What is your definition of a pvp "Alpha"?

[Nab2000]

I define an alpha as an all out attempt to kill something from 100% hp in a very short amount of time.

[Mekh]

alpha to me is everything you can throw at em b4 repeating any part of it.

an gank alpha is usually a combination of all specials plus your fastest perks, wihtout holding anything back for tactical purposes, such as dimach. usually with the intention of finishing someone before they can fight back.

it's easier to tell you who the recipients are than the ganker, mostly AFK or low hp, or known to be gimp. on the other hand, 207/214's come to mind picking on tl5's.

This corresponds to how I've always thought of an "alpha" too.

[zartosht]

Wikipedia: "[...] An alpha strike is a sudden, all-out attack with no consideration for defense or conserving reserves."

Pretty much what Righteous and Redwatr have said.

[Flyingengi]

Pretty much what Righteous

Problem with his definition is he said initial. Your alpha in pvp isn't always done at the beginning of the fight. It's usually done at the exact right time when they are at the right hp and have the right perks down (if you are a good pvper).

[zartosht]

Problem with his definition is he said initial. Your alpha in pvp isn't always done at the beginning of the fight. It's usually done at the exact right time when they are at the right hp and have the right perks down (if you are a good pvper).

It has to be initial, sudden and with no consideration for defense or reserves. Pretty much when you Q1234567890olm at start of fight. The use of the word "Alpha" is here to underline the initial ("Alpha" = first letter of the alphabet) and powerfull (like in "Alpha Male") characteristic of the strike.

What you are describing would be more accurately defined as a tactical strike or finisher blow.

[Klodovik]

Wikipedia: "[...] An alpha strike is a sudden, all-out attack with no consideration for defense or conserving reserves."

Pretty much what Righteous and Redwatr have said.

This is not true at AO though.

[Tradoroz]

I'd like to think of it this way:

Defitinition of alpha:

Average DPS goes up or remains steady.

Alpha over?

Average DPS goes down

Examples / Explanations / TL;DR below:

So I count big DD perks and specials as an alpha, but stuff like tiny perks and DOT perks don't count, as they don't really dent your average dps, and after you've fired your big damage perks and specials you can't keep your average DPS up .


So basically a NT spamming triple's who's not perking is constantly alpha-ing, because his average DPS doesn't go down. If he starts rooting or casting other nano's, his DPS wil go down and he wont be 'alphaing' anymore.


If a soldier does FA + Burst + Perks, his average DPS will rise, when perks are over, his average DPS will have dropped, if he keeps doing Fullauto + Burst untill his perks are recharged and he uses his perks again, his average DPS will rise again and it'll be another alpha.

If a soldier does not use perks and only uses FA + Burst every 11 and 9 seconds, his average DPS will remain quite steady, so his first FA+Burst wouldn't be counted as an alpha, even though he dishes out 20k damage within 1 second (or caps 2 specials + hits 1 reg in pvp).


Why do I use this wierdness as a definition for the word Alpha?

What most of you are trying to define is an Alphakill, throwing everything you have on somebody so he dies before he can retaliate, an Alpha does not have to kill people.

My level 60 fixer has a burst and an attack perk, 2 capped attacks wont kill anybody,
His alpha wont kill you, so he can't alphakill, but he does have an alpha. As soon as his burst + perk are recharged and he fires them both he alpha's again.

If a doc without a weapon tries to 'alpha' you, he'll need to land 3 DOT's, when landing DOT's his average DPS rises, which is an alpha, this alpha wont be over untill either the player dies or the DOT's run out.

If the doc has a silverback equipped, his average DPS will be the highest at the start of the fight, aimed shot + fling shot. Doc UBT's, average DPS goes down, doc starts dotting, dps still going down, next aimed shot + fling shot, another alpha. If the doc lands all his DOT's, his alpha will build up and get stronger every DOT he lands.

This is my definition :0

[SSK]

Has nothing to do with flaming. Any real pvper knows that your alpha attack is used at just the right time, which usually isn't at the beginning of the fight because that is when it is expected.

If real PvPer is fighting another real PvPer, who doesn't do alpha at start, because it's expected, another one doesn't use defense and keep it for later alpha, so it's logical to do alpha at start since it's unexpected from real PvPer and here comes alpha at start. Oh sh.t, I'm lost here myself. Not using alpha at beginning doesn't make you real PvPer or using it at start doesn't make you gimp

[zartosht]

It is a question of definition, simply. Hence, a massive strike dealt:

- at the beginning of a fight, as an opening or initial salvo, is an Alpha Strike
- in the middle of a fight is a Tactical Strike, because it is timed to be the most efficient at a given point of the battle
- at the end of a fight is a Finisher Blow, because it is supposed to end the fight

So an AO l33t speaker who says "I finished him with my Alpha", is actually meaning "I killed him with my Finisher Blow".

[Righteous]

When I say 'initial' I mean in the sense that it is the first set of attacks that follow the definition. Not when it is executed. The use of the word 'initial' provides that the series of attacks come first before any other series of attacks lest the lack thereof would allow for a smaller set of attacks to break up the 'initial' alpha.

[Darkirbiska1]

Alpha=SnD perk(4 high dmg hits-more than 100%hp) vs froob.

[Ocene]

I always thot an "Alpha" as the opening 3-4 seconds of an attack, or as in an "opening salvo". But I keep hearing about how proffs can "Alpha" someone and kill them from 100% in 3 milisecs. Who ARE these Proffs? and where can I get one? Even NTS can only do a possible 90% in 1 hit.....give me your thots.

I went through the first few replies then had to comment.

An Alpha is the amount of Burst damage you can do.

BURST: That is the amount of damage you can do while the opponent is trying to heal or mitigate it..and fail at it....

Yeah when you BURST someone, you rock.

Alphaing someone is unleaching hell.

[Puheenjohtaja]

Sometimes I "alpha" ppl on my nt using pretargeting, nbs, triple, omni nm sb. Usually a guaranteed gnak... and then duallog my engy and play him forawhile since my nt is mostly useless in pvp environment.

sometimes ppl dont even know what hit em.

[PingBong]

whatever it used to mean in the past or whatever it means in other games alpha = short burst of extreme damage, doesent matter if it kills anything or how long the fight has gone on

[Esqi]

whatever it used to mean in the past or whatever it means in other games alpha = short burst of extreme damage, doesent matter if it kills anything or how long the fight has gone on

/victory

[Deskclerk]

Wikipedia: "[...] An alpha strike is a sudden, all-out attack with no consideration for defense or conserving reserves."

Pretty much what Righteous and Redwatr have said.

I disagree, there is no real penalty in AO for using an alpha. One of the imbalances. For example if a soldiers alpha left them with empty chambers and a sharp reload time that would concur with the wiki def. But you and I know that reload is fast and instantaneous. In AO the alpha also does nothing to lower defenses while attack is being executed. Again, not to pick on soldiers, but if a soldier had to lower his shield in order to initiate an alpha that would also concur with wiki.

In AO, when people who PVP speak of an alpha, they are refering to an attack designed to KILL their target in such a manner as to leave no room for retaliation. This has been the problem with PVP in AO from day one. The first attempt to fix it was a band aid that led to horrible patterns in this game for pvp. That was the 50% damage. The second band aid was worse the 30% cap. All these two short term fixes have achieved was making the players use MORE specials and finding ways to cap them, in effect driving players to the very thing they wanted to stop. Quick, capping specials.

Specials have ruined PVP in AO for a long time, they have changed the turn based, critical thinking style of pvp into the gear gathering, button mash style that it is today. Many people enjoy the gank/alpha. I suspect it is one of the reasons many people play AO. However it serves to discourage the casual gamer from even attempting to pvp. My years of experience playing this game have shown me this. Those that like this style of PVP do not remain a paying player for long. They are, for the most part,a flash in the pan. Once they gather all the top equipment, max skills needed to do unavoidable specials/perks the killing becomes easy and they move on like a typical ADHD player they are.

I will offer up Guild Wars as an example of a game where while still important, equipment is NOT the deciding factor, instead a well thought out planned strategy is required for long term success as an avid pvper. Trust me that game has seen its share of "AO" style pvp, but they seem to mover fairly rapidly in evaluating and changing items and rules. I remember watching a guild VS guild pvp battle was was well over 45 mins and counting when i had to finally leave.

AO, in my opinion, must balance pvp in such a way that battles last longer, require more thought while in battle than twink skills prior too, reward those with better gear while the same time not discouraging those who do not have 100+ hours to camp a single mob, mitigate the ability to "alpha" someone while at the same time making it possible to actually kill a target.

Pretty easy to do the above stated! j/k Balance is hard to achieve. I do not envy those who are responsible for making that happen. However I would like to see specials and alphas in their current state go by the wayside. Some of the ways I think they could make this possible are as follows:

1)Make AC's mean something again.
2)Limit the amount of ammo carried in inventory.
3)Increased reload times.
4)Nano delta over haul. (would be nice if people actually ran out)
5)Heal delta over haul. (Sucks to have your reg dmg nullified by this. increasing the need for capping specials)
6)Surviving specials should be on a roll system checked against defenses and armor class. Enabling a chance for a huge hit, BUT doing away with the cap or miss style we have now.

ETC ETC ETC

[Mekh]

...snip...

Excellent post.... Agree with just about all of your points made...