AS profs

[Hacre]

Gatester I'm no longer going to dignify your statements with actual detailed responses, until you climb off your high horse and stop acting like you know everything about every profession.

Hint: If you're ranged and not good with Full Auto, currently you need AS.
Hint: If your perk alpha doesn't kill anyone, currently you need AS.

Oh one more thing. I've only ever been killed once by an MA that didn't make use of an SA/AS swap.

[sultryvoltron]

Maybe you could list a profession besides Agent and Ranged Adventurer that need AS to perform in pvp? I'll run down the profs myself:

Bureaucrat: Doesn't need it but alternatives actually take some work with stun procs gone.
Doctor: Doesn't need it.
Enforcer: Doesn't need it.
Engineer: Doesn't need it.
Fixer: Needs it, until Full Auto replaces it.
Keeper: Doesn't need it.
Martial artist: Doesn't need it, even if it is very effective for them they can kill anyone without it.
Meta-physicist: Needs it, offensively there are no other really viable choices I know of, and no proper CC tools to maximize pet effectiveness.
Nano-technician: Doesn't need it.
Shade: Doesn't need it.
Soldier: Needs it, afaik until some defenses are balanced out several profs need AS to be killed.
Trader: Doesn't need it, unless completely shutting down most profs is not enough.

So asside from Adventurer and Agent, the only profs that should currently need AS to perform in pvp are Fixer, MP, and Soldier. After the balancing, Fixer, MP, and Soldiers will either not need it at all (but likely maintain the option of using it) or will have a much better alternative.

That's a pretty flawed list as far as current game mechanics go.

[Kazeran]

Maybe you could list a profession besides Agent and Ranged Adventurer that need AS to perform in pvp? I'll run down the profs myself:

Bureaucrat: Doesn't need it but alternatives actually take some work with stun procs gone.
Doctor: Doesn't need it.
Enforcer: Doesn't need it.
Engineer: Doesn't need it.
Fixer: Needs it, until Full Auto replaces it.
Keeper: Doesn't need it.
Martial artist: Doesn't need it, even if it is very effective for them they can kill anyone without it.
Meta-physicist: Needs it, offensively there are no other really viable choices I know of, and no proper CC tools to maximize pet effectiveness.
Nano-technician: Doesn't need it.
Shade: Doesn't need it.
Soldier: Needs it, afaik until some defenses are balanced out several profs need AS to be killed.
Trader: Doesn't need it, unless completely shutting down most profs is not enough.

So asside from Adventurer and Agent, the only profs that should currently need AS to perform in pvp are Fixer, MP, and Soldier. After the balancing, Fixer, MP, and Soldiers will either not need it at all (but likely maintain the option of using it) or will have a much better alternative.

I want to go soli or opi on my enf.
I want to go nm on my soli trader.
I want to go trox or nm on my opi fixer.
I want to go opi on one of my ranged advy.
I want to go trox on my main ranged advy, but might stay soli.
I want to go nm or opi on my engie.

Are the reasons your thinking is flawed. AS nerf helps your enf, doesnt effect your engi, only boosts 3 of your toons, possibly 4.

You are only looking at it (so it seems) from a view point of your own profs. Look at it from a view point of other profs who lack the killing power of all your toons. AS is used so much because it a said prof kill another said prof that would be impossible otherwise. Until everyones toolset is balances so everyone has a chance to kill everyone, AS is there to band-aid fix it.

[Gatester]

So which prof am I missing exactly that cannot kill players without AS, Traders? Sorry to say it Hacre, but I think I covered everything you "Hinted" at except you are completely wrong if you think alphas, AS, and FA are the only ways to kill people. Also, I do not think you want to bring in your ability to slam massive damage through any evader into this discussion. If an evade prof could withstand your toolset they likely would not need AS to stand a chance against you either.


Kazeran, just lol. You realize I have 3 accounts (4th is just extra stuff), not just 6 toons right? I have every profession but soldier and my only crat is froob. So how exactly can I not look at it through other professions eyes, if I have all of them but two? Could toss out soldier as well since I said they need AS, which leaves crats. Am I wrong about crats having harder to use but still viable alternatives to AS?


Remeber I said need AS, not perform better with or without it. You guys need to work on some serious reading comprehension if you are all going to accuse me of things all the time. Am I going to have to list 24 characters in my signature too before you guys shut up about what I do and do not know?

[navycut]

So which prof am I missing exactly that cannot kill players without AS, Traders? Sorry to say it Hacre, but I think I covered everything you "Hinted" at except you are completely wrong if you think alphas, AS, and FA are the only ways to kill people. Also, I do not think you want to bring in your ability to slam massive damage through any evader into this discussion. If an evade prof could withstand your toolset they likely would not need AS to stand a chance against you either.


Kazeran, just lol. You realize I have 3 accounts (4th is just extra stuff), not just 6 toons right? I have every profession but soldier and my only crat is froob. So how exactly can I not look at it through other professions eyes, if I have all of them but two? Could toss out soldier as well since I said they need AS, which leaves crats. Am I wrong about crats having harder to use but still viable alternatives to AS?


Remeber I said need AS, not perform better with or without it. You guys need to work on some serious reading comprehension if you are all going to accuse me of things all the time. Am I going to have to list 24 characters in my signature too before you guys shut up about what I do and do not know?

I'll almost guarantee a MA would never be able to kill a crat, advy, doc, fixer, other MA without it.

[Hacre]

So which prof am I missing exactly that cannot kill players without AS, Traders? Sorry to say it Hacre, but I think I covered everything you "Hinted" at except you are completely wrong if you think alphas, AS, and FA are the only ways to kill people. Also, I do not think you want to bring in your ability to slam massive damage through any evader into this discussion. If an evade prof could withstand your toolset they likely would not need AS to stand a chance against you either.

It had nothing to do with my nukes and I was talking from a Crat and NT perspective when I mentioned MAs. Don't cry about people not taking your 20 accounts full of every profession at every possible PvP range, if you're just going to assume other people are always talking from one point of view as well.

MA attack rating is sorely lacking. When pistol perks go back to 100%, Crat attack rating will be sorely lacking. Keeper perk damage is sorely lacking as well as Keeper AR being sorely lacking against people they could actually kill via perks. Doc attack rating is sorely lacking, currently.

It's no surprise that typically low AR professions crowbar AS into their toolset, even at the cost of other parts of their toolset, to get a working 11s AS. It has nothing to do with faceplant alphas, nor easymode killing. It's about what works the best.

For the most part, AS is used because it's been put into people's toolset specifcally (Agent, Trader, MP) or because PvP damage output is lacking otherwise (Crat, Doc, Engineer, Fixer, Ranged Advy), although Ranged Advy changed somewhat with the pistol perk changes.

Also, neither I, or anyone else, cares much how many toons you have. A bad argument is a bad argument. Remember how you also think Soldiers need a fat nerf when they actually don't?

[erozc]

On a completely derailing note, it's interesting how it can be observed that some people complain about professions A-E not having enough AR, other people complain about professions C-F having too much AR, and thirdly some people claim that professions E and G don't have enough def and should get more to avoid being perked by C,D and F.

This actually relates to the current thread in the sense that at least the opinions about AS and who should have it are a lot more coherent.

[Racatti]

Some bows have AS, MAs and MPs have a high bow skill - that's pretty much as far as it goes.

Think again.

[styles999]

^^ exactly

but personally, i wouldnt mind being steered away from bow/as on my ma, as long as it is evened out.

agents should be really the only one maybe soldiers imho. most ranged should be using fling/burst/fa...melee should be using fast attack/sneak/backstab.

im willing to wait tho, honestly its alil too much for me to take in all at one time

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'd like to see the balance changes to MA's preclude the possibility of using a bow.

I want to see MA's returning to some long lost glory of a moderately capable melee fighter without the use of hotswaps, with or without weapons.

[mr_road]

For the most part, AS is used because it's been put into people's toolset specifcally (Agent, Trader, MP) or because PvP damage output is lacking otherwise (Crat, Doc, Engineer, Fixer, Ranged Advy), although Ranged Advy changed somewhat with the pistol perk changes.

For those where 'PVP Damage' is lacking... its not so much that it is lacking outright, but it is lacking in that it takes too long to kill without it. 'Too long' being long enough so that the offenses of the opponent can start to have a real chance of killing the AS user.