OK, let's talk about new stuff

[Kinkstaah]

You are so full of yourself... let me start by saying that you were kicked from the professional program TWICE.
So maybe your fightning style hasn't been the most rewarding? Please don't present yourself as the ultimate professional.
In the end it is funcom making the decisions and not the professionals. Good and constructive feedback is everything.

Yeah, I wonder what my good constructive feedback got me, oh wait.
Lets look at those updates that match the exact feedback I put out there!

And my exits from the professionals program were actually never mentioned to me, though I heard rumors from people who werent supposed to be giving rumours. But I hardly think this is a topic for the forum.

Point was though - nothing wrong with standing up and fighting for the class, which is what we clearly need. Good to see the rest of the community is and lets hope our pro's pass it on.

We have so much more than our alpha and our run speed... we are doing more than fine atm.
It's never fun to see the nerfbat coming your way.. but playing the victim isn't going to make it hurt less.
What could work is being realistic and constructive.. two things you really have to work on.

Nah. - That is pretty much what enforcers have, it is the element of the class and has been since the game was released in 2001.

Our end goal is to put all the professions on an even playing ground again. To get AO to a place of balance that it hasn't seen since before Notum Wars was released

Did you even play the game back then? I did, and I'll tell you that the balance now is actually better than the balance was then - People are just looking back with rose coloured glasses, there were many classes that were just BAD in PVP back then (crat, MA, MP, adv) come to mind.

Having to wait an extra 5-12 seconds (at most) to rage again is hardly game breaking to us. It is a minor inconvenience.

5-12 seconds is the difference between life and death multiple times per round. Many multiple.

I think he means what I meant. If you look at the other threads in other profession forums, there's a -lot- more meat.

So either, Obtena omitted the meat.
Or FC omitted the meat.
Or FC didn't have the meat.

Or all the meat is included, and thats whats being planned.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

stuff...

and

5-12 seconds is the difference between life and death multiple times per round. Many multiple.

Dude, you are out of line. When it takes 5 people a concerted effort to take down an enf, I'm sure you're overstating your omg-I'm-nerfest ness.

Seriously. You think enfs are squishy? Enfs are usually the last called targets in any pvp where there are callers, and in any other pvp situation, it takes even high DD classes a couple of minutes to take down a well setup enforcer.

Your cries about 8-12 seconds being the diff between life and death are lost on EVERY LOW HP PROF who's squishness is measured in the 0.8 seconds of lag between the MR alpha, the FA and AS insta-death that arrives in less time than it takes DOF to pop.

Please, for the good of your profession, take a break from the "we're already gimp" talk, and get a grip on pvp.

Now, I know that it's meaningless to talk smack without numbers, so, hows this for a number: Look at Enf duel wins vs duel losses and compare to any other class, and on average, you will see that enfs are stronger in 1-1 throughout EVERY TL, than ANY other prof in game.

Sure sure, 1on 1 doesn't mean squat... right? Wrong, thats the easiest way to see where individual skill sets of a prof work better, on average vs others. You still disagree? check the numbers.

Those at the top get nerfed, those at the bottom get help. It's the way it works.

All these changes are balanced and reasonable.

[Gatester]

Dude, you are out of line. When it takes 5 people a concerted effort to take down an enf, I'm sure you're overstating your omg-I'm-nerfest ness.

Seriously. You think enfs are squishy? Enfs are usually the last called targets in any pvp where there are callers, and in any other pvp situation, it takes even high DD classes a couple of minutes to take down a well setup enforcer.

Your cries about 8-12 seconds being the diff between life and death are lost on EVERY LOW HP PROF who's squishness is measured in the 0.8 seconds of lag between the MR alpha, the FA and AS insta-death that arrives in less time than it takes DOF to pop.

Please, for the good of your profession, take a break from the "we're already gimp" talk, and get a grip on pvp.

Now, I know that it's meaningless to talk smack without numbers, so, hows this for a number: Look at Enf duel wins vs duel losses and compare to any other class, and on average, you will see that enfs are stronger in 1-1 throughout EVERY TL, than ANY other prof in game.

Sure sure, 1on 1 doesn't mean squat... right? Wrong, thats the easiest way to see where individual skill sets of a prof work better, on average vs others. You still disagree? check the numbers.

Those at the top get nerfed, those at the bottom get help. It's the way it works.

All these changes are balanced and reasonable.

Eh this is terrible overview of the enforcer profession. You are looking at us from the opposing side and all you see is overpowered rather than what it might be like to actually play the profession. I cannot help but wonder if your view of Slowdown being an overpowered nano contributes to this disdain of enforcers either.

Taking 5 people to drop an enf, really? Well for 30 seconds I can take that sort of punishment, but I have to burn all my survival tools at once. After that, rage is the only thing that will keep me alive.

Enfs are the last targets called in mass pvp because we are not a threat. We do not have the DPM of a ranged profession, we do not have debuffs or heal support, all we can hope to do in mass pvp is rush into the opposing group and take out their support profs (docs, trader, engie). If we were more dangerous we would be higher priority targets. As far as the hardest professions to take down in mass pvp? Martial Artists and Adventurers.

Worrying about being rooted for 8-12 seconds and being unable to do anything about it while a trader or something debuffs you into oblivion is not a valid concern? I play those "low health" professions, and I must say I do not use a weakness of theirs as a reason to ignore another professions concerns.

Your view of duel numbers is rather funny. If you think an enforcer being able to Mongo Rage a higher number of wins vs losses is a sign the profession is doing well, you have a long way to go before you have a realistic idea of how things are happening in pvp. Now, saying enforcers have the best duel win to loss ratio of any profession, lying is not very apporpriate in the forums.

The reason 1 vs 1 numbers do not matter, Noobas, is because that enforcer might be able to take down a single toon, but once you add that second support or second DD the enf is put in a very very bad situation. The fear nano was a great help when we had a pesky doc or advy around when we needed to kill someone, but in the end all we can contribute to a fight is an alpha and the fact that we can generally avoid roots and snares to get to the support profs. When you nerf our alpha, or you nerf our ability to get to the people we need to kill, you walk a very thin line that can break the Enforcer profession.

This is why I stopped pvping with my enf, not because they are gimp, the nerfest, or suck at all at pvp. The enforcer profession simply contributes far less to pvp as a whole than to pvm.

[Painolympics]

As most points have already been made, all I can say is something along the lines to agree with Chaos....reroll....unsuscribe... focus more on nerfing advys...coon...evades....heals....AS(....)....defe nce....and DD **** ***

[madrid]

Did you even play the game back then? I did, and I'll tell you that the balance now is actually better than the balance was then - People are just looking back with rose coloured glasses, there were many classes that were just BAD in PVP back then (crat, MA, MP, adv) come to mind.

I rarely agree with kink but this needs to be said. Why do I keep hearing people say "we're putting the game back to the balance it had before notum wars". People that say that obviously did not play this game pre-notum wars. Aside from the billions of exploits and "mechanics" (I'll again mention nanos from yalms ) that made things retarded there were just some classes that were fail in pvp i.e. totally unbalanced. So if that is your goal I think a serious re-adjustment needs to be done.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

As far as the hardest professions to take down in mass pvp? Martial Artists and Adventurers.

putting Advy in the same sentence as MA when it comes to mass PVP is loltastic.

The main reason why you don't see any MA's in mass pvp is because they are called quickly, mercilessly, and die quickly. I don't assume that you have knowledge of all profs, and I only speak from my experience, and that is, that I see enfs as being able to come in quickly, kill a toon, and have excellent lasting capacity, 2rd/3rd only to advies and keepers.

The reason 1 vs 1 numbers do not matter, Noobas, is because that enforcer might be able to take down a single toon, but once you add that second support or second DD the enf is put in a very very bad situation.

What prof is this not true for?
The whole point of a support prof is exactly that... support.

Take any three profs with 1 defender being a support prof, and stack them 1 against two defenders, and I highly doubt you would find any attacking prof to be able to take down either of the other two at once, with the exception of some combo's including a nemesis prof. (but, generally you'd find that no 1 prof can take out another with a support prof helping defend).

This is why I stopped pvping with my enf, not because they are gimp, the nerfest, or suck at all at pvp. The enforcer profession simply contributes far less to pvp as a whole than to pvm.

totally disagree. enfs make excellent callers, and because mass pvp isn't alpha, wait, alpha wait, you often only have time to contribute a SA and fast attack to a fight before it's over... ya, if you dump your whole alpha into a toon, heck, man, thats what ALL of us do. MA's, solds, fixer, everyone! so, how is being an enf any different? If you are out of an alpha, can't you press q? no? why not?

[Herkulease]

5-12 seconds is the difference between life and death multiple times per round. Many multiple.

I don't have this issue.

In all seriousness, this will only result in us booking flights a little bit sooner. It might even make the game more fun for other people to play. Which will result in more people for us to PvP against.

[Gunnandahalf]

Did you even play the game back then? I did, and I'll tell you that the balance now is actually better than the balance was then - People are just looking back with rose coloured glasses, there were many classes that were just BAD in PVP back then (crat, MA, MP, adv) come to mind.

what! Your saying insta killing someone with an assault rifle as a nt was not balanced? Egads!!
Or garv and his instant kill mkIII sunburst

[Neon_1]

As far as the hardest professions to take down in mass pvp? Martial Artists and Adventurers.

ROFL

Yeah. Have to sig it.

[Moonbolt]

yeah lol.. i gotta agree with kink.. balance was non existing back vanilla AO...
i deleted my adv back then and have never picked up the class again...
the biggest reason i rolled an enf was the rage+FoB+EQB rampage we could do back then.
unfortunatly EQB got nerfed at about the exact time i could use it with my enf...

and people not realising the nerf to rage is a hard blow is the ones not realising that it might not only nerf our ability to escape.. it might be a nerf to our runspeed/NR/inits depending on how long the lockout is.
either we are gonna be perma rootable cause we need to keep rage up for the buffs or we are gonna be screwed over by any debuff that people wants to throw at us..

a greenie casting a dodge debuff on u = cap FA every time
a init debuff on u w/o rage already running = 5 mins to cast the rage or mongo not to mention the absorbs etc
a NSD or drain or even frost of crown cripples our ability to cast the buffs we so much need to survive.
and the runspeed... enfs need to keep a high runspeed to actually reach their targets.
or kiting wich was said to get nerfed will be a even worse problem.

if the root breaker is the reason to nerf rage make it unable to break the root and give us a separate nano to break roots with to not cripple our NR runspeed and inits.

[Lutfattig]

Quote from harios....... (but let's hope funcom knows what they are doing.)

made me laugh so hard.... we all know the level of understanding they have on relising stuff, its faster to wait for hell freze over than fc getting a clue on what they implementing.
one thing they proven time after time is they dont know squat and wil relese the most horible items to those that do not need it and nerf other as always, gj on another nail in the coffin.

[Gatester]

I have to remember to calm down sometimes.

Noobas, MA's are not some squishy cannon fodder toon in mass pvp, I played a 220 MA of my friends when I was in college with him (on his computer so no I was not breaking the EULA), and I found it quite effective hotswapping for SA, AS, and dimach. Being melee still sucked as usual, and he was a high health setup MA, so no I did not have to constantly watch my health but rarely I would get hit harder than I would like. I did not have a long time playing his MA, only two days running around BS and some Bore fighting while he got to try my enf, but I would in no way say that the MA profession lacks survival in pvp.

Regardless, enforcer and MA is not the same in anyway except they are melee. In mass pvp spamming Fast Attacks is not fun or productive, and the same goes for shades or keepers in mass pvp too. I was not saying the blight of being melee in ranged dominated zerg wars was only for enforcer. Until enforcers can actually protect their allies in mass pvp, and do something besides alpha support profs once every 1 to 2 minutes, there is nothing for me to do with the profession in pvp content.

And for the love of all that is sane, do not judge enforcers based on Mongo Rage duel wins.

[madrid]

Man, there is a lot of aggro in the post above this one

Keep the discussion civilized or it will just be disregarded as flame BS...

[navycut]

Gatester, seriously I think you are vastly deluded and clueless about MAs. There's just so much false info there, it's hard to even begin to correct it.

[Mercs]

Keep in mind with specials being nerfed that is enf love all by itself, you guys shouldbe excited.

[Harios]

Keep in mind with specials being nerfed that is enf love all by itself, you guys shouldbe excited.

The whole pvp system will change.. many aspects will be different.
You have to put all these changes into context.. and we don't know everything FC has planned yet.
So it is impossible to see the bigger picture at this moment.

[Moonbolt]

the only nerf that has been released so far to specials is AS getting a def check and a 3 sec cast.
that isnt realy gonna boost enforcers in any way since we are not an evade prof.

[madrid]

Other than when you see an agent stop kiting you know he's about to AS so start running

[Hacre]

the only nerf that has been released so far to specials is AS getting a def check and a 3 sec cast.
that isnt realy gonna boost enforcers in any way since we are not an evade prof.

Other than when you see an agent stop kiting you know he's about to AS so start running

Soldiers won't be FA/AS swapping on you either.

[Moonbolt]

well none of the changes to specials that enfs has been wanting for years has been mentioned so far.
Longer recharge on AS / FA to match SA is one suggestion that has been made.
calculate pvp caps before dmg in pvp is another.

i havnt seen any of that posted anywhere on the forums so as far as im concerned there is no real nerf to specials.
not in enf favour atleast.
fixers, MAs, Advs just gonna be even harder to kill w/o every class having a hit thats guaranteed to land.

as far as balance i havnt seen 1 suggested change that adresses the things i think is OP in this game.

Evades is so out of balance its silly, yet i havnt seen anything adressing them so far except a nerf of 10 static evades to acrobat. (i think i saw that in the perk doc's not 100% sure tho)

specials is another thing.. having someone take 30% of ur health every 11 secs + perks + regular hits is just silly.

teh big nerf to heals that was comming.. it was very vague on the doc forums about that but as far as i understood it they arent nerfing the heals, they are making them more even over the lvl ranges.
what i think this means is removing CH from the game and make the lower heals better to compensate for the loss of CH.

and i didnt see any mentioning about CB in the NT forums, the only thing i saw was tripples/doubles prolly getting removed from the game, wich wont affect enfs at all since NTs use IU on us anyway cause it does more dmg with our massive health.

the traders are getting their some of their debuffs merged so now they will be able to cripple people with even less pushes and faster time then they can atm.

i realy dont understand how FC is reasoning.