Mongo Rage Solution?

[Marinegent]

Okay, just an idea, but I was thinking and this is what I came up with.

Rolling atrox for the sake of +1500 aao is stupid, I think an aao boost should be open to all breeds. But, as it stands, 1500 aao is over powered. So.. heres a small idea..

Make a new general perk line that uses SL perks, NOT ai perks. Make it between 8 and 10 perks total. The new perk line includes a "new" mongo rage that is +800 AAO for 15 seconds, no drawback (debatable? maybe small drawback of sorts..).

The new perk line is open to anyone who wants to use it, but every profession has to make a huge sacrifice in order to get it. Sacrificing SL perks affects everyone massively so the people who get the new MR are going to have a severe trade off somewhere. It's also less over powered than the current 1500+ aao MR, and this now opens up the ability for trox breed perks to get some adjustments that are better deserved than a joke HoT or AC buff.


Thoughts?

Keep in mind this is meant as a nerf to MR and those who rely on MR. It's designed to make access to MR require sacrifice, which makes it less OP by far, and opening it to everyone allows for equal opportunity to perk it and circumvent evade professions should they desire to go that route.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

sounds interesting.

I'd like to see the perk become available at 140 though and offer 200 AAO at that time for 10 seconds.

which unfortunately would screw over MP's and crats, to my knowledge, but bring some balance to the acrobat classes.

[Marinegent]

I'd be open to perhaps making it a scaling perk.

It would then offer some people who dont have 8 or 10 SL perks to spare an option too.

Hmm...

Let's go with the idea of 10 perks. The line adds.. lets say.. a few points of heal delta, a few points of nano delta, and a few points of AAO each perk.

Level 10 : 1 - 2 HD/2 ND/2 AAO
Level 30 : 2 - 3 HD/3 ND/2 AAO
Level 60 : 3 - 5 HD/3 ND/3 AAO
Level 80 : 4 - 6 HD/4 ND/3 AAO *Mongo Rage perk stage 1 - 50 AAO*
Level 100 : 5 - 6 HD/4 ND/4 AAO *Mongo Rage perk stage 2 - 100 AAO*
Level 120 : 6 - 6 HD/4 ND/4 AAO *Mongo Rage perk stage 3 - 150 AAO*
Level 150 : 7 - 6 HD/4 ND/4 AAO *Mongo Rage perk stage 4 - 250 AAO*
Level 215 : 8 - 10 HD/6 ND/6 AAO *Mongo Rage perk stage 5 - 800 AAO*

What do you all think?

Total HD = 44 / Total ND = 30 / Total AAO = 30.

Gives a slight boost to natural healing and natural nano delta, for the sake of having some kind of benefit when the perk isn't in use. And a slight boost to AAO, again, for the sake of boosting somewhere naturally.

The numbers might need work, but there's my "etch-a-sketch rough draft at 1:15 am when i should be sleeping instead".

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The main prob I can see is that it's a fairly significant investment.

Like, off hand, I can't think of one prof who could really afford to perk it except maybe a GA4 fixer

The professions who would need it or might need it would be professions that require perk damage or debuffs to kill their opponent, so that would be in order of most needed to least needed a list something like this:

1. keeper
2. shade
3. soldier
4. everyone else

Offhand, a keeper is already absolutely screwed for SL perks at 150-215 or so, shades I don't know, but I think they'de be giving up a massive part of their toolset in either damage perks, piercing skill and damage perks, or evasion perks, and finally soldiers who would be giving up a whack load of static AR and AR skill for a temporary bonus.

I think the idea is interesting, but, I just don't see it being feasible unless it's in an AI line, unless there are very serious changes occuring to the general SL perk lines.

the other thing that might be worth suggesting is to move it to the general tab, change it to AI perks, and change the name of it to something not atrox related, and nerf it a bit more, so it's available to everyone. considering that 100% of the professions try to be an "evade" prof, maybe everyone should have access to it?

[Parranoid1]

put forward this idea is fine, but not the tl5 aspect of it, leave that out. dont need a 200-250 aao boost at that level. mcnuckle just thinks acro profs are OP couse he plays keeper and has trouble with them or somethnig, but in reality they arnt gods ;P

for example... my enfo with 1 proc has around 2100 AR, now imagine that AR + say, 250? 2350 AR....thats bonkers, and not needed, keep in mind that atm ai perks add aao twice, and after rebalance those ai perks will be given lower def check to compensate... so... with that thing id expect to see ppl perking acro toons thru dof, which would basically break acro profs at tl5, not worth it for the sake of the few struggling. FC should look into those profs on how to fix them rather then implementing a possible TL breaking perk line...

[Marinegent]

Well noobas, the WHOLE point to moving this to an SL perk line is to make it what I like to call "a sacrificial investment".

You want +800 aao on demand? That's fair I think. But your gonna give up something for it.

This games problem is that everyone wants everything all the time. The only way I forsee balance is if people choose one or the other.

Why are advy's op? They got everything. Heals, Coon, Evades, low Def check Perks, you name it. To move away from that, you make people choose.

The reason "Cookie cutter" is a problem, is because they often involve setups that include massive amounts of EVERYTHING.

So, thats what the point of this is. You make a choice to give up those perks or not, Nobodys forcing you to. But if you want some extra AAO on demand... here's how you get it.

[Marinegent]

put forward this idea is fine, but not the tl5 aspect of it, leave that out. dont need a 200-250 aao boost at that level. mcnuckle just thinks acro profs are OP couse he plays keeper and has trouble with them or somethnig, but in reality they arnt gods ;P

for example... my enfo with 1 proc has around 2100 AR, now imagine that AR + say, 250? 2350 AR....thats bonkers, and not needed, keep in mind that atm ai perks add aao twice, and after rebalance those ai perks will be given lower def check to compensate... so... with that thing id expect to see ppl perking acro toons thru dof, which would basically break acro profs at tl5, not worth it for the sake of the few struggling. FC should look into those profs on how to fix them rather then implementing a possible TL breaking perk line...

Fair enough point, maybe tune the numbers down some, but I don't see many people using this perkline sub being able to perk it fully without some kind of other investment.

Drop the numbers until the final stage a bit, or come up with an idea for a second perk action that isn't involved around an AAO boost. Perhaps a HoT or something?

It's past 2am so my brain is running out of ideas atm.


edit : sorry for double post. like i said its getting late and i cant think.

[randomalpha]

Okay, just an idea, but I was thinking and this is what I came up with.

Rolling atrox for the sake of +1500 aao is stupid, I think an aao boost should be open to all breeds. But, as it stands, 1500 aao is over powered. So.. heres a small idea..

Make a new general perk line that uses SL perks, NOT ai perks. Make it between 8 and 10 perks total. The new perk line includes a "new" mongo rage that is +800 AAO for 15 seconds, no drawback (debatable? maybe small drawback of sorts..).

The new perk line is open to anyone who wants to use it, but every profession has to make a huge sacrifice in order to get it. Sacrificing SL perks affects everyone massively so the people who get the new MR are going to have a severe trade off somewhere. It's also less over powered than the current 1500+ aao MR, and this now opens up the ability for trox breed perks to get some adjustments that are better deserved than a joke HoT or AC buff.


Thoughts?

Keep in mind this is meant as a nerf to MR and those who rely on MR. It's designed to make access to MR require sacrifice, which makes it less OP by far, and opening it to everyone allows for equal opportunity to perk it and circumvent evade professions should they desire to go that route.

1st of all whoever roll trox make sacrifice smiply coz they take the ugly look and the gimpy nano skills , CL and all sense/psy/int independent skills , and as sold u can't keep 300 CSS out of OE so the sacrifice alr made when u roll trox , y u and others who whining about MR didn't roll trox instead of crying about MR in 19238719 thread is the prove that u guys can't stand the gimpy evades , nano skills , trade skills , or itis dump look

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I can appreciate randomalpha's dueling skillz, but his engrish I have problems with.

@ paranoid, I don't have problems with acrobat profs, I got a problem with advies.

And, I don't think it's fair that if "only atrox" has MR then every other breed is at a disadvantage.

Instead, I think it's more important to tone down the defensive skills/perks of advies, since most other profs (that I have problems with aren't that OP'd.

I have prblems with MA, I won't lie, 1:40 of 350 AAD+ 200/800, AND FoL to debuff me to hell is a serious issue, but, it's being targetted, as the ciB is goign to 30 sec, which will mean that there won't be 3/4 of the fight where I can't hit the dude.

Also, if the heal cost goes up a bit, it will be easier to run em out of nano. So that problem will be better too. Again, the only problem is advies. Advies are 2 worlds ahead of every other prof at TL5, and yes, I admit I have problems with them, and yes I think it's possible that adding a mini mongo will screw up other evade profs, but hell, think about it...

If mini mongo is 200 AAO, and the "true" evade profs have an extra 350 AAD up their sleeve for 30 seconds, thats not really a imbalance, it *should* only affect advies who don't have another evade buff to fire off. The only problem that I can see is all of a sudden you'll have the big three AR classes rolling with burst 2100+ AR, thats keeper, enf and sold, with enf and sold beign monster AR.

Enforcers are already problematic, but thats because of challenger and a boatload of AAO procs. Solds aren't OP'd now, and I don't think they would be OP'd with this. But, advies and MA's on the other hand could become OP'd with it.

[MyGift]

1st of all whoever roll trox make sacrifice smiply coz they take the ugly look and the gimpy nano skills , CL and all sense/psy/int independent skills , and as sold u can't keep 300 CSS out of OE so the sacrifice alr made when u roll trox , y u and others who whining about MR didn't roll trox instead of crying about MR in 19238719 thread is the prove that u guys can't stand the gimpy evades , nano skills , trade skills , or itis dump look

As much as i like idea of OP... THIS! Most ppl that whine about MR dont have atrox and dont know what pain is to swap items/twink/play him...For example on my keeper i need to swap things to be able to equip nano buffing items to buff my self ...so swap so u can swap...Also psy/int/sense items are hard to keep out of OE, got problems with nano,nano skills, after NM proly hardest to twink, cant even use alb nano drain ring cause of req.

I have 220 trox agent that i didnt rly like cause of things i just said(nano cost/nano/nano skills/swaping items/low static ar/evades) so i decided to make opi...on 219 lvl w/o 9/10 res that my trox agent had. i had more ar, more def,more nr, and preform in pvp 10 times better. Could swap everything with just right click and i will change my atrox agent in opi asap. MR=overrated.

[Marinegent]

1st of all whoever roll trox make sacrifice smiply coz they take the ugly look and the gimpy nano skills , CL and all sense/psy/int independent skills , and as sold u can't keep 300 CSS out of OE so the sacrifice alr made when u roll trox , y u and others who whining about MR didn't roll trox instead of crying about MR in 19238719 thread is the prove that u guys can't stand the gimpy evades , nano skills , trade skills , or itis dump look

You will be able to change breed after the rebalancing.

Change to whatever you want, and then use this new MR perk line. You wont be forced atrox forever. That's the idea.

[randomalpha]

that was my point , to buff i have to swap loads of items and the biggest pain as soldier when i swap any of my bracers to reflect bracers coz then i swap gloves , weapons , 3 huds , 3 Utils , rings , back , pads , head symb to put it back , away form that i am staying with gimpy nano skills and stick with ams III , not to mention there is some alpha's i am forbid to wear coz i am trox like alpha chest , head , Right hand , left arm , 300EOE . . . and after all , i am paying 10 AI perks for those 10s
u think thats not enough ?

[randomalpha]

You will be able to change breed after the rebalancing.

Change to whatever you want, and then use this new MR perk line. You wont be forced atrox forever. That's the idea.

same goes to u , u can change urs to atrox if u think itis kewl
otherwise remove the breed from the game . .

[chaosaddict]

Nerf evades and we wouldnt need to use MR.
for example.
its almost impossible for an enforcer to kill an advy without mr.
good idea.
but MR isnt the problem.

[Ciex]

Is 1000 evades from acrobat also overpowered?

[ephedrae]

Agree with chaos, cause 800 aao to EVERYONE would make evades useless anyway. I'd much more welcome a complete removal of evades for introducing more viable defenses which stay very prof locked. Because obviously noone will ever be satisfied with either mr nerfs or evade adjustments.

Is 1000 evades from acrobat also overpowered?

Since you're a shade and it's your only chance to survive at all...no? Does that apply to mr? no? ^^

[Ciex]

If some people can spend 4 perks to get 1k def rating for 30s with 30s cooldown i see nothing wrong with other people spending 10 perks to get 1,5 aao for 10s every 2 minutes so they have a chance to kill those with acrobat...

Since you're a shade and it's your only chance to survive at all...no? Does that apply to mr? no? ^^

So MY stuff is NEVER overpowered? Yeah, i see this pattern here on forums.

[Klodovik]

Nerf evades and we wouldnt need to use MR.
for example.
its almost impossible for an enforcer to kill an advy without mr.
good idea.
but MR isnt the problem.

Maybe you aren't meant to kill an adv easy like that. Just like fixer ain't able to kill a NT, or enf ain't able to kill a soldier, or SoZ MP to kill a trader, etc...

Yes, good idea to make it general perkline.

[ephedrae]

Yes, good idea to make it general perkline.

Except Advy is there any evaders that are OP? I dont think so... so i really don't get why it would be a good idea?!
Only ones to not perk this would be NTs so the overall ar would raise by 800...wtf?

[lostlife]

I agree if all breeds loose there ai breed perk actions and you add tackyhack, damage to nano, and absorb attacks specials to it. Mongo rage is the most powerful (over all), and thats for a reason, that reason being that we have poor intel psy and sense (making hotswaping very difficult). so if every one has access to it i want a few hundred intel psy and sense to compensate.