Mongo Rage Solution?

[Klodovik]

Except Advy is there any evaders that are OP? I dont think so... so i really don't get why it would be a good idea?!
Only ones to not perk this would be NTs so the overall ar would raise by 800...wtf?

I wouldn't perk it on MP. I wouldn't perk it on soldier, or on a trader... WTF?

we have poor intel psy and sense (making hotswaping very difficult). so if every one has access to it i want a few hundred intel psy and sense to compensate.

Errr... Huh?

[howlin]

MR is fine imo. You see it and you do what any other crat would do - use root graft.

[lostlife]

so if every one has access to the aao buff we should be compinsated for the loss of a very powerful tool is what i was saying. twinking is made much more difficult for atroxs, thats the tradeoff, so we were given mongo rage, which was over powered, now ai breed perks are being balanced so its not so overpowered any more (by comparison). if every breed gains the advantage of being trox, i want the disadvantages of being one to be decreased as well (to balance it, we are in the balance forum after all), hence the few hundred to sense intel and psy.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

there is absolutely 0 reasons to give atrox "a few hundred intel, psych"

How does this relate to MR?

Acrobat is NOT OP'd at 220, it IS OP'd at 140-170 for advy's

Acrobat is NOT OP'd at 140-170 for fixer or MA or shade.

MR doesn't need to be available at 140. Advy's just need a heavy nerf.

[lostlife]

im saying atrox loses a benifit (by comparison), so shouldnt we gain something to compensate, lets say acro was nerfed across the board to nerf advies, shouldn't MAs shades and fixers be given something to compensate for there loss? im saying the few hundred intel psy or sense could be that compensation, if any one has a better idea of what atroxs should get feal free to post your ideas

[McKnuckleSamwich]

im saying atrox loses a benifit (by comparison), so shouldnt we gain something to compensate, lets say acro was nerfed across the board to nerf advies, shouldn't MAs shades and fixers be given something to compensate for there loss? im saying the few hundred intel psy or sense could be that compensation, if any one has a better idea of what atroxs should get feal free to post your ideas

So, if MR perk damage is cut in half, you want to get a "couple hundred int sense psych" to compensate?

I am sorry, but this gets filed in the crazy bin for me.



I don't really see why MR dmg would be cut in half either, but, it's a suggestion that has at least a bit of reasoning behind it.

So far, no-one has said nerf MA's, nerf shades, and nerf fixers, so, acrobat itself isn't an issue; the issue is the combination of acrobat and coon and CH and insta's, and arguably the best evade mod weapon in game, need I go on.

MR alpha's are actually OP'd, but they will be less Op'd with the changes to the pre-req perk. What needs to be adressed then is how well profs can deal with the damage. MA's for example are already sitting on a -1000 evades disadvantage vs enforcer's, fixers might be able to avoid a MR alpha on sheer evades, but it would require timing. crats, AS-MP's, shades are still going to be gankbait.

[lostlife]

allright, you dont like the few hundred intel psy sense compensation, are you proposing that every one be given the option to perk a weaker version of MR (atrox losing it in the process) and not be given something to make up for the loss? if thats not what your saying, then what do you propose atroxs get? intel psy sense was only an idea i made in a short period of time. as for my acro comment, what im saying is that IF fc were to nerf it, shades MAs and fixers should be given something for there loss, because they need it to survive. the key word in that last sentance is if.

come on mcknuck, theres a easy rational to disprove what i said, find it already

[McKnuckleSamwich]

well if atrox's lost MR, and it became a "general" perkline, atroxes could of course spend some perks in atrox secondary.

Obviously, in this situation, atrox primary perk 10 would become something else.

Imo, there's already some good threads about how to nerf advies without disrupting the other evade profs.

To me, the real question is how to balance the profs that are 100% AR dependant, that is, keepers, soldiers using assault rilfe, and arguably shades, although they do have SA.

finding a way to give them reasonable offensive capabilities without screwing over the other profs who are evade dependant is the problem.

This problem is extended into TL5, where the problem becomes more pronounced, because the inequalities between certain professions are larger, and harder to overcome due to smaller toolsets.

[lostlife]

im not saying acro nerf should happen, im saying if, then the consequences of that if, and the solution to that consequence while comparing that situation to the nerfing of MR (in a loss/gain sense). also, why hasn't any one else given any alternative to my intel psy sense idea?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

rofl

thats cute, but, try hitting an evade prof with a keeper in an evade setup. That "SA" "rofl" isn't in the toolset, so ya, a shade could, *potentially* eventually kill a prof with 6 billion evades and no healing, whereas a keeper with no SA/AS could not, and neither could a soldier...

Am I clear?

@ lost: I don't see the relevance of low int+psych+sense. I don't understand why you are attempting to relate the loss of MR, a combat perk, with base stats.

[Marinegent]

Everyone on these forums get's so defense. You act like i'm not open to hearing what you have to say.

I came up with an Idea you guys. It's an idea, and only an idea. I also stated multiple times (i'm pretty sure..) that I'm open to modify what was in the original posts based on feedback.

Heh..

As far as bringing breed issues into this, I feel that the point is irrelevant seeing as how a breed change is incoming the same time this perk would change, If it would change at all. But that's just me.

[-Oheim-]

MA's for example are already sitting on a -1000 evades disadvantage vs enforcer's

Did you ever duel any half decent ma on enf? If you had you would probably know that you will land the nemesis nano in one of ten tries if you are lucky.
If the ma is not totally retarded you will be out of nano after the second try

Enforcers are already problematic, but thats because of challenger and a boatload of AAO procs. Solds aren't OP'd now, and I don't think they would be OP'd with this. But, advies and MA's on the other hand could become OP'd with it.

Lulz? Endgame Enfs in def setup have what? 3.1k static AR without Challenger? That makes around 3.4K with challenger wich means some drawbacks (no rage, chain-layering, imub etc.)
Procs don´t matter much because they are purely luck dependant and you can´t rely on them.

ASR Soli can get much more STATIC AR (4k+) then enf without loosing much def.

In contrast to that you will drop like a fly if you push AR above 4k with an endgame enf.

[Klodovik]

In contrast to that you will drop like a fly if you push AR above 4k with an endgame enf.

So will your opponent.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Did you ever duel any half decent ma on enf? If you had you would probably know that you will land the nemesis nano in one of ten tries if you are lucky.
If the ma is not totally retarded you will be out of nano after the second try



Lulz? Endgame Enfs in def setup have what? 3.1k static AR without Challenger? That makes around 3.4K with challenger wich means some drawbacks (no rage, chain-layering, imub etc.)
Procs don´t matter much because they are purely luck dependant and you can´t rely on them.

ASR Soli can get much more STATIC AR (4k+) then enf without loosing much def.

In contrast to that you will drop like a fly if you push AR above 4k with an endgame enf.

Yea, theres a whole lot of unsubstantiated garbled "In my pvp experience such and such" goign on here.

There is a world of difference between a "evade" setup enf, a "well" set up enf and a "4k AR" setup enf. I don't know when a enf sets up for 3.1k static evades, and gz if they want too, but I have no idea why they would do that against a MA.

If an enforcer is out of nano after two casts on slowdown, he's a effing knob. Good enfs don't need to land slowdown more than once anyway, so, whichever way you cut it, either youre a knob enf, or you don't know how to set up properly to fight a MA.

If you have MR, you pop it after slowdown lands, and, if you don't have MR, you wait 40 seconds before spamming it, or count 15 seconds after the MA uses UWOS. you shouldn't need to spam it if you pay attention.

Theres lots of items in game too which contribute to nano, so, again, even if a MA dries you up of nano, you can still use a notum focus, FA stims, nano prepared kits, and genius, which is more than enough too get off 4 slowdowns. So, better touch up on your item usage.

Finally, procs are luck dependant. If you want procs to land, hit your opponent. I'll tell you with 100% certainty, if you don't want procs to land, don't ht your opponent. But, if you want your procs to go off, hit your opponent. It's not that hard, pop a flurry, slowdown, use fast attack/brawl/SA. if it doesn't pop, keep trying or pop a challenger. Theres several ways to beat a MA as enf. If you can't do it, you're doing somethign wrong. Enfs have more anti MA tools than every other prof.

[randomalpha]

So, if MR perk damage is cut in half, you want to get a "couple hundred int sense psych" to compensate?

I am sorry, but this gets filed in the crazy bin for me.



I don't really see why MR dmg would be cut in half either, but, it's a suggestion that has at least a bit of reasoning behind it.

So far, no-one has said nerf MA's, nerf shades, and nerf fixers, so, acrobat itself isn't an issue; the issue is the combination of acrobat and coon and CH and insta's, and arguably the best evade mod weapon in game, need I go on.

MR alpha's are actually OP'd, but they will be less Op'd with the changes to the pre-req perk. What needs to be adressed then is how well profs can deal with the damage. MA's for example are already sitting on a -1000 evades disadvantage vs enforcer's, fixers might be able to avoid a MR alpha on sheer evades, but it would require timing. crats, AS-MP's, shades are still going to be gankbait.

Man u just talking to ur self , can't hear , read other posts and if u do u don't understand it at all
we just saying that the only advantage that atrox have is MR and this advantage we have as trade for the gimpy sense/psy/intil which lead to gimpy evades , nano skills and some skills like AS etc so if u think that MR should be general perk so why should any one roll atrox then .. . delete the breed out of the game then and i will mention this for the 10th time on this forums and i hope u and others understand it <i know u will not understand at all coz lostlife fail to reach u in like 4-5 posts but well thats my shoot>
each breed have big advantage over other breeds i will mention the general advantage will not go in details coz am sick of saying this again and again . .

Opi the easiest breed to twink end game alpha w/o much of twinking items and got best evades over all other breeds due to the green sense , agility. .

NM best nano casters u can self ur nanos in lower lvl before others can do (I MEAN THOSE NANOS W/O LVL REQUIRED ) also have 5k cocon

soli well balanced breed and best look imo don't need much items to twink alpha and can cast his stuff w/o much of pain and got decent breed perks or at least not too bad ..

well atrox in case of losing MR it will be retarded that any one will go roll atrox then , so i am asking u if the atrox losing MR what u supposed atrox should have ? and if u think the green stam/str are enough u are wrong coz itis the easiest ability to buff in the game so plz work ur mind before posting

[PingBong]

But, as it stands, 1500 aao is over powered.

as long as there are people unkillable without it its not.

[navycut]

as long as there are people unkillable without it its not.

Really, so apart from shades, who else needs MR to kill evaders? (keepers are nerfed atm anyway so they don't really count)

Also, 1500 AAO is wayyy too much, evades are some prof's only defense and MR just bypasses all defenses.

I'm pretty sure you unperked MR anyway on your enf since you got your overpowered 50% perks, so what are you complaining about again?

[PingBong]

Really, so apart from shades, who else needs MR to kill evaders? (keepers are nerfed atm anyway so they don't really count)

Also, 1500 AAO is wayyy too much, evades are some prof's only defense and MR just bypasses all defenses.

I'm pretty sure you unperked MR anyway on your enf since you got your overpowered 50% perks, so what are you complaining about again?

now ur just demonstrating ur lack of knowledge about the game, 2 damage perks (one of them crappy)+sa and even dimach isnt nearly enough to kill anything so yea my mr is still very much trained. also note that i have to swap for offense and wait for challproc to be able to perk the best MAs with mr AND slowdown, the only way im perking the best fixers is when i get lucky and my MR happens to be in that 25 seconds out of 65 when dof is down. Shades i can only MR-perk during the first 5 seconds of the encounter, after that SP perks do their thing and i cant, infact the only evade prof that MR is functional against all the time is advy but they have coon, a big perkheal and instant heals so they can just shrug it off anyway.

Shades have ~400 more static AR then enfs, for nonstatic part they get -evade proc, blur and in nonduel situations SP drains so yah if shades need MR then enfs REALLY need MR.

as for 1.5k being too much i could say the same about acro, +390-990 static or +1190 max evades is wayyy too much, perks are enfos only real offense and acro just bypasses all offense

[-Oheim-]

... If you can't do it, you're doing somethign wrong. Enfs have more anti MA tools than every other prof.

I did not say that it is impossible to kill a good ma as an enf, but it is green to think you will land slowdown on good ma´s in a duel.
I don´t know how good rk1 and rk2 ma´s do in duels, but i can tell you that you will hit the best pvp ma´s on rk3 with slowdown in one of ten tries if you are lucky. And in a duel vs ma you got better things to do then trying to hit the ma in 10th try.
Even with ND right wrist you will be out of nano after the second try anywas and need the nano stims and notum focus offers for surviving.

It is easier to land it on not so well geared ma´s, but vs them you wont need slowdwon

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I did not say that it is impossible to kill a good ma as an enf, but it is green to think you will land slowdown on good ma´s in a duel.
I don´t know how good rk1 and rk2 ma´s do in duels, but i can tell you that you will hit the best pvp ma´s on rk3 with slowdown in one of ten tries if you are lucky. And in a duel vs ma you got better things to do then trying to hit the ma in 10th try.
Even with ND right wrist you will be out of nano after the second try anywas and need the nano stims and notum focus offers for surviving.

It is easier to land it on not so well geared ma´s, but vs them you wont need slowdwon

from my experience, and this is against the best enfs on RK2 (forz, marbreth, troxxorz, impetu), the fight goes 1 of two ways: 1, pop coon during countdown, if MA uses UWOS wait 10s, then spam, which usually take only 2-3 times to land, pop MR and alpha, or, 2. pop MR on countdown, hit flurry, SA dimach AI perks, and by the time the ma gets out of perk queue hes dead.

It doesn't matter though, I agree there is way's to defend against enfs, it's just that if a prof is your nemesis, you have to expect there is an easy out.

The problem for MA's is slowdown + MR is a brutal combination, and, I have NO idea what mcstabby is talking about when he says some MA's aren't perkable with slowdown and MR running, thats BS, I never seen that in my life, even in a full evade setup.

@ random, uh, whatever, I'm not suggesting it should be a general perkline, marinegent is. I've only been discussing it. what I've been saying is that I'd prefer if MR was available at perk 5 and scaled up from like 50 AAO to 200 AAO or something, and then the big brother MR perk added another 1000 on top of that.