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Thread: Wishlist: Alpha absorber - Desecration of Worth

  1. #1

    Wishlist: Alpha absorber - Desecration of Worth

    Code:
    Desecration of Worth 
    
    Attempts to lessen the violent impulses of the target, which lowers the damage inflicted by the target and slows its attack.
    
    Nanocost 	2500
    School 	Psionic: Various damage modifier and initiative debuffs
    Duration 	20 seconds
    Attack time 	6s
    Recharge time 	2.5s
    Range 	20 m
    
    Defense skills
    Nano resist 	100 %
    
    Attack skills
    Matter metamorphosis 	53 %
    Psychological modifications 	47 %
    
    Requirements
    To Use 	User 	Matter metamorphosis 	>= 2151 	and
    User 	Psychological modifications 	>= 1950 	and
    User 	Profession 	== Meta-Physicist
    Target 	NPC type 	== 0 (must be a player)
    	
    Effects
    On Use 	Target 	Modify 	Projectile damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Melee damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Energy damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Chemical damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Radiation damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Cold damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Fire damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Poison damage modifier 	-1500 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Melee init 	-300 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Ranged init 	-300 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Physical init 	-300
           Target 	Modify 	Nano attack damage modifier 	-20
    Combines Desecrations and Wrath Abatement into one emergency nano for absorbing alphas that doesn't spread our 'emergency' protection over three nanos. 10 secs on heavy Desecration and requiring the lesser version makes it pretty much pointless to use (given you'd likely have to have SS up if you want to absorb the specials that matter) so it's upped to 20 seconds, and Wrath Abatement on its own has practically zero effect. 6 second cast time ensures if you are UBT'd you won't get this off before the alpha xD

    Only useable in PVP, so the actual damage debuff felt will be 750. It has no effect on NTs (well other than pre-SL ones using rifle ><)

    Edit: ZOMG this is great for TEAM PEEVEEEPEEE. Screw 1-on-1 we needz SS for that!111!!! /disclaimer so Ebag will read it
    Edit2: Screw NTs we need something to stack on our pathetic scourges.
    Last edited by Chrys; Dec 21st, 2008 at 06:38:20.
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  2. #2
    That's effectively an NSD for damage (but without being hard to land or removable).

    Because of the way that dmg debuffs are calculated, you're going to be removing 1500 dmg right off the top. Whatever is left over (if any) will then be further reduced by reflects, absorbs, etc.


    And I was looking for an excuse to post this. Thanks for providing an opportunity, Chrys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaun View Post
    MP Heal Efficiency Debuff/Dmg Debuff:
    • Desecration of Resolve (Dmg debuff) - reduced S&D/Painlance/other down by a significant amount making S&D hit for 700 points each per hit average compared to not being effected hitting for the normal 1.5-2.2k
    Current damage debuffs are reducing S&D by half. With the new proposed one it'd further reduce S&D to almost zero.


    In order for this to work or even be considered, it'd have to have one (or more) of the following:

    1) Easily removable (ala NSD).
    2) EXTREMELY short duration.
    3) Very difficult to land.

  3. #3
    That scenario doesn't happen in PVP because (a) you need to stack 2 debuffs on top of each other which means you may as well be alpha'd because by the time the second one lands you've just eaten FA, sneak, brawl (god help you if the stun lands while you're midcast) and maybe dimach, (b) heavy debuff lasts 10 seconds, (c) Xaun's numbers are wrong, I tested it with my sold before, it is halved.

    Try to PVP with it before you yap around cluelessly?
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    That scenario doesn't happen in PVP because (a) you need to stack 2 debuffs on top of each other which means you may as well be alpha'd because by the time the second one lands you've just eaten FA, sneak, brawl (god help you if the stun lands while you're midcast) and maybe dimach, (b) heavy debuff lasts 10 seconds, (c) Xaun's numbers are wrong, I tested it with my sold before, it is halved.

    Try to PVP with it before you yap around cluelessly?
    A) I have no problem stacking both debuffs before I'm even anywhere close to seriously hurt, unless I'm surprised (IE: sneak or going through teleporter.) ESPECIALLY for melee profs since you have at least 30m to cast nanos on them.

    B) 10 seconds is more than enough to utilize the heavy debuff along with at least one other (and if you're good, two others).

    C) Ever think that Xaun's numbers might not take effect on the live servers until 18.0?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    C) Ever think that Xaun's numbers might not take effect on the live servers until 18.0?
    If this has been fixed to flat reducer after PVP damage, then it is a very nice boost (it would be more than I was requesting).

    And if you can survive 10 seconds without SS and with a -900 dd debuff, the person attacking you doesn't know how to alpha. Stop comparing your performance vs gimps.

    P.S. Try duelling Babek (you know how non-trox shades have sucky AR and are the most in need of love, especially neut ones who don't get 2.5k board? ) and prepare to have all your assumptions blown away
    Last edited by Chrys; Dec 21st, 2008 at 09:25:13.
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  6. #6
    Notice about them debuffs. They affect only SnD*, not other perks.

    *
    Edit: latest testing showed that it doesn't affect SnD at all.
    Last edited by Klod; Jan 25th, 2009 at 18:11:31.
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
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  7. #7
    Make it last 10s instead, that would be so OP'd.
    ᖧ-Flynicist-ᖨ
    Grenade

    Rushing where angels fear to tread.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    Notice about them debuffs. They affect only SnD, not other perks.
    True. But IIRC the 50% nanodamage debuff also effects some perks as they are considered nanodamage.

    Still, the ability to cut S&D by half puts a serious dent into the two melee profs who have the biggest alpha that can hurt us. This goes back to my statements abot knowing what tools you have, and when to use them.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    True. But IIRC the 50% nanodamage debuff also effects some perks as they are considered nanodamage.
    Only Starfall line, nothing else (actually, scratch that, it doesn't - tested it properly this time). Duration is also too short. It needs to be boosted for at least 15 seconds up.

    Still, the ability to cut S&D by half puts a serious dent into the two melee profs who have the biggest alpha that can hurt us. This goes back to my statements abot knowing what tools you have, and when to use them.
    You usually don't have time to ladder them up on time. We need more "user friendly" nanos. Meaning, this one needs at least its duration extended to 40 seconds.
    Last edited by Klod; Dec 21st, 2008 at 21:06:10.
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    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Still, the ability to cut S&D by half puts a serious dent into the two melee profs who have the biggest alpha that can hurt us. This goes back to my statements abot knowing what tools you have, and when to use them.
    And I suggest you try seeing the effect of your damage debuff on a melee alpha before you cite your Paper Peeveepee claims again.

    How did your duel with Babek go? Or try duelling any of the good MAs (there's a lot of them - Joeymtl, Neccoz, Borris2 or Angevil for a start), or any of the good enfs (also a lot of them - Harios, Shimka, Forz (tho Forz doesn't know how to fight MPs <3), Xterminatore)? Or the good advies (Scumtron especially)? Or any random shade (Babek ofc, being non-trox so no excuses about MR, but also try any of the dozens of troxshadeclones out there now)? Yes, tell us how the DD debuffing went. xD Or scared to have your eyes opened?

    The fact is, the damage reducer doesn't do enough and it involves a hideous stacking that usually isn't available when you need it. Well I guess we can always kite llike Ebag and pretend our prof has no issues
    Last edited by Chrys; Dec 22nd, 2008 at 03:25:59.
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  11. #11
    I don't have any problems with 1v1 PvP. I just know I'm pretty much guaranteed to lose due to the fact that I don't have AS, and am not setup for 1v1 PvP in the least.

    So therefore whether I beat every single one of the people on your list, or lost to a greenie, doesn't matter. If I'm not setup for 1v1 PvP, then it simply doesn't apply.

    If I wanted to do 1v1 PvP I could have easily chosen to do so. I've had at least half a dozen offers of a Tigress (in fact I have one sitting in my bank, rotting, along with a huge slew of bow buffing items I've collected over the years). I chose not to go that route, knowing I would not excel in 1v1 PvP. That wasn't my goal. My setup seriously nerfed my AR/DD. AR/DD wasn't my goal. My setup is not very good for soloing. Soloing wasn't my goal.

    It'd be like taking your setup and comparing you to a SoZ MP and saying "well you can't solo tank LotV, so therefore you can't do any PvM!" You didn't design your setup to tank LotV, so why should that even be a consideration?

  12. #12
    How can you talk about PvP issues then?
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    How can you talk about PvP issues then?
    Because (amazingly enough) there's more to PvP than just duels.

    And considering FC's well published stance on the issue, I'd say that I'm rather closer to the way FC wants people to PvP than many other people.

    Then again, what do they know?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    Or scared to have your eyes opened?
    I thought so. 'sif SnD is our biggest worry these days...
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  15. #15
    So there is balance in this world after all. If you have personal content designers, universe will punish you with silly professionals.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    So there is balance in this world after all. If you have personal content designers, universe will punish you with silly professionals.
    I h8 u
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    I thought so. 'sif SnD is our biggest worry these days...
    That's funny. I seem to recall a certain MP complaining about how melee prof's alpha's were the worst.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    My latest bugbear is melee alpha protection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    And in terms of support, given our debuff toolset doesn't do shiz against keepers, enfs, solds, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    Damage debuffs? Ok that's just silly now, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaun View Post
    MP Heal Efficiency Debuff/Dmg Debuff:
    • Desecration of Resolve (Dmg debuff) - reduced S&D/Painlance/other down by a significant amount making S&D hit for 700 points each per hit average compared to not being effected hitting for the normal 1.5-2.2k
    Yeah....an 50% to 70% damage reduction (and that's after the PvP damage is cut in half) to one of keeper/enfs biggest alpha specials "doesn't do shiz". (And that doesn't even count what it does to the rest of the alpha.)

    Once again, Chrys, I'm done with this thread. You clearly are not interested in anything besides pushing for what you think is needed (even if it's exactly the sort of thing FC has said they won't consider), and not interested in any constructive feedback.

  18. #18
    lol if it doesn't work vs the entire alpha, it doesn't work. Cutting out even 3k damage from SnD (is it even that much?) doesn't stop them from doing 150% of your HP in an alpha. Worse if you don't have blockers, which kinda is the case when you don't have SS up. As I said, go PVP someone to see how much the debuff actually does (and how easy it is to get up at the right time). Working vs a single perk attack is not enough.

    Nice try though, for proving IHHN right. I like how you jump in, crow triumphantly about your latest PVP discovery then take your ball home when you get proven to have misunderstood everything being said nor actually experienced or tried out what you talk about so confidently in PVP. It's getting quite predictable now.

    Since when have FC said they won't consider PVP versions of PVM nanos that are long-established parts of our toolset, but that don't translate well in PVP? You're like the Pope dictating what God says is his will, too bad your peasants aren't illiterate anymore
    Last edited by Chrys; Dec 22nd, 2008 at 05:03:31.
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Because (amazingly enough) there's more to PvP than just duels.
    And you do neither of it.
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    You won.
    Making them feel special since 2008.



  20. #20
    It's funny to watch everyone shooting themselves in the foot around here these days. Chrys in particular, takes such an aggressive and retaliatory tone, that the likelihood of her ideas and thoughts being listened to and taken seriously reduces every time she types a word. So a thread that started as an idea of hers gets lost again in bickering.

    Both Chrys and Klod can't even really have a reasonable discussion about it that might persuade others who read the thread... simply because of the tone . After spending so much of the time waging an all-out attack on the professionals, even if wonderful ideas were being come up with in wishlists, there's been so much damage to the relationship that it's hard to want to help any more - and it's incredibly difficult for anybody to read a post from Chrys, without immediately assuming bile and hidden agendas.

    That's basically affecting their chances of getting their thoughts and ideas represented to the fullest. Weirdly, the approach actually hurts their chances of getting what they say they're complaining about. In Chrys' case, she knows this... but then her agenda is somewhat less open.

    At the same time, both professionals are now being drawn so much into the argument, they've forgotten that this is a wishlist thread - and any idea should at least be civilly entertained. That's not least because of the tone being set around the forums generally and is quite understandable given the almost continuous bashing they've been the target of from Chrys recently.

    Still they could stand to allow for more discussion and even possibly include the idea in the wishlist thread. There's nothing at root wrong with the idea of a single cast damage debuff for PvP, rather than a stacked one. It's unlikely they'd include the init debuff nor the nano modifier... and the duration would probably drop somewhat... but the basic idea of a single cast PvP-only version of the big damage debuffs isn't a bad idea.

    Don't allow them to goad you to the level that you actually start giving them ammunition. You still need to take specific ideas split out into wishlist threads reasonably seriously and at face value. Allow discussions to develop etc. Hard though it is to ignore the bile and sub-agenda that Chrys has, you really need to try or you shoot yourself in the foot and muh as she does all the time.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

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