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Thread: Late-week update on LLTS

  1. #241

    Arrow psuedocode

    characterDatabase.enableItemLogs() // leave this on forever

    oldScopes = characterDatabase.search(extreme low light targeting scope)

    doubledScopes = oldScopes.edit(QL = QL * 2.0)

    fixedScopes = doubledscopes.convert(targeting scope - vision enhancer)

    characterDatabase.replace(fixedScopes)

    characterDatabase.unequip(Util3)

    characterDatabase.add(FULL_IPR)
    or whatever

    Changing them for weapon types is a whole new (and very dumb) can of worms.

    Changing UVC/LMA/VS/SG to have ranged/melee init penalty would only fly if they fixed all weapon init types first, along with bow buffs (new nanos and for the bows themselves) Throw in a phys init bonus on crit buffs for good measure.

    One big fix for bows would be to give them a clipsize of -1 or 0 and pull ammo from inventory directly, you don't reload pure bows. Plus some of what they call crossbows sure look like bows to me. Maybe its just the wrong inits on them.
    mercatura -ae f. [trade, traffic; merchandise]

    Moved off-world and found real tradeskills...along with many other things

  2. #242
    " really feel sorry for the eng. that went MA but don't you have a bot?? Are you expecting to do same damage with your MA attack + whatever your bot deals?"
    well how much damage does a pet do while humping a table, wall, door or a chaire

    i only use pet at boss

    and pvp he is useless against all that can root/mezz/charm

  3. #243

    Cz

    Look at this Cz, FC took away the LLTS by not let them be able to drop as loot or reward, because they were to powerful. You also introduced a new scope, that wasn't as powerful.

    Now are FC going to nerf the LLTS because they again are too powerful, but still not make them able to drop. Where is the logic here Cz??? Why didn't you skip the first part, and nerfed them right away? Instead you are loosing your trust to the customers. I can't really see what you at FC are thinking...


    For my part would it be very nice to choose between two scopes, one based one WS and EE, and the other one on perception. This is perfect for the tradeskill professions, and the new one for combat/PvP professions.

    When you are going to nerf the scopes, you also have to lower the reqs (to wear them) and init penalty on the old LLTS to scale them like the new ones. In the future you also have to introduce LLTS going from QL1 to QL300 as the new ones goes from QL100 to QL400. Think about this, introduce two lines of scopes instead of what you are going to do.

    List to do:
    1. Lower the reqs to wear the LLTS, also scale down the critrate and init penalty
    2. Make the LLTS drop again from QL1 - QL200 (You removed them from game because they were too powerful, remember?)
    3. You also have to introduce the LLTS going from QL1 - QL300, when the new ones come from QL100-QL400.
    4. Everyone should be happy?


    And to last, please don't do this mistake again. What is the point to leave LLTS in game and not make them able to drop - and a couple of months nerf them like you are going to do, and still not make them able to drop? No logic, if you can explain this you are really good.

    Btw, this is not a negative post, I just want a comment from Cz on this issue. Please explain the logic !?!

  4. #244
    I think the logic, Krabbus, is that everybody make mistakes. Yes, this could have been handled better, but we didn't just remove the scope back then, and feel we have to do something now.

    I can tell you all that Gaute is working on a write-up for you. Gonna have it out today.

    /me starts reading the full thread

  5. #245
    Ok, now I'm going to cut to the point. The huge crit chance MAs can get in pvp at least is a problem, indeed. It's hardly possible to fight a MA without chainrooting him away, and by doing this you will no no chance of outdamaging his heals.

    ANYWAY

    The real problem is that LLTS doesn't drop anymore, while VE does. The problem this creates, is that the good old collection of exploiters and already uberly rich people (and yes, I'm somewhat one of them, I even have a ELLTS) will end up with alot higher crit chance than the current new chars. This is in no way fair.

    Solution;

    1) Nerf LLTS to equal VE
    2) Make LLTS drop again

    Keeping it as it is currently is simply too unfair, and creates an uber elite of those who has been around a while, and those who were able to dupe their creds without being busted for it. The Critical chance on any weapon/attack is so important, the difference between 15% and 8% is HUGE.

    And no, making QL400 VE's dropping for Ian Warr's daddy isn't going to bring balance to the game.

    Lich × Finalizer × Dictator × Vanguard × Techno Arch-Wizard × Godfather × Eternalist × Saviour × Deity × Guru


    'People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they never use' - Kierkegaard

  6. #246
    Originally posted by Toolwoman
    " really feel sorry for the eng. that went MA but don't you have a bot?? Are you expecting to do same damage with your MA attack + whatever your bot deals?"
    well how much damage does a pet do while humping a table, wall, door or a chaire

    i only use pet at boss

    and pvp he is useless against all that can root/mezz/charm
    Wallhumping isn't really all that bad tactics. Seriously..it ain't.. it could prove some use. I guess.

    Lich × Finalizer × Dictator × Vanguard × Techno Arch-Wizard × Godfather × Eternalist × Saviour × Deity × Guru


    'People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they never use' - Kierkegaard

  7. #247
    Well, the question is why would you do something that is even worse than it would have been by simply deleting them? All this talk in this thread is friggin' scary. Talking about total reworking of how so many professions play. You should see the stuff in there. It's bizzare.

    For the sake of certain individuals who have a particular item, we have these guys dictating who can use what weapon and who is to be marked obsolete.

    If the item is unbalancing, then balance it or remove it. You opened the floodgates of mouth frothing with calls for nerfs across all profession boundaries by suggesting that game mechanics be changed.

    It's only an item. Don't rewrite the game for the sake of one item.

    I'm angry enough I didn't get any recompense for my bracers when you nerfed them. Now you want to rip the scopes off the eyes of every melee user and not touch a gun user.

    IP reset is NOT recompense. There are cries up in that thread calling out for every Engineer, MP, Crat, and Trader who uses fists or a Melee weapon. We got fanatics up there who think there's something wrong with Jackie Chan shooting a gun.

    This is getting out of hand. You had it right the first time by offering to substitute other beneficial effects for the loss of 7% of crit. These guys would have you rewriting the game.

  8. #248
    One thing you can do to make you customers happy, is to leave all of the scopes up to 8% critchance alone, do nothing to them - and nerf every other scopes above 8% down to 8% and add a nice modifier on them...

    Let's say that LLTS up to QL100 stay the way it is now, but scopes above QL100 get lowered down to 8% critchance as max, but add another modifier that scales to balance the loss in critchance. This would be a nice fix. This way would the scopes still be better than the new ones, but still not as powerful...

  9. #249

    Post Some thoughts

    First, Cz, everybody makes mistakes - sure, we are all human (not that sure about Reality, but that migght be off topic ).
    But the consequences of the mistakes are quite different - means the ammount of people affected is different if FC makes one then when I make one.
    And, ...hrmmm, the list of mistakes by Funcom is not short.

    Now the constructive part:

    Actually, as you mentioned in the starting post, we are not talking about a scope or a what-so-ever-item that increases the chance to do a critical hit (-> massive increase in damage output), we are talking about percentages and game flow, am I right?

    Due to the possibility to stack several modifiers for the crit chance, some players are able to do massive ammounts of damage (over time) where others are not (avoiding the term profession here). This difference in performance is a major problem for the game designers. Where as 'Joe Normal' (me, e.g.) isn't able to handle an orange MOB on it's own 'Jim Power' slashes red Boss MOBs without major concerns. I should say, that I totally agree on the concept, that 'Jim Power' due to more online friends and time is much better equipped and experienced than 'Joe Normal' and thereby should be 'superior', but this leads to the following problems.
    1) Balancing (PvM). How to satisfy both? An exercise for 'Joe' will be no challenge for 'Jim' and 'Joe' will never manage to see the things 'Jim' is able to handle. Might lead to frustration on both sides!
    2) PvP (one of the so called major features of AO). You know the result of 'Joe' meets 'Jim'.

    Funcom's job is it, to keep the gap as small as possible without offending to many 'Jim's and 'Joe's.


    Coming back to the actual problem:
    If it is true, that some players can get above 40% crit chance, this has to be changed.

    This is a complex of multiple depending factors, that tends to get out of hand (-> Bionitrous).

    A crit should be something that is an exception - a critical hit. Coming from pen and paper role playing games (several), all the games I played usually tend to hold the overall chance for crits below 10%, and personally, I think this is the value where it should max (personal opinion).

    Nevertheless, this has to be regarded in a (mostly) complete context. Some specialists might be able to achieve higher chances, but then their overall damage output has to be controlled in another way. In more simple words, somebody who has devoted his complete life to physical training and martial arts should not be able to outdamage a professional soldier with a gun. I don't mind Jackie Chan using a shot gun, but I expect him not to hit 95 of 100 possible rings - more like 60-70. I expect him to make a nod into myself if we meet unarmed, but that's it.

    Famous citation:
    Interviewer: Mister Lee, what would you do, if you are confronted with a robber that aims with a gun at you and stands a couple of feet away?
    Bruce Lee: Raise my hands.

    I think, FC has to clean up on their crit enhancing items and buffs for the sake of overall balance. This game can't survive in the long term with a few 'Jim's, but needs a lot of 'Joe's. (The reason, why I possible won't log on again - what is in this game for the standard player?)

    So long,

    Max(imilian)
    100% curious

  10. #250
    if this is an MA problem which i can understand if it is. you can blame yourself FC, YOU brought this upon yerself with all the lovin ya gave the MAs with the major nerfs in other proffesion, self only critts.. and so on...why dont you look at the Procentage... ever wonder why the highest possible number in ALL lvl ranges are MAs?? Could it be that they are horribly unbalanced ?
    sure a new player MA isnt that horrid, but you HAVE to consider the really high lvls that has been around for ages and had the time to surmass an immense amount of Tweekable items.
    yes ELLTS and Crittbuffs are horrid, but you made the game. Before EVERYONE could use both crittbuffs and ELLTS...so there was some kind of balance, even if it was a twisted one,. Sure PVM was quicker with a running UVC and shiet..but still...
    Then the MAs Whined about their crits and you made them self only, Then they Whined about their heals vs Traders and you nerfed the Traders...Now they whine about the Soldier Reflect shields.....ohh dear. This game is goin down the toilett pretty quick.

    how friggin hard can it be to balance it???
    you made crittbuffs self only ( mas have both that AND horridly good heals , Nerf nerf nerfm, enfs got like...Essence.WOW )

    IF WHINE = ("the problem now is MAs..")then

    ELLTS: leave it, make it RAnged only, Nonstackable with Self only Critts, only the Mark nanos.

    FoB: change it entierly! make it an equillant to a ELLTS but for Melee and Phys init...Also here,. non stackable with Self only critt but only Mark nanos, that way all the ma docs and engis will still be "loved" somewhat....

    now then.....was that so hard??

    ELSE

    Make the ELLTS non Stackable with Any Critt buffs, leave em for both Melee, phys and Ranged init.

    END

    IE the problem isnt the Scopes themselves! its how they are used in conjunction with other Tactics that Define the high Critt increase many player have. end IE
    Last edited by Spluggorth; Oct 8th, 2002 at 10:45:05.

  11. #251

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