should be - 175ish for each drain, so a total of 300 skills gone. Then give Trader's a shotgun buff. Like "Swat Patrol", Modifiers: 120 Shotgun | Add Damage: 50 | Aimed Shot: 50 | Fling Shot: 50.

Something like that would do the trick.

kthnxbai

[Shareida]

GTH is the same as ENSD with the small exception, that it's harder to remove, lasts longer, takes time to recouperate from and carries zero penalties for casting it (read: no attack/recharge time worth mentioning). .

It is always hilarious how those whine post completely ignore the fact that we can only disable ONE target per minute. ********* stop running around alone and get a doc. So either you OR the doc will have to suffer the discomfort of being OMG out of nano until the trader died. Ignorant brats.

oh yeah, again, for the reading impaired...

CASTABLE ONcE A MINUTE!

[Hacre]

It is always hilarious how those whine post completely ignore the fact that we can only disable ONE target per minute. ********* stop running around alone and get a doc. So either you OR the doc will have to suffer the discomfort of being OMG out of nano until the trader died. Ignorant brats.

I see you've reached the "anger" stage of grieving for the GTH nano that will either be taken away or considerably changed.

Move on to acceptance asap. I'm well over LE nukes going away and it's nice.

[Shareida]

I see you've reached the "anger" stage of grieving for the GTH nano that will either be taken away or considerably changed.

Move on to acceptance asap. I'm well over LE nukes going away and it's nice.

Heh I dont care GTH getting nerfed, I just care about the out of context arguments and false statements to achieve that goal.

As stated to LE nukes ages ago... I prefer loosing my nanopool instead of my HP instantly.

[Hacre]

As stated to LE nukes ages ago... I prefer loosing my nanopool instead of my HP instantly.

Spoken like a true biased Trader. In the majority of PvP situations, I can be back in the fight faster if I die than waiting for GTH to be over.

Still I imagine not that long until that's no longer the same problem.

[Blackcradle]

That is ofc a TL7 situation, yet traders will never seem to admit that a tl1-5 trader is completely overpowered.

Yes they will, and they have... for a long time... even before traders got recent love/upgrades/updates. Infact high level (tl7) had been doing the exact opposite of 'never admitting it' and complaining about the status of low-level traders because it hindered any high level progress going forward. Incase you don't believe me let me be the first to tell you, I have a trader and I do (think low level traders are overly strong). Then again, low level enfos/agents/nts are as well, so it's not as if they're alone on some low-level OP ivory tower...

Even with trader drains on me, and I am GTH'd, if I can escape or kill the trader or he gets zerged. I try to run away and since GTH and procs are not removable, I have to try to get to a spot to sit and heal and wait out the last 30+ seconds I have on GTH and drain procs. Sure, there are many places that no one goes that I can sit, but most of the time, I have just came from a center of a battle with opposite faction side there, and by the time I try to get to a safe place, an enemy spots me and calls his friends, or just alpha's me. There is nothing I can do, because I am out of nano, and can't do much while still proc drained.

So you're complaining about surviving versus multiple people and/or killing said trader and mad because you die when multiple opponents show up??

I do speak for the 75% of AO when I say that when I get the first drain landed on me, my toon is just about completely shutdown. I can't perk the trader, can't hit the trader, and by the time MR comes, the second drain is landed, same with proc, so MR doesn't work. Once I do get MR off, I just get kited and rooted. Again, lots of people aren't Atrox, so that whole MR part is not effective, so their just a zombie then.

How kind of you to speak for 75% of AO. Also, I'd like to add that I feel really, really, really sorry for your MR whore. An atrox MR hugging-shade complaining about a game breaking mechanic. How ironic. Boo-f***ing-hoo.

Trader's are a fine proffession to play, not to go up against. As for a lot of proffessions are ussually around 100ish or less from their nano's they rely on to cast, and the first drain, drains 275, which takes that away. To use lower nano's is viable, but next drain, its another 275, so your our 550 nano skills, which is quite alot, to cast any buff or heal that would be effective at TL 7.

You do realize traders whole role is to fill that exact purpose? Drain opponents so they can't perform optimally?

[XenonDe]

(...)ignore the fact that we can only disable ONE target per minute.

And you think it is fine to completely disable one target per minute with the cast of one nano?

Spoken like a true biased Trader. In the majority of PvP situations, I can be back in the fight faster if I die than waiting for GTH to be over.

Still I imagine not that long until that's no longer the same problem.

Actually that is what I do. /s kill me please and run into the zerg. Way faster to get back into action then removing debuffs and filling up nanopool again. Get's rid of the unremoveable 1 minute duration procs too.

[navycut]

Hi. I am a trader. I am always fully drained. All of my drains are 1/1 and have a 90% check. Apparently I also have 3k nanoskills as well, all the time.
Hi. I'm an enforcer. I never use my rage nano. Even if I did it wouldnt matter since according to my logs everyone lands everything on me anyway. Always.

At tl7 there are more than a few profs who resist my first drain. Good NTs, Enfos more often, and the occasional MP/Nr-agent occasionally too. You'd be suprised at how often it doesn't land @ tl7.

Thats all very nice but it wasn't my point and I never said I ALWAYS get drained on the first attempt but I usually do. with 2.65k NR. And yes, you should always be predrained and traders are always predrained. And yes your divest is 90% check, oh and this is vs good traders btw not gimpy or semi gimpy ones.

[Burgly]

Dont nerf traders :S I Wub them skinny bishes.

[Armus]

when FC says PvP they mean MASS PVP

That's something Sil said two years ago. Sil also blessed us with a number of "inventive" things such as orbital strike for instance, and LE nukes.
Both of which are either fixed or will be fixed. So it's probably quite safe to assume that stuff that got ig back then or were said back then are not set in stone.

[Lupusceleri]

So you're an Agent who wants to kill a Trader. You make sure you've got a decent AR setup and put on a scope.

1. Alfa Tradzor

Addendum: Trader has recently used GTH, and uses NBD to suck up perk damage if needed. GTH can be used on self to receive nanobuff but not debuff.

2. OMG DeeDee Tradzor
YEEIYF, healdelta, and single heals easily beat out Agent damage once the Agent is drained or CPed. NBG, RRFE, slow Agent perks, and awful Agent regulars keep the Trader in gravy while he does that.
You won't perk after any drain, and you won't be able to root, deroot, or heal after GTH. In this section your damage goes from "close" to "lawl".

Healing after GTH is actually possible with capped -cost, and good timing of a stim / sitkit / notum focus. Healing after drains is not, unless you are using an outrageous nanoskill setup.

3. Outlast Tradzor
Lol.

Actually, been there tried that a few times, since the "lol just alpha the trader" tactic does not work. Failed badly. Duel, no GTH used on Agent, lasted for around 5 minutes until the Trader alpha'd the Agent from non-full hp using Shutdown Skills creatively to prevent CH.

When you, without any greenies around, in an AR setup, catch a non-NM Trader alone, un-CPed, without RRFE, without SS/MotR/HH@B up, and you land BE first try and get lucky, you win.
Balance! *cymbals*

Spot on Srompu.

[Strupstad]

^ *signed*

Trader vs Agent duels are pretty darn close. Hence it must be... oh here comes the word that everyone are afraid of: balanced

[Wrangeline]

Agent vs trader in normal PvP can go both ways depending on luck or a lack thereof. Agent vs trader in duel is another story as agents that know what they are doing have the advantage there.