The Agent profession

[Klodovik]

Looking forward to you picking through this post, focusing on only irrelevent details and missing the main point here. Though I'd much rather you engage in intelligent conversation.

So, what exactly do you want? So far, it seems like you want acrobat or bio shielding and even more killing power.

If that's not dumb to ask, I don't know what is.

[Provision]

So then in return give everyone a couple seconds of god-mode to ALL professions as agents have in bailout nanos?

[torakx]

thats a very nice idea. i would love to see agents get a defensive action and let everyone else see exactly how uber the bailout nanos are.
i wouldnt even be the least bothered it it was given to everyone it is that little needed for an agent.

[Klodovik]

thats a very nice idea. i would love to see agents get a defensive action and let everyone else see exactly how uber the bailout nanos are.
i wouldnt even be the least bothered it it was given to everyone it is that little needed for an agent.

Why stop there. Let's allow every profession to use mimic, artillery symbs, high damage dealing perks, 100% cap hit every 11 sec...

[torakx]

no no just the famous agent bailout
should get a few laughs.
i know from experience its like rage for an enforcer except lasts only a few seconds and isnt worth the debuff after. most times you cant lose people in such a short time unless your massively over buffed compared to them.

plus an agent trying to kill fast is not going to exist now according to funcom.so why do we need a bailout nano when we will be dead before we have killed the target and actually need the bailout nano?

please keep in mind i am considering this from a perspective of not just mimic doc or mimic sol.but it still applies heavily to them also.

[Ebondevil]

So, what exactly do you want?

Agents Mimic and Defensive toolset to be brought into a Post SL era instead of being pretty much stuck with Froob tools.

The dev's made a start on that by allowing Agents minimal access to some SL nano lines a while back, but more work still needs to be done and with the balancing incoming, Aimed shot getting a defence check (or 3 second interruptible cast), heals also getting nerfed, now is the time to do that work..

[torakx]

is there any news on when this is coming to test.
as we will never fully know how good/bad this change is until we go out and pvp with it for a week.
i would hope if they release it as is and we need a defence on top of current changes it will actually be aknowledged and looked into.
its a big worry when you dont kno0w what they expect to get out of the agent profession anymore.
a bit of info from the game director would help us alot to know what to suggest.

[Klodovik]

Agents Mimic and Defensive toolset to be brought into a Post SL era instead of being pretty much stuck with Froob tools.

You got access to two combined froob toolsets at once (practically), anything more then that would be OP'd and I hope devs are aware of that.

[ArienSky]

You got access to two combined froob toolsets at once (practically), anything more then that would be OP'd and I hope devs are aware of that.

Having RRFE while being trader does not count as "two combined froob toolsets", everyone can get RRFE, if you take a look at it, there are very few buffs that agents can use mimic, that are self-only my qualified guess is about 1-2 percent. And they are not the big influencual ones, most of teh buffs you can get from anyone of the real profession.

Please look at the data Klod.
And then give examples of what you call "two combined froob toolsets" that is so over-powered?
.. please list the buff combinations you think are over-powered..
and you can get the question right away: Can't you just make that combination of buffs, and even better ones by getting them from someone of the real profession?

RRFE + Fixer long HOT(agents can't mimic that) + ENF shield and steamroller + DOC Heal Delta + MP CI..

very doable for everyone.. it does nto make an Agent special having OSBs(OutSideBuffs) and Agents can only use one profession at a time, then they will have to wait 20 min.. 220 Agents can skip that waiting time and buff from two professions..
But still not get anything everyone else can get: OSBs.

of cause devs are aware of Agents and _everyone else_ being able to get buffs, it is part of AO game mechanics..


Have you tried playing an agent in PVM?
I don't mean kite or pocket teams, but things like DR, ToTW Formans office, missions or even doing the SL garden quests..

Having no panic button or active defence is a serious handicap, and makes a boring profession.

As I have described before: Agents only have nano-panic buttons: NT NS and DOC CH..
Trader heals are nice too, giving an active defence (healing up), but that is it. The calms do not work in SL, and while crat shines in RK missions, it is of little use in SL, especially at higher lvls, where every mob resists.


Before you can complain about something, you need to have tried it.
Please try playing an Agent, then try Adventurer, Trader, Fixer, MP, Keeper, Shade, Engineer, Crat, Doc and tell me if you really thought you had an easier time on the Agent, than the other professions.
(OP means "Over Powered", meaning more powerful than the rest, even too powerful.. is that really what you mean? that Agent is easier playing than Adventurer, Traders and Crats?)

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

[Kinkstaah]

So, what exactly do you want? So far, it seems like you want acrobat or bio shielding and even more killing power.

If that's not dumb to ask, I don't know what is.

There are plenty of threads (some good, some.. not) that describe what agents want.

What do *I* personally want? More flexibility. This would come in the form of:
1) More AR (temporarily). Ideally through a fix to the Gnat Wing nano line. +300 AR for 30 seconds, with 0s cooldown (it has a massive nano cost) would make this nano actually worth using, and situationally good.

Currently, its barely used due to Agent low AR, the fact it has an 8s recharge, and the more important fact that an agent is constantly in Nano recharge anyway.

2) Better Deroot/Desnare options, again due to the issue above with CH recharge.

3) Better sneak speed, to make more practical use of concealment in choosing a good oppourtune time to attack.

4) More logical FP options, to make other MIMICS more attractive in combat.

5) Revamp of crap perks (for the most part, done).

6) an ability to remove debuffs in combat. (like a usable-in-fight-that-doesnt require sitting Virus Scanner, that also removes RI, GTH) - But I believe everyone should get this.

How about an Agent Only scope should show up, giving +336 Rifle as opposed to +336 AS if they change the attack skill on Concussive Shot and other perks. Or +336 to both? Or +336 AAO?. This may be moot if they change Gnats wing, though. But it'd certainly push people away from def setups.

Or perhaps the best of all, make CH have an 0s recharge, but an 8s cooldown for reuse, so agents actually have the ability to use the rest of their toolset (roots, nano stun, DEroots, Bail Out nanos, Gnats wing, etc)

These are more tweaks, and far more intelligent than saying "lol I want blockers and an AS weapon and better pets, oh and cocoon" which is what MP's got for their fix.

And it's certainly not asking for Bio Coccoon or Acrobat which would also be stupid fixes for the Agent profession. Don't necessarily need "ALL" of the above, but they would make the class a lot more fun to play, make sense, and assist in areas Agents really do have problems in.

[Klodovik]

Please look at the data Klod.
And then give examples of what you call "two combined froob toolsets" that is so over-powered?

Shield ripper, reflects and CH at the same time.

of cause devs are aware of Agents and _everyone else_ being able to get buffs, it is part of AO game mechanics..

OK, don't come crying to me when they remove TP from you.

Have you tried playing an agent in PVM?

I have.

I don't mean kite or pocket teams, but things like DR, ToTW Formans office, missions or even doing the SL garden quests..

Yes, I have tried it.

Having no panic button or active defence is a serious handicap, and makes a boring profession.

Try using FP MP for that lowbie content.

As I have described before: Agents only have nano-panic buttons: NT NS and DOC CH..

Yeah, "only".

Before you can complain about something, you need to have tried it.

I have.

Please try playing an Agent, then try Adventurer, Trader, Fixer, MP, Keeper, Shade, Engineer, Crat, Doc and tell me if you really thought you had an easier time on the Agent, than the other professions.

I tried. No, I'm not having easier time. But it's way easier to play then, say... Doc. Doc is freakin' boring, with its low damage. Should we give it shade damage?

(OP means "Over Powered", meaning more powerful than the rest, even too powerful.. is that really what you mean? that Agent is easier playing than Adventurer, Traders and Crats?)

It's way easier then trader, that's for sure.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

Not so kind Regards
-Klodovik

These are more tweaks, and far more intelligent than saying "lol I want blockers and an AS weapon and better pets, oh and cocoon" which is what MP's got for their fix.

Who on earth ever asked for such stupid things? Not me and no other MP did.

I so wish you get such fix, so you can later bitch about it and its uselessness, like we MPs do today.

[Kinkstaah]

Who on earth ever asked for such stupid things? Not me and no other MP did.

I so wish you get such fix, so you can later bitch about it and its uselessness, like we MPs do today.

I used it as an example of a BAD fix, a fix which really does make the class a lot better than it was, and for awhile there pretty damn OP, by adding stupid additions instead of using their brains (improving debuffs, making debuffs do damage, improving pets, giving pet buffs which do different things to the MP's opponents, being able to customise and tweak all 3 pets, improving nukes, etc)

Saying reflect ripper is OP is just dumb, proving you dont really know how it works. When it works, which is 1% of the time it seems OP, but really it isnt, given its refresh is every 20s.. it has to land, agents have terrible nanoskills, and its melee range, etc. The only way people can get affected by it is by not understanding how it actually works.

[srompu]

Why stop there. Let's allow every profession to use mimic, artillery symbs, high damage dealing perks, 100% cap hit every 11 sec...

True this. Not only are our perks uniquely high damage , but without mimic we pvp just fine , we never wanted access to support symbs and AS caps 100%, folks, that's right, through coon, HP, reflects, instakill, folks . Real AS comes only from Agents, folks .

I have. Yes, I have tried it. Try using FP MP for that lowbie content. I have.

Oh yeah, and I've tried soloing the Beast on a NM Shade.

Shield ripper, reflects and CH at the same time.

Hey, look at that Agent go! Never mind RRFE lands on Docs and they have heals too, look at that RIPPPPAAAARRR. He's liek destroying that shield MP with the RIIIPPPPPAAARRRR which ticks every 20s and has 100% NR check it's the RIIIPAPPPAAAAAARRR.

Perhaps you meant RRFE in particular. I can provide similar illustrative examples for that also.



On topic: I agree Agents should get some additional defense or kill power.

[sultryvoltron]

True this. Not only are our perks uniquely high damage , but without mimic we pvp just fine , we never wanted access to support symbs and AS caps 100%, folks, that's right, through coon, HP, reflects, instakill, folks . Real AS comes only from Agents, folks .

Oh yeah, and I've tried soloing the Beast on a NM Shade.

Hey, look at that Agent go! Never mind RRFE lands on Docs and they have heals too, look at that RIPPPPAAAARRR. He's liek destroying that shield MP with the RIIIPPPPPAAARRRR which ticks every 20s and has 100% NR check it's the RIIIPAPPPAAAAAARRR.

Perhaps you meant RRFE in particular. I can provide similar illustrative examples for that also.



On topic: I agree Agents should get some additional defense or kill power.

Come on baby! Don't fear the RIIIIIPPPPPAAAAAARRRRR.

[MyGift]

I cant belive ill actually replay on klods post cause clearly he is here only to troll and have no clue about agent but whata hell...


About ur statement that agent would be OP if they have more then 2 mimics available.

Atm i have 782 NCUs on my agent if i go fp doc+solja which i usually do, i dont have enough NCU to use all buffs i need. adding fixers NCU buff on top of that would give me some extra NCU so i can use my crit nanos. So doc+fixer+solja=enough ncu for doc+solja+agent nanos. Agent is very limited with NCUs so using alot of Fpable nanos isnt a option even if we have access to all those nanos at once.

"only NS and CH" as panic buttons. First we can use one of those at the time. U obviously dont know what "panic button" means. Panic button is thing u hit when ur normal defense fails (CH in agent case) and we dont have that.


@ "Shield ripper, reflects and CH at the same time." If u mean engi NSD by shield ripper we can already have engi reflect(which is litle less effective then RRFE)+NSD+CH and guess what, that dosnt stop anyone from debuffing us and kill us defenseless when we cant use CH.

[Cyberleet]

Give us a fair chance to take out single-targets when infiltrating enemygroups, and improve escape-tools.

It's a nerve-wrecking and exiting game-moment for both parts.

Ideally through a fix to the Gnat Wing nano line. +300 AR for 30 seconds, with 0s cooldown (it has a massive nano cost) would make this nano actually worth using, and situationally good.

Not only in pvp, but also in pvm.

Lowbie agents with MP-pets for example can't cast roots/sureshot effectively due to False-debuff.

The Tranq and Soften-Up perks are not CC-tools, but fighting tools for agent, to keep them at bay as long as possible.

[Klodovik]

I cant belive ill actually replay on klods post cause clearly he is here only to troll and have no clue about agent but whata hell...

Just because I don't agree with you people getting acro or bio shielding, or similar defense, doesn't mean that my replies can be categorized as trolling.

P.S.
I never said you will be OP'd if you get more then two mimics available at the same time, I said anything more then that (you know, access to acrobat, or some similar silly stuff) would make you OP'd. Stop putting words in my mouth.

[ArienSky]

"only NS and CH" as panic buttons. First we can use one of those at the time. U obviously dont know what "panic button" means. Panic button is thing u hit when ur normal defense fails (CH in agent case) and we dont have that.

Well, my problem is the underlined part, see, I seldom go doc, if I can avoid it, hence there is no panic button, apart from going NT, which is my favorite SL team profession. (Trader for RK contents).
Agents need there own Panic Button usable in FP also, as we do not inherent the Panic Buttons of the profession we FP/mimic..

Klod, Panic Buttons gives you the possibility to make a mistake, get safe, and let the team help you.
And in soloing, it will save you from wandering and spawning mobs just outright killing you.

Playing an agent you will have to know very specificity what you can kill; any surprices and you will die.
Other professions with Panic Buttons have a saviour (Cocoon has saved me soooooo many times from the death of spawning monsters).
The agent goes splat.

Sure I mention two panic buttons, but it is implicit that you need mimic to use that.. lvl 90 super twink agents or 150-160 more regular ones.
Your answer to low lvl PVM as agent is MP pets..
Sure the 2 hour extension made a whole new (happier, easier) life for agents, but are they a panic button, or just a HOT?
They are not something you can activate fast, and get safe. So no, they are not a panic button.
It would be like saying Comp Nanoskills is a panic button, as it enables you to cast nanoes..
Comp Nanoskills is something you _always_ have buffed, just like Fixers use there HOTs, and MPs use there pets.. They are toolsets, not panicbuttons.

For some panic buttons:
NS2, AMS Cocoon, Calms. (CH gives rather a lot of agro, drains nano _fast_ compared to the others)

Let us take the professions and there defence:
# Adventurer: Heals lvl 40+: Bio Cocoon
# Agent
# Bureaucrat: Calm (SL versions that works)
# Doctor: Heals and CH
# Enforcer: mongo lvl 40+: Bio Cocoon
# Engineer: shields lvl 40+: Bio Cocoon
# Fixer
# Keeper: heals(passive though) lvl 40+: Bio Cocoon
# Martial artist: heals
# Meta-physicist: shields
# Nano-technician: layers NS + Calm (SL versions that works)
# Shade
# Soldier: AMS
# Trader: Heals + Calm (SL versions that works)

Those left are:
# Fixer
# Shade
# Agent

Fixers
have the same problem: no active defence..
But they have a really good passive one, to make up for that.
Not an interesting profession to play, but they at least survive OK.

Shades
the concept is a glass canon, kill fast, and the shade way is a very active one, with series of perks and standing behind the target. Even at that they get a bit of healing endgame and Sharl's Cybernetic Tattoo

Agents..
See, exactly the panic-buttons of the professions are not mimicable, apart from NS and CH.. so going other professions will not save us.
Those with healing, sure we get the lower QLs of those, but in the lower lvls we do not have mimic, so it does not match up.

some try saying the Agent bailout lise is a panic button, please read this:
+500 Run Speed for 5 sec? (if you have tried: yes the mob will kill you)
Bailout gives agents: First aid -2000 Treatment -2000 AAO set to 1, AAD set to 1, NR set to 1 for 40 sec! (the run buff that is less than GSF lasts for 5sec..)
Have you ever had rubber-banding? Mobs following you just magically spawn by your side? 5 sec of runspeed will not save you, especialy when you can not heal and your defences are removed..

Sure, I hate lvl locked nanoes, and the SL calms are just that
if it were to me, they would be free and easier to use. Especially for the poor Traders and NTs. Calms are a very important panic button that plays out well on RK.

My favourite idea for panic button is a "hide" button, where you loose all agro, would a recharge of the same length as Cocoon be a problem?
As we Agents are used to very little, a boost like that just every 10 min. would be preferable to the current situation.
It isn't even invulnerability while you can still fight, you loose the kill (but it is a stealthy way of escaping, fitting the profession)

and in the future situation with less nano, healing and evades..
it is _needed_

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

PS. Trader being harder than playing Agent?
Traders kick behind on RK, with skill you can go really really far, taking on insane encounters, but yes, they loose there shine endgame and in SL
Hence traders in my opinion needs a lift too PVM wise, they burn brightly in start game, but use up all there energy(nanoes) there and get nothing new (more or less).

[Klodovik]

I'm trying to find panic button on my lowbie MP, trader, doc, MA... Sadly, there aren't any worth using. They still go splat.

First you talk about lowbie content and then you jump on tl7 stuff like that shade coon sleeve. Seriously...

[MyGift]

Originally Posted by ArienSky
Please look at the data Klod.
And then give examples of what you call "two combined froob toolsets" that is so over-powered?

Shield ripper, reflects and CH at the same time.

P.S.
I never said you will be OP'd if you get more then two mimics available at the same time, I said anything more then that (you know, access to acrobat, or some similar silly stuff) would make you OP'd. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Im not putting words in ur mouth...U said have more then 2 mimics is OP