Rethinking CB?

[heartless888]

That's retarded on so many levels. NT's don't use cb on soldiers for the simple reason that they don't need it.

they do actually, all the NTs uses CB on my soldier every single time, ofc now NTs cant do anything to me but still, trust me, they do, why? because they dont have the brains to use diferent strats against diferent classes, they pretty much all press the exact same 2-3 keys over and over against every single class, so yeah they CB even solds :P

[ameratsu]

they do actually, all the NTs uses CB on my soldier every single time, ofc now NTs cant do anything to me but still, trust me, they do, why? because they dont have the brains to use diferent strats against diferent classes, they pretty much all press the exact same 2-3 keys over and over against every single class, so yeah they CB even solds :P

no different from ams>FA>Burst

[Parranoid1]

well its not practical for an nt not to be able to nuke u.

yeah, it is, and its also impractical to perk NR8, im not seeing your point here.

@parannoid : I really would like to see a justification to the existence of an item giving perma +500 def vs a few professions' toolset... As well as the justification for the non-existence of an item giving +500 AAD or Evades as its counteperpart. Same for Notum Repulsor perkline and its lack of counterpart.

i would really like you to justify the ability for the NT to be able put 90%+ of profession's nanoresist into the negatives in a very short amount of time, where is the counterpart to CB that remves 3k worth of other defences?

y not alter CB to the same rough level as the fixers debuff, like -250, make it stackable twice, not hugely spammabe, 1sec capped cast time 3-3.5 secs or something recharge, so u wont have crazy OP NR debuffs and u can remove the effects of HH@B, all happy yay yay?

[MassDebater]

@parannoid : I really would like to see a justification to the existence of an item giving perma +500 def vs a few professions' toolset... As well as the justification for the non-existence of an item giving +500 AAD or Evades as its counteperpart. Same for Notum Repulsor perkline and its lack of counterpart.

Maybe because you have nukes that are 90% nr check, and dont check vs aad.

[heartless888]

no different from ams>FA>Burst

actually, its very diferent, AMS burst FA alone will ONLY kill non healing greens and very low lvl advies, thats it, you wanna test this? i dare you to


use an NT and use CB CB then press double over and over and see how fast the fixer or shade or advy or MA dies

now do it with a soldier, press AMS then burst and FA over and over, fraps it and come back to me

[Graftmage]

use an NT and use CB CB then press double over and over and see how fast the fixer or shade or advy or MA dies

Advy won't die to double spam, shade and MA will just kill NT if not rooted, fixers are capable of alphaing NTs too, just need some luck with AS and FA.

[ninst]

use an NT and use CB CB then press double over and over and see how fast the fixer or shade or advy or MA dies

CB + double spam will ONLY kill non healing greens, crats and hecknoob soldiers. Try this on a decent shade/adv (lol)/MA and you will find yourself in decon. Even fixers can survive and kill triple noobs. Unlike soldiers, NTs dont have 1:20 min god mode against most professions (1v1), we actually die a lot.

All your whining is pointless anyway, it has already been said that LE nukes will be removed and CB most likely toned down. Hopefully after rebalancing NTs wont have to fill the role of soldier nemesis. ALL professions should be able to kill soldier with AMS up just like evaders can die with evade perks up.

[heartless888]

CB + double spam will ONLY kill non healing greens, crats and hecknoob soldiers. Try this on a decent shade/adv (lol)/MA and you will find yourself in decon. Even fixers can survive and kill triple noobs. Unlike soldiers, NTs dont have 1:20 min god mode against most professions (1v1), we actually die a lot.

All your whining is pointless anyway, it has already been said that LE nukes will be removed and CB most likely toned down. Hopefully after rebalancing NTs wont have to fill the role of soldier nemesis. ALL professions should be able to kill soldier with AMS up just like evaders can die with evade perks up.

huh whos talking about them fighting back? we are talking about pure killing, i dare anyone to fraps and do this, i would if i had a 220 NT but i dont, your only defense about it is that the target could kill the NT instead? come on, show me a shade that lives through double spam, they cant unless NR8, same with fixers and MAs, where as fixer MA advy etc can outheal burst FA like its nothing

so if nobody with an NT wants to do it i rest my case, you guys KNOW all those people will die to double spam and wont to burst FA only spam, i cant stress the *only* part enough

[Klod9001]

CB + double spam will ONLY kill non healing greens, crats and hecknoob soldiers.

CB + double spam will kill everyone but agents, advs and docs. Even agent that didn't work on nanoc. init a little, might fall down easy enough, because of DWL.

[Ixiaan]

CB + double spam will ONLY kill non healing greens, crats and hecknoob soldiers. Try this on a decent shade/adv (lol)/MA and you will find yourself in decon. Even fixers can survive and kill triple noobs. Unlike soldiers, NTs dont have 1:20 min god mode against most professions (1v1), we actually die a lot.

There are these cool nanos called IW and NBG that pretty much let you have 25s of double spam without fear of dieing. You should try them out sometime.

[ninst]

As for professions mentioned, MA/fixer/adv can run away and wait until NBG is down (advs dont have to). For shade its a little bit more tricky since they usually cant afford to put perks into SD. They will probably die just like me when shade pops behind my back.

If you are just standing in place and counting CBs and doubles from NT you may actually die, sorry. Doing nothing is not a good strategy against NT.

[Parranoid1]

As for professions mentioned, MA/fixer/adv can run away and wait until NBG is down (advs dont have to). For shade its a little bit more tricky since they usually cant afford to put perks into SD. They will probably die just like me when shade pops behind my back.

If you are just standing in place and counting CBs and doubles from NT you may actually die, sorry. Doing nothing is not a good strategy against NT.

i believe wat heartless was talking about was reliableness and effectiveness in killing for cb/LE nukes as opposed to FA/burst.

those opponents Vs le nukes/CB and those opponents Vs FA/burst, which of these would kill them sooner and with more ease.

not talking about in the real world, or running or attacking the NT, based purely on killing power.

and in these cases cb/le nukes would win hands down, because of the lack of check on aad and also the low defence check on CB with its huge debuffing Vs the normal checks and unreliableness of FA/burst on these opponents

[Hacre]

i believe wat heartless was talking about was reliableness and effectiveness in killing for cb/LE nukes as opposed to FA/burst.

those opponents Vs le nukes/CB and those opponents Vs FA/burst, which of these would kill them sooner and with more ease.

not talking about in the real world, or running or attacking the NT, based purely on killing power.

and in these cases cb/le nukes would win hands down, because of the lack of check on aad and also the low defence check on CB with its huge debuffing Vs the normal checks and unreliableness of FA/burst on these opponents

Not much point talking about theory if you're going to dismiss real world facts.

Especially when conveniently forgetting the shift in kill power when you move from low HP targets, to higher HP targets, where Burst/FA starts to OD LE nukes.

[Parranoid1]

Not much point talking about theory if you're going to dismiss real world facts.

Especially when conveniently forgetting the shift in kill power when you move from low HP targets, to higher HP targets, where Burst/FA starts to OD LE nukes.

if u feel u must bring in real world facts then lets throw this in there, NTs have roots and blinds, soldiers dont have anything to stop the other from running

NTs, once nuke is cast, continues to land/execute on a target even if its run around a corner, soldier has to have direct LOS to hit FA/Burst

HP profs in pvp being Doc, enfo, keeper, soldier. of those both NT and soldier have trouble with docs. soldiers are better vs enfos and maybe keepers, but they are more evadey then enfos and not quite as easy, and which do u think is better at fighting soldiers....NTs or other soldiers.

so in 2 instances of high hp profs soldiers would out perform NTs, and 2ish profs soldiers and NTs would have similar difficulty, the rest are mid-low ranges of HP and higher evades where LE nukes/CB will fair better

[Hacre]

You'd have a point about LoS, if Burst/FA had execution time.

To start a nuke: Target must be inside LoS.
To "start" Burst/FA: Target must be inside LoS.

So enough with stupid comparisons. Especially when you're bringing in LE nukes which are going away, CB which will be changed, whereas FA is only going to be improved and so far nothing is changing about Burst.

[Parranoid1]

So enough with stupid comparisons. Especially when you're bringing in LE nukes which are going away, CB which will be changed, whereas FA is only going to be improved and so far nothing is changing about Burst.

wat about the roots and blinds for real world comparisons, or the HP comparisons i put forward, your reply to those?

as for LE nukes being removed, that shows that in their current state they are stupid, and CB being change may be for the same reason, whether or not it will be seriously nerfed i guess we dont know.

[navycut]

NTs, once nuke is cast, continues to land/execute on a target even if its run around a corner, soldier has to have direct LOS to hit FA/Burst

omg seriously why why why does everyone complain about this, I hate a lot of things about NTs but this is wtf?

If you press burst/fa/queue up perks they WILL land, so if you start a nuke what, you expect it to not land? NTs can't 'nuke' around corners, they need to start the nuke in LOS.

Why can't ppl grasp this simple concept?

[Hacre]

wat about the roots and blinds for real world comparisons, or the HP comparisons i put forward, your reply to those?

as for LE nukes being removed, that shows that in their current state they are stupid, and CB being change may be for the same reason, whether or not it will be seriously nerfed i guess we dont know.

Roots are inconsequential and blinds are too. Soldiers fare better against all the high HP professions you cited in comparison to NTs.

That's my reply to those. So you're still wrong.

[Klod9003]

omg seriously why why why does everyone complain about this, I hate a lot of things about NTs but this is wtf?

If you press burst/fa/queue up perks they WILL land, so if you start a nuke what, you expect it to not land? NTs can't 'nuke' around corners, they need to start the nuke in LOS.

Why can't ppl grasp this simple concept?

It obviously doesn't working as intended. Game mechanics for that actually exist - "Target is teleporting" message. The concept is to allow possibility to escape such encounters, by using LoS. If I get out of LoS in the meantime, it should count as miss.

There's the same problem with certain perks as well. But all this is a theme for some other discussion.

[navycut]

Nearly everything a NT has is cast capped, it'd be kinda lame to avoid everything like that.