The Agent profession

[sultryvoltron]

Why?

Hint: Your MP probably uses one.

[Cyberleet]

Well I hope they stop nerfing our special attacks, attack-rating and damage.

Gonna make agent to a defensive class now?

Think a little.

lol, helluva cop-out.

[Klodovik]

Hint: Your MP probably uses one.

Good. I'm 99% positive that your agent doesn't.

Gonna make agent to a defensive class now?

I hope not.

[sultryvoltron]

Good. I'm 99% positive that your agent doesn't.

Good thing you didn't bet me money on that.

VE for most PvP, Viral Scope for PvM, Def Hud for soloing PvM.

Next you're going to tell me that I use Mimic Doc most often too right?

[Cyberleet]

Gonna add that it's retarded that MA, which got evade+heals, does more damage than agent.

Same with shade, which is evade-class.

I want the damage, not the defence, and working tools to cope with agg momentarily.
Damage penalty on mimic doc is one way to solve balance-issues.

[Klodovik]

Good thing you didn't bet me money on that.

Good. So, you are that 1%.

Next you're going to tell me that I use Mimic Doc most often too right?

You aren't?

Gonna add that it's retarded that MA, which got evade+heals, does more damage than agent.

Same with shade, which is evade-class.

Are you talking about PvM or PvP?

I want the damage, not the defence, and working tools to cope with agg momentarily.

I'm glad we agree on something.

But even now, announced changes look promising when it comes to building pure rifle AR setup and there are still nano and item changes documentations left to see.

If PvM is what bothers you, they said AS will become reusable on the same mob. That's pretty huge boost on damage.

Damage penalty on mimic doc is one way to solve balance-issues.

Very good, that would bring a good argument for nerfing RI.

[Cyberleet]

Are you talking about PvM or PvP?

I was thinking pvm, perks are limited to 30% anyway in pvp.

But also in pvp with AS changes and attack-skill changes our pvp-damage/offense is no longer bulletproof and versatile. In pvp, ma/shade can do nice damage vs low/medium evade, the diference here is that agent can do high damage vs any defence skill and got an array of perks that checks a variation of defence-skills, which corresponds with the assassin-theme.

Changing that is a huge damage-reduction from agents in pvp, and a charracter-design change.

+ they cripple damage on endgame perks, not exactly what many agents thought they had in store.

announced changes look promising when it comes to building pure rifle AR setup.

Someone needs to get a clue, we have around 300 more aimed shot skill in AR-builds...


It means we can no longer benefit from AR-equips (where we loose attack rating on important perks like CS, Tranq) the way we do now and are forced into some OOC defence-route or we will simply fail killing and die miserably.

And yeah, we all will start running around with the exact same gear, thats not what AO is about.

that would bring a good argument for nerfing RI.

It was actually me who suggested many of those nasty debuffs.

When trader was useless, this made more sense rp-wise instead of slapping AS on some weapon. Doh!

[Klodovik]

I was thinking pvm

Incoming reusable AS. There.

In pvp, ma/shade can do nice damage vs low/medium evade

So can you.

the diference here is that agent can do high damage vs any defence skill and got an array of perks that checks a variation of defence-skills, which corresponds with the assassin-theme.

Ability to recover 50% HP every 8 seconds doesn't correspond with the assassin-theme though.

As I said, we still have nanos and items changes incoming. I can bet that AR will be the right way to go, not defense, as people here requested, which bothers me the most. High AS skill will still have its use (you will be the only ones left to excel at it).

+ they cripple damage on endgame perks, not exactly what many agents thought they had in store.

You cried that you can't land them in time anyways. It was said that targets die too fast (talk about contradictions). So there, now they will execute faster, but they will have a bit lower damage. Duh.

Someone needs to get a clue, we have around 300 more aimed shot skill in AR-builds...

Yes, currently you do. So?

we loose attack rating on important perks like CS, Tranq

They got what they deserved.

[Cyberleet]

So there, now they will execute faster, but they will have a bit lower damage. Duh. :

Thats not an argument in the favor of minimizing the damage output.

There is a reason we want these perks repaired.

They got what they deserved.

Somebody is bitter!

[Klodovik]

Thats not an argument in the favor of minimizing the damage output.

There is a reason we want these perks repaired.

They got repaired. You can actually land them before target died from old age.

Somebody is bitter!

No, just realistic.

Anyways, long story short:

By all means, go ask for crapload of AR, I don't care, you probably deserve it. But don't ask for shade/doc/MA-like defenses, LOL.

[torakx]

its kind of funny. i agree with alot of both of your negative comments but mostly not with your positive ones.
this tells me now there are three different perspectives all seemingly supporting the agent profession cause.
it might also show that agent is played by lots of people with lots of variations of setups and playstyles.

now if we all can agree on that last sentence we should move on to the solution.
do we need more attack or more defence?
do we need some other direction?
As it looks on paper agents seem to have lost alot of the usefullness that was in there main special attack.i presume to compensate for this they have lowered the attack time on our perks.
but by doing i think they worried we would do too much damage too fast to be fair,so they dropped the damage.leaving us with a big need imo for AR to land these perks we are now more dependant on.
would it be sensible to ask for more damage when they have cut the damage already on our perks? by cutting the damage i will presume they intend to show they felt we had too much.

will agent need more defence even with more AR?
that is something very debateable.with alot more ar agent would mainly be an assassin style profession.but so far it seems will be more effective on people they can perk and alot less effective against profs that have high evades.how much ar is enoguh?and will we get it?
one problem remains. this is all thinking about agent in mimic doc for the majority of people.this is where we have the most "discussions" because of different VIEWPOINTS.
now apply all those but think about your agent in mimic enforcer , trader, fixer, adventurer, nano-technician etc.
if you were to be honest and fair to allow the agent profession to have more variety(dont say we dont need it! ) instead of going linear with everything we can utilize what we have and expand properly.

so in a pvp scenario
any of those mimics inc the Agent in any breed = A

this is the thing i think we must preserve and expand on to create variety.the more variety the more others need to adapt to the change.and the more change the more fun the game is in general.or else we all should roll adves no?

so what makes A do offence and how strong is it?(remember if it doesnt apply to at least 3 mimics equally it probably isnt a main feature in A)
i would have to say rifle,perk and proc damage mainly cover A in any of its forms.
so will the offence in A in its many forms be enough to balance the defence in A?

guess what im gonna waffle about defence!
i just mention what defences i think we might have in A.
well perkwise we dont have much defence at all.nanos because we cant count any specific mimic, i think ruse with conceal is a very shady maybe since there is no way to uttilize it as a defence after or during combat.since the offence is counted in combat i think defence should be too.
so nanos covered,perks covered,i dont think we have any other items that span across all mimics that would pass as any real defence for A.

i could talk about all the plus and minus about each part of A ,ie ch in mimic doc, tms in mimic sol etc but i think thats pretty clear from what most is used by nearly all agents in pvp.

if we want to stay as we are and be stuck in one mimic in the future i suggest the trend be kept up of adding new professions nanos to mimic as they become available all through those nano lines.
it is clear that there is no one nano or perk available at the moment that suits all types of agent styles of play and setups.
if the reduced damage perks and reduced effectiveness of aimed shot is not compensated for more than perk execution times we will be worse off than before.
yes a good offence is a good defense but only if you complete the objective,that being a pvp kill i think.and we dont know yet if this is going to be so with such low offence in A.

if it is not so then the obvious choice for me is to make A work in all its forms equally.
in each mimic there is an offence or defence lacking and/or present.

a perkline or perk or item that grants extra features depending on the mimic you are currently in with a reasonable lockout time seems to me to be one of the few ways to equally raise alot of mimics up to the correct level of offence/defence in pvp to allow agents to maintain a balance with there unique ability to play and adapt to their enviornment in so many styles.

it has been mentioned to me that the developers do not want the future pvp to be all instant kills. they said they want action in the game.for them that seems to be prolonged fights.this has been made clear by there choices with the profession balance so far.
if we are to fight for longer periods now to atain our objectives in pvp then we certainly do need something to add to defence on A as so far i see only really mimic doctor working and that is only a part of A and not very consistent.

so based on that long winded speel what do you guys think will solve this problem of A?

[Klodovik]

IMO, the best way would be to totally drop mimic and go with agent's own, totally rebuilt toolset (yay, even more cookiecutterz shizzle :\).

As long as mimic exists in its current state, all your assassin/high AR/high damage/"all around working defense" dreams will just remain dreams.

[ArienSky]

Great posts (again) torakx
I need to remember to put you up for professional voting in 3 months, if you have time?

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

IMO, the best way would be to totally drop mimic and go with agent's own

That would be like removing bots from Engineers, take the charms from crats and HOTs from fixers..

That idea is just silly..

[Klodovik]

That would be like removing bots from Engineers, take the charms from crats and HOTs from fixers...

If we take in count how bugged and annoying these can get, I bet they would all drop them for something new that is actually working.

[sultryvoltron]

You aren't?

No I actually use Trader most often because it fits more with how I want to play. I find it much more interesting and fun to play than Doc. Hell, if I wanted to spam heals in a defensive setup I would just log off, relog in and pick my Doc.

[Klodovik]

No I actually use Trader most often because it fits more with how I want to play.

I'm glad for you. I would probably do the same.

[Cyberleet]

IMO, the best way would be to totally drop mimic and go with agent's own, totally rebuilt toolset (yay, even more cookiecutterz shizzle :\).

The mimic-feature is a part of the assassin-theme, we're not soldiers.

But yeah, the agent-unique toolset needs an overhaul and they should stop reducing our perk-damage.

[Klodovik]

The mimic-feature is a part of the assassin-theme.

Not on such large scale as it is currently.

[torakx]

that all may regardless because it might come down to how much time and effort will the devs be allowed to put in before this needs to go out.
overhauling the agent prof might prove too much work for them.
also going through each mimic would be nearly the same. and god forbid they ask the agent community to help them with there goals.(by this i mean we never know what the end goal is so how can we help them find it?)

however i think adding an existing perkline is easily done but only a part fix should it be bio shielding.mimics are what we have been using for defence for years that isnt going to change.

what can change and easier than the above options is utilizing those mimics properly which has NEVER been done before in this game.
i agree mimic is outdated.but its how its updated that will decide where we are going to be in a few years.
if we get an evade perkline i think we are doomed to go in circles with our prof issues.
i can only see expanding mimic as a true way to balnce us out so we can adapt to our pvp enviornment better than a lame doc with a better rifle and perks.

if the game goes on the way it has i might petition for the agent profession to be called assault doctors instead

[Kinkstaah]

Klod, Agents do not want to be NT's.

Even NT's, currently are less squishy than Agents.
Would you like Agent damage to be something like Double NT current damage? Even if so, whats the point? It's recycling a class that already exists.

Such arguments are dumb. Agents need to be built in their own direction other than being:

a) A shade with less defence, but range, which equates to nothing
b) a NT, with a gun instead of nanos.

Stupid concepts, all of them. The unique fact of an agent isnt DPS. It's really never been DPS. It's been (supposedly) flexibility and camoflague. The ability to pull a trick at just the right time to take someone down, and tricks to escape opponents.

This, combined with Rifle damage, and DD/Stun perks, which.. when executed at the right time, can really mess up someone's day.

MP's have as much right to "defence" as an Agent does. Realistically less, but they have FAR more available to them. Why?

Can a MP go Mimic Enforcer and Tank? No? So why do MP's have better defence? Why do agents suddenly have no right to ask for any kind of defence? I think it's unreasonable. Classes with no defence at all just flat out arent fun to play.

Classes with large amount of flexibility and options are infact, very fun to play. Why would you want to go out of your way to make one class un-fun. Being uber aint that great if it's no fun to play the character.

You're trolling for the sake of trolling, or you really just don't know much about how Agents really are, Klod - And you certainly arent contributing to the discussion at all, and realistically you can't deny that.

Looking forward to you picking through this post, focusing on only irrelevent details and missing the main point here. Though I'd much rather you engage in intelligent conversation.