New TL7 Trader drains...

[Saetos]

Well, now with UVC out of the picture for non-MAs and the fact that we have 15% scopes in game, perhaps ELLTS can make a return trip to the mainland.

[Kinkstaah]

Drains are more effective at shutting people down now than they were pre-sl.

[styles999]

Dont give my UVC away please. IF anything AGENTS should get access, but they already have a crit line.


but for the record, yeah "Both" drains are OP, when im hit with 1 drain, ya it sucks im nerfed back to pre-200, but with both im nerfed back to 150-160ish damage wise, which is laughable at tl7.

generally since im a non-nr type player, i run from most traders, nt's and doc's. unless i think i can get a fast alpha off and land normal crits(which now days with all the -crit items my +crit items are just about null/void)

[Stinnipeng]

Dont give my UVC away please. IF anything AGENTS should get access, but they already have a crit line.

As an agent, I feel that UVC would be rather an over-the-top kind of useless nano, since we allready crit two out of three shots...

[Tergx]

Drains are more effective at shutting people down now than they were pre-sl.

hah.....sure, maybe with a non-froob trader against a froob

[Infamine]

Nah ellts and uvc went away, so be it, no point in taking them back, leveling and pvm was made easy enough anyway, and in pvp, cant say anything atm...

@kink, drains hurt more ? as in ar loss ? explain what you mean, i think i see but i'm not sure we're talking about the same thing

@all, come on, if traders and drains were as overpowered as you're almost all saying they are, everyone and there mom would have a tl7 trader to pvp with... and as far as i can see, theres not so many, maybe theres a reason, and no, its not because it takes time to lvl =P

[navycut]

@all, come on, if traders and drains were as overpowered as you're almost all saying they are, everyone and there mom would have a tl7 trader to pvp with... and as far as i can see, theres not so many, maybe theres a reason, and no, its not because it takes time to lvl =P

Does everyone have a tl7 ranged adv to pvp with? No? Then that point is invalid.

[schloops]

@all, come on, if traders and drains were as overpowered as you're almost all saying they are, everyone and there mom would have a tl7 trader to pvp with... and as far as i can see, theres not so many, maybe theres a reason, and no, its not because it takes time to lvl =P

Most rk2 clan that goes often to the bs has a 220 trader now... it's that bad.

Which never happened with nts... even though we are cheaper than traders.

[Maxisolja]

@all, come on, if traders and drains were as overpowered as you're almost all saying they are, everyone and there mom would have a tl7 trader to pvp with... and as far as i can see, theres not so many, maybe theres a reason, and no, its not because it takes time to lvl =P

You forgot the fact that traders are also horribly painful to level in comparison to other professions.

[Infamine]

Mhm well, i dont want this to turn to a trader hate thread, so nvm what i said...

[schloops]

Mhm well, i dont want this to turn to a trader hate thread, so nvm what i said...

Since the whole pvp is being changed, there isn't much reason to argue about this or that profession, you are right... on the other hand, we are here because we love arguing .

[Lheann]

@Infamine

If a TL7 trader gets buff drains off on my MA I go down to pre 150 levels of AR. I loose all my SL heals and am stuck with the RK heal which is a joke. I can't perk I can't hit and I can't cast. Consdiering both of those can be gotten off before I get in melee range anyway pretty much ensures I die.

I see at least one or two traders every run of the Battle Station on each side. I cannot remember a run this last year that I have not been drained once or twice every round at both TL5 and TL7. This is on RK1.

Of all the tool sets out there Drains are really very powerful. A trader can run around and drain everyone and then let their team mates crush them. This is good use of the tool set and what I think may have been the original plan. But as it stands today they just make me scream.

[Marinegent]

As an agent, I feel that UVC would be rather an over-the-top kind of useless nano, since we allready crit two out of three shots...

In pvm in a top crit setup maybe.

UVC would be nice for putting our crits up in pvp setups for use during pvp. I almost never crit in pvp, which is wrong considering we have the second highest crit rating? (3rd maybe?)

[Voyvovoy]

Some profs are useless after 1 drain alredy and you want more? o_O

[Hacre]

@all, come on, if traders and drains were as overpowered as you're almost all saying they are, everyone and there mom would have a tl7 trader to pvp with... and as far as i can see, theres not so many, maybe theres a reason, and no, its not because it takes time to lvl =P

Traders are horrible to level, these days unless you have friends that will drag you along and some pocket love.

hah.....sure, maybe with a non-froob trader against a froob

Actually he has a point. Pre SL regular hits and specials mattered more, people didn't pack symbiants that gave all evades and aad in each slot along with masses of aao and triple implanted weapon skills to boot. Now, where perks matter a hell of a lot more than regulars/specials, drains are arguably more crippling, since perks are a flat pass/fail check.

@Infamine

If a TL7 trader gets buff drains off on my MA I go down to pre 150 levels of AR. I loose all my SL heals and am stuck with the RK heal which is a joke. I can't perk I can't hit and I can't cast. Consdiering both of those can be gotten off before I get in melee range anyway pretty much ensures I die.

I'd be very surprised if Traders have an easy time landing anything other than Divest against a well set up PvP MA. I highly doubt Divest turns you into a TL5 toon.

[Kinkstaah]

hah.....sure, maybe with a non-froob trader against a froob

Whta are you on about? Trader drains **** people sideways at TL7 now. Pre-SL, as a percentage they may have taken more skills, but you could still have a fighting chance vs a trader if you were drained, or even double drained.

Now? No chance. Then? Yeah. They drained your abilities, not disabled your abilies. As Hacre said, youd still land reg hits, and those would matter - You just wouldnt land as many.

And it wouldn't be like now, where being drained menas you cant perk the trader, which means your damage may as well be zero.

@kink, drains hurt more ? as in ar loss ? explain what you mean, i think i see but i'm not sure we're talking about the same thing

As above.

Drains could use a nerf, I think both drains now should add up to what a single divest does. Or better yet, just remove drains entirely and let traders use CP - Which has the same effect as a drain, it just doesnt reduce the target's gameplay to a shuddering mess of /rage.

However the issue *really* isnt drains as much as it is the effect of being perkable/non perkable for a class that has decent healing (when it is unperkable).

In any case, traders have never been better off than they were now, especially pre-sl where they were good, deadly (nerfmeee for example, abid, etc) but fighting them was fun and challenging, and could go either way if they drained you or if they DIDNT drain you, unlike now.

[Tergx]

you have nothing to add except the ubiquitous "nerf traders" idea that has been going on since the game launched. The nerf trader crowd had their day when shadowlands launched, now is a different time.

Really though, the drains are supposed to make opponents less efffective. that is our defense, but it only works against the target we choose to try and land drains on. As soon as their is an AOE drain (which would be fun) then your argument may hold some weight, other than the same old worn out nerf cry.

Nerfs are always selfish and one-sided and do nothing to improve this game.

Whta are you on about? Trader drains **** people sideways at TL7 now. Pre-SL, as a percentage they may have taken more skills, but you could still have a fighting chance vs a trader if you were drained, or even double drained.

Now? No chance. Then? Yeah. They drained your abilities, not disabled your abilies. As Hacre said, youd still land reg hits, and those would matter - You just wouldnt land as many.

And it wouldn't be like now, where being drained menas you cant perk the trader, which means your damage may as well be zero.



As above.

Drains could use a nerf, I think both drains now should add up to what a single divest does. Or better yet, just remove drains entirely and let traders use CP - Which has the same effect as a drain, it just doesnt reduce the target's gameplay to a shuddering mess of /rage.

However the issue *really* isnt drains as much as it is the effect of being perkable/non perkable for a class that has decent healing (when it is unperkable).

In any case, traders have never been better off than they were now, especially pre-sl where they were good, deadly (nerfmeee for example, abid, etc) but fighting them was fun and challenging, and could go either way if they drained you or if they DIDNT drain you, unlike now.

[Infamine]

Drains removal ? come on thats overkill, drains have always been there, it's what makes trader unique...

Also, i'm mainly talking mass pvp, as in towers, open world, not ratcage pvp...

If you're in a team where everyone gets debuffed by one trader, then i suggest changing team, because obviously they're not pvp material and should stick to pvm...

I can understand how frustrating it can be to lose perk effectiveness, but dont blame it on the drains, rather on the perk design itself, i actually have a proposal :

Change the way perks work, so that when someone is drained, it doesnt make him unable to perk someone, but it lowers the actual effect of the perk, ie divest in perk @ 85%, both in perks @70%

That way, being or not being drained would leave people with some options...

But, i'm totally against changing the effect of drains on the weapon skills, its the way a trader fights, offense is our main defense, and should stay that way.

Also i fought Abid with my soldier countless time one on one as we were both trying to figure out ways to kill each other with different setups, drained, not drained, predraining or not, with me giving him rrfe or not, etc... and i can say at one point we ended up not being able to kill each other no matter how hard we tried, just to say, theres alway a way to deal with things...
Now maybe some people feel like drains as they are atm, are like what eqb was (reg hits hurting as much as other weapons critical for the one that didnt experience it...) but thats because of the way the game is designed, not the drains themselves, hence the proposal i made...

[navycut]

I'd be very surprised if Traders have an easy time landing anything other than Divest against a well set up PvP MA. I highly doubt Divest turns you into a TL5 toon.

It's does actually make you pretty useless, and the trader is likely to be kiting anyway. Also against 2.65k NR, divest lands about 80% of the time, probably because traders have like 2800-3k nanoskill AR though I believe. So even without plunder you are just a walking pile of useless MA (against a top trader anyway, the gimp/semi gimp ones you can still kill easyish ) one drain gets a MA's already low AR down to the gutter and in NR1, you can imagine what kind of worthless heal we can use when our nanoskill plummets too.

[Tergx]

where in the pvp argument is the notion that anyone should be immune to the effects of being attacked by someone, whether it be damage or negative effects. It's hilarious. Words like "useless" and "overpowered" are thrown all over the place out of context.

break it down to a more simple level, since the whole purpose of pvp battle is to defeat (kill, immobilize) the opponents. If you're not dead, then your still potentially useful. If you're dead you are not.

Of course, deep down, we all know what the true reason is, it's basic psychology. Each nerf argument is tied to a reason that the player making the argument want something nerfed so that they can win more easily themselves. We all do it