I don't like it, I hate it my enfo aint gonna become some pansy ass DD that cant do anything that's the fixer's job. Do this and we will just be the guys with the strength and stamina buffs.
I don't like it, I hate it my enfo aint gonna become some pansy ass DD that cant do anything that's the fixer's job. Do this and we will just be the guys with the strength and stamina buffs.
You view is ridiculous. If you think we will be reduced to STR/STA buffers because of a HP nerf, maybe you shouldn't be playing enfo.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
i'm looking forward to some new challenges when all these changes happen. should be fun
What I see here is an overall diminishing need for an enforcer in any situation other than zerg raid environments.
Far too many professions can tank too well as it is. Shades, advies, and soldiers tank far too well. In team environments dmg is just as much a method of tanking as taking dmg and in that respect enforcers are far too weak. That should change a bit.
Yes endgame enfos have the Nano Resistance, Run Speed and perks to do quite a bit of damage in a short time but that doesn't make an enforcer indestructible no matter how many solo pvpers hate the alpha we have. PVP is more than a gankfest. I like tactics and I would liek to see profs like enforcers, NTs, advies and soldiers to get a more robust toolset to allow for more tactics.
I personally hate the NTs who can permanently root and blind us. However it is an effective tactic brought on by a broken toolset. Same goes for rage. Its a broken tool that is required to combat more broken tools and processes like special capping dmg. Enforcers cannot be rooted and take the max dmg when all we have is HP. To say otherwise is unfair and an attempt to make your favorite profession OP.
All in all, I am eager to see the rest of the balance documentation. I am especially eager to see the adventurer, soldier and NT documents. I think we can all agree that these classes with the enforcer are the most OP of them all with Advies being on the top of the list when it comes to pvp.
The proposed balance documents for enforcers are moving enforcers into a support profession instead of front runner. It feels like we are being relegated to raid tank tools. We are fun in pvp cuz we get a fast gank. Only the best enforcers are true unstoppable killing machines and i choose not to hate them because they worked hard to build it.
"Can I have some shoes?"
I would be interested to hear specifically what you see that is regulating enfos to being needed only in a zerg raid environment. The reason I'm asking is because from what I have seen so far, the changes don't really do much of anything to how the enforcer is percieved in PVP or PVM.
For PVM, with HP nerfs all around, the need for an enfo will probably become greater. Sure, Shades, soldiers make great single target tanks, but once their defenses are down, they can't tank nearly as good as an enfo, even vs. single targets especially if they take HP hits. I'm not worried there.
For PVP, we got some trinkets that add to the AO team toolset and I think those will be appreciated tools.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
I guess as the new documents roll out, as I have specified in other threads, I want our layer shields to be more effective at mitigating dmg. We cannot keep agg through mongo and imalice while spamming a nearly useless layer shield.
Also some increases in the layer shields will allow us a similar degree of dmg mitigation in pvp and pvm soloability. As it stands now an enforcer as you reach endgame you become a tool, not a fun profession in pvm. We go through a lot of trouble to lvl and the endgame becomes bleak because your role becomes an enormously redundant one in every raid.
I guess I'd like to see the role i think an enforcer is meant to fill. A high dmg tank that enforces its will on the surroundings. Maybe that is asking to much, i don't know.
There is still so much in the air about how perks are going to look, how specials are going to scale, how the refined nano docs are going to balance out. Hell we still dont have half of them.
It is difficult to look at these changes in the big picture. The nano docs are hard to read for me ( i dont have the proper prgram to look it over i think) and the complete documentation doesn't even begin to reflect the balancing the mobs in game are going to get.
Same goes for item balancing. There are simply too many questions left unanswered. So I focus on what is now and what it will become in a more narrow sense. Perhaps I am mistaken or simply don't comprehend the full degree of the changes. I can admit that. However a lot of the changes I see I simply don't like. Some i do.
I do like SL essences not having a snare. I do like the team buffs. I like the layer aura because it will make a team stronger. This i think more than anything will make enforcers more needed. The ranged tank of a soldier, based on current docs, still looks to me like a better single taunt prof easier to keep alive tank than an enforcer. I am a strong advocate for making enforcers the only real viable tank in high dmg engame raids and instances. Soldiers, shades and advies simply have to much toolset for other purposes to allow them to continue to encroach on our territory.
I dislike challenger still having a nano lockout. I dont mind a cooldown for the nano but the lockout is retarded. The layer shields are still underpowered compared to soldier static reflects.
Last edited by fortorn; Nov 15th, 2010 at 19:28:39. Reason: continuity, for what thats worth
"Can I have some shoes?"
Originally Posted by Obtena
Soldiers now have target and self hp buffs equal to our own, a single taunt greater than iMongo and the ability to taunt adds, albeit less efficiently. Has this changed at all what you're pushing for? It honestly seems like enfs are going to be less necessary than before. I'd like to see layer cooldown lowered to 6 seconds or less after reading the soldier docs.
Yes actually it has, which is why I started a thread asking for everyone's ideas on how to give enfo's a more significant secondary team role. I have my own ideas but it's still unclear of the preferred approach. Is it better to make enfos the preferred tank or is it better to enhance their secondary role in a team if they aren't tanking? I personally think both can be addressed at the same time with the right selection of concepts, but it's not just me and my ideas, I am hoping there was enough interest in the enfo community to respond to my thread. So far it's rather sparse response.
Specifically to your question, I suggested a number of ideas, as did Arrien so there is activity, discussion and interest surrounding the fact that soldiers are getting things that were traditionally 'enfo' territory.
Last edited by Obtena; Nov 16th, 2010 at 00:10:45.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Well that's good. Thank you. Those soldier hp nanos came as a bit of a shock.
I totally disagree with this principle. As it stands soldiers are going to become a preferred tank in more situations.
If we get secondary roles in a team they bloody well better be awesome. Soldiers already have reflect auras and with HP buffs. We can't compete with that according to current documentation in secondary roles. Furthermore I cannot see what we could receive that could make an enforcer serving a vital team role. I am fearful that enforcers aregoign to go the way of the NT and MP in pvm... popularly never really being needed.
Soldiers have a role to play. They are primary DD and secondary tank/team boosters. I am comfortable with that arrangement. Enforcers cannot become more replaceable than they already are.
Our pvm dmg is a joke under every setup i've seen.
Our dmg mitigation is an ongoing joke.
Our only strong suit is powerful taunts and high hp both of which become useless in pvp.
We are supposed to voice our opinions here. I strongly disagree with the direction enforcers are going. Soldiers got what everyone realizes is boost to their overall defenses in pvp and pvm. Enforcers are getting nerfed by proxy.
Last edited by fortorn; Nov 16th, 2010 at 11:30:33.
"Can I have some shoes?"
You may disagree with that, but the fact is that most people recognize that if you have an enfo in team for tanking, there isn't any reason to have a second one because their current secondary role is mediocre damage dealer.
There is only one solution to that problem and you pointed to it with reference to soldiers: Give enfos, like soldiers have, a significant secondary role so they ARE considered for non-tanking spots in teams.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Well I and the devs are open to suggestions (i hope). What are the alternatives. They will never give enforcers more dmg in pvm/pvp. Everyone QQs about our alpha as it is even though its only effective as a burst of dmg every 60s that has no real guarantee of landing.
We dont have 12s FAs or bursts or aimed shots. We have some decent weapons to utilize but, like MPs, melee advies and any other melee weapon class we have no specials that do even half the dmg the ranged ones have.
Layer auras are nice but i don't see them being useful in their current form for the same reason you don't get soldiers in a team to cast reflects.
We have no debuffs to speak of or crowd control. Personally I always thought impressive long duration fears would be something enforcers should have. *Edit* I'm talking about single target fears like we utilize now, not aoe.
It would be nice to see more than 1 enforcer in a team at a time. I have no idea how though.
Last edited by fortorn; Nov 16th, 2010 at 15:22:54. Reason: info
"Can I have some shoes?"
One of my few ideas as a secondary role is to allow enfos to be a bodyguard to a specific person in team. If that person takes damage, from adds for instance, part of the damage goes to the guarding enfo. Enfos should have sufficient HP to take a significant amount of damage in PVM until the tank can get aggro if it's an add, or escape the situation if it's some enviromental or DoT effect on the target.
If you can imagine, this would be a good option for guarding doctors or even the tank if the healers in the team are comfortable with that. That way, an inexperienced tank can do the tanking job while protected by another enfo, allowing them to focus on learning the raid.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Excellent idea. Would be an incredible advantage to have more than one enfo in the team.
"Can I have some shoes?"
sounds kind of passive. and something a second enforcer could already do, just by paying attention and using taunts, damage, maybe new team absorbs, or whatever.
Well, you are missing the point. It's not about what a second enfo can do, it's about what gets a second enfo into a team if they aren't primary tank. Backup tank doesn't cut it.
I mean, try to justify taking that last open spot in a team with "I can backup tank" after FC rolls out tanking roles for Soldiers and Keepers and see where that gets you.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
I didn't miss that point, I just don't agree with that particular idea and don't really think its needed.
Not like AO has 1gazillion people /lft all time, im sure teams will take a 2nd enf if it presented itself, as usually the time it takes to get a better DD means waiting and you could be on your 2nd mish by time you find that superior DD.
Posted by Seventh: Has something to do with the fact that RL speaking im 172 sm high and weight 96 kg, all of which come in muscle form (and guessing your reaction about forum pvp, yes i can log into webcam )
Said the pixels lol..
You would be surprised how long people will wait to get that particular last person for team while many others are sitting on LFT.
Anyways, you can disagree with the idea that enfos need a secondary role in a team besides 'backup tank' but that shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. It's been a point of discussion numerous times and in my experience, having been denied teams because "We already have a tank" isn't a unique experience restricted to myself. It's only going to happen more often if main takning roles are given to other professions.
Last edited by Obtena; Nov 17th, 2010 at 19:09:43.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
B disagreed with your proposal, which was essentially a fancy version of "I can backup tank".
That doesn't mean she doesn't want a secondary role for Enforcers. What do Enfs need in terms of team support? Umm... I rather believe that cast on other and aura reflects should be nerfed, not Enf support boosted.
Also Enf taunting needs to be looked at again. It's too low given the Soldier file.
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