'Defence' vs 'Offence'

[Questra]

Nobody uses those anymore. Don't lie.

I remember ASing Herk once at OA grid when he was flagged and I was using a onehander. You'd think with all my add damage, AS would be alright on an enfo.

9 out of 10 ASes were lowest possible (about 1kish) and I got 1 that was about 3k. I was completely shocked, but I know exactly how it happened.

People do use ql 300 Spirit Infused Yuttos NCUs, and people also get crit reduction in other places too. Like the nanodecks that everyone uses.

[Questra]

If potential attack rating was so good and evades were so nerfed, we wouldn't see 80% of the game using an evade setup.

AAD clusters give a huge amount more AAD than their AAO cousins give AAO, and the only perk that comes close to the evades and AAD that multiple profs have access to with DoF, CiB, ect, is Atrox only and lasts for a fraction of the time.

[heartless888]

A soldier with 4100 AR falls into the catagory of "can kill things and do damage". Easily. Very very easily.



If AMS had a visual effect that showed as long as it was up, yes, and a different effect that showed when normal reflects were up, as long as they were up, then yes.

However, when you hit AS, you dont know if soldier has reflect, AMS, or nothing at all - So no.

or you could say in sneak until NSD lands on the soldier, then splat him, which is what agents like srompu do

and i thought thats what noobius was referring to

[heartless888]

If potential attack rating was so good and evades were so nerfed, we wouldn't see 80% of the game using an evade setup.

AAD clusters give a huge amount more AAD than their AAO cousins give AAO, and the only perk that comes close to the evades and AAD that multiple profs have access to with DoF, CiB, ect, is Atrox only and lasts for a fraction of the time.

clearly soldiers need the attack rating version of acrobat, 200 aao and 800 aoo perks, yep yep

[Voyvovoy]

Lets nerf evades and all reroll soldier/nt or doc.

[Questra]

Nah, but let's make sure AAO and AR goes up at least as much as AAD to make hardcore AR twinking viable (at the expense of defensive stuff like evades, a a defensive perkline, HP, or NR and reflects, ect).

[sultryvoltron]

I remember ASing Herk once at OA grid when he was flagged and I was using a onehander. You'd think with all my add damage, AS would be alright on an enfo.

9 out of 10 ASes were lowest possible (about 1kish) and I got 1 that was about 3k. I was completely shocked, but I know exactly how it happened.

People do use ql 300 Spirit Infused Yuttos NCUs, and people also get crit reduction in other places too. Like the nanodecks that everyone uses.

Welcome to 2010. My best guess would be 95% of PvPers at TL7 do not use more than one of those, or use them as situational swaps for duels at most.

[Hacre]

Good thing that advs got worse after LE. (Until the pistol patch).

No they didn't. They got marginally better, lots more HP and general defence for a start, along with unchaining of 1he+acrobat perks which with their toolset strengthened their ability to survive all but zergs to a massive degree. In fact, Adventurers are the only pre LE God Prof that retained somewhat God status post LE which with the new pistol perks went from sublime to ridiculous.

If potential attack rating was so good and evades were so nerfed, we wouldn't see 80% of the game using an evade setup.

Or, you could argue the decrease in gap between evade power and attack power (come on, I know you remember the god status of evadey professions pre LE and it's nowhere near like that today) allowed for dropping AR in favour of some defence.

Nah, but let's make sure AAO and AR goes up at least as much as AAD to make hardcore AR twinking viable (at the expense of defensive stuff like evades, a a defensive perkline, HP, or NR and reflects, ect).

For the most part, it has. Look at the items that add just as much aao/aad that practically everyone uses. Look at the fact that evade setup Agents were hard to perk for even melee profs pre LE, yet can now be perked by anyone who can break 3k attack rating.

As a player of a heavily perk reliant profession, I can tell you that the biggest change defence wise has been the availability of HP being massively boosted, not the difference in AR vs Evades and as someone who plays two arguably evade professions and one semi evade profession, evade builds are most certainly not what they were in power pre LE.

Evades are trumped, -always-, by actual damage mitigation or healing.

[Kinkstaah]

or you could say in sneak until NSD lands on the soldier, then splat him, which is what agents like srompu do

and i thought thats what noobius was referring to

fkin LOL at this actually happening with the following criteria
1) Sneak Speed
2) Soldier Runspeed
3) once every 20s pulse over .. 8m

Just.. lol.

[IHaveHugeNick]

fkin LOL at this actually happening with the following criteria
1) Sneak Speed
2) Soldier Runspeed
3) once every 20s pulse over .. 8m

Just.. lol.

Word brotha.

Don't forget it has to go through NR check too.

[Cyberleet]

I hope for better distinction between offensive and defensive setups (and classes for that matter, like the evadeclas shade damage vs agent damage being a bit more inherently diferent), the challenge is of course to not overpower any classes enabling someone to get both good defence and offense.

It's like with Adv with AS, they can do pretty much same alpha as agent but surrivabillity isn't scaled properly imo.

Altho, that is probably the intention with the adv-class.

In short, offensive/defensive could be done more distinct from eachother.

[Armus]

fkin LOL at this actually happening with the following criteria
1) Sneak Speed
2) Soldier Runspeed
3) once every 20s pulse over .. 8m

Just.. lol.

I guess the omni agents+srompu is just way better than you at this then because it happens very often lately.

You know, in mass pvp they even use CC to hold me in place (!)

You know, roots and stuff.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah they must be really good to keep you rooted and still be in sneak.

[Kinkstaah]

I guess the omni agents+srompu is just way better than you at this then because it happens very often lately.
You know, in mass pvp they even use CC to hold me in place (!)
You know, roots and stuff.

You know, you must be a bad soldier. Yes, an agent can unsneak AFTER you use AMS and just stick to you and hope it procs while tanking you in mimic doc. It's doable, but that ISNT what was mentioned earlier, at all.

What was mentioned earlier was how agents can psychically predict if a soldier has AMS up or not, from sneak.

That however, WOULD Be a good agent ability, to see 'more' buffs running on opponents, to see if people had ES, Limber, DOF, AMS, Bio cocoon, NBG running when they attack someone from conceal.

But it still doesnt help much when you are walking in such a fast paced game.

[schloops]

Lets nerf evades and all reroll soldier/nt or doc.

Let me explain to you how it works: you wanna roll a nt when evades are boosted, not when they are nerfed. I can explain why if still needed.

[Armus]

You know, you must be a bad soldier. Yes, an agent can unsneak AFTER you use AMS and just stick to you and hope it procs while tanking you in mimic doc. It's doable, but that ISNT what was mentioned earlier, at all..

Proc? Wut? It's an aura that refreshes every 20 sec.

What was mentioned earlier was how agents can psychically predict if a soldier has AMS up or not, from sneak...

Yeah I mean it's not like you can watch when a soldier gets bashed and he ams's and then run up to him and wait for the refresh. And it's not like you can watch dmg log and see if he is ams'd.

That however, WOULD Be a good agent ability, to see 'more' buffs running on opponents, to see if people had ES, Limber, DOF, AMS, Bio cocoon, NBG running when they attack someone from conceal....

Would be awesome for everyone to know, wouldn't it? Until soemthing changes you just have to use your head and do what everyone else does to figure out what to do in each situation.

But it still doesnt help much when you are walking in such a fast paced game.

If you can't stand toe to doe with a soldier then just do what other agents do. Run up to the soldier after you see he has ams'd and voila.
He drops fast.

[Kinkstaah]

And the soldier can just evade it, by you know, running. 20s refresh is crap, and its resisted more often than not. I've tested it. I was so amazed with how well it worked that I don't bother using it. (actually right now I dont bother playing agent)

But that isnt what was mentioned. I said there is no way you can tell if a soldier has AMS up or not, when he is running by, when he is NOT IN COMBAT.

Thus, for an agent to have a true first shot, he has no way of knowing whether AMS is up or not. I did say you could run up to a soldier once you know he has AMS up, but that certainly isnt a first shot, as a soldier with AMS up is already fighting someone else in such a scenario.

[Questra]

Let's get back on track with this thread.

AR and AAO should, in the future, go up at least as much as evades/def. Let's keep the gap between AR and def as it is without it getting out of hand again.

Also, ensure that many profs are able to twink AR and AAO at the expense of evades/AAD or some other defensive stat (i.e. for soldiers HP and 7% reflects). Choice of playstyle is a good thing.

Melee profs might want a full range of offensive Alb hud options too, though if they do, ranged profs should get some extra defensive love along the lines of whatever Parry turns out to be.

[Hacre]

And the soldier can just evade it, by you know, running. 20s refresh is crap, and its resisted more often than not. I've tested it. I was so amazed with how well it worked that I don't bother using it. (actually right now I dont bother playing agent)

But that isnt what was mentioned. I said there is no way you can tell if a soldier has AMS up or not, when he is running by, when he is NOT IN COMBAT.

Thus, for an agent to have a true first shot, he has no way of knowing whether AMS is up or not. I did say you could run up to a soldier once you know he has AMS up, but that certainly isnt a first shot, as a soldier with AMS up is already fighting someone else in such a scenario.

Soldiers can't run away, their runspeed sucks and they're always rooted, snared or death by NT/Trader. Didn't you get the memo?