Question regarding weapon speeds

[_______________Xeros]

I have always thought that a gun's speed is the time between shots, and the recharge is the time to reload...is this true?

The reason I question it, is my mauser (1s/3s) takes longer than 1 second to shoot, and my new smg (1.5s/1.8s), seems to shoot faster, lots faster actually. Now I only barely had time to test it on some very grey leets and blubags, so it could be that I am just hitting more (I have misses turned off), but even the image of firing the bullet seemed faster, so what the heck to the numbers mean? It can't be that a my 1/3 gun just takes 4 seconds to shoot, or why wouldn't they just say it has a speed of 4s and be done with it?

Also, exactly what effect does ranged initiative have?

[Sunkisst]

Time between shots is attack time + recharge time.

Attack time is the time it takes your little attack bar to go UP (right). Recharge time is the time it takes it to go back DOWN (left).

There are many reasons there isn't just one speed value:
1) You can do other things while nanos and weapons are recharging. You can't do crap while they are on the attack portion cycle.
2) Recharge time affects the recycle time on specials. So a 3s/1s gun bursts a lot more often than a 1s/3s gun.
3) Attack time affects how quickly you get off that first shot, so a 1s/3s gun first first than a 3s/1s gun (and does more damage per second initially, eventually approaching the dps of a 3s/1s gun as you fire more shots).
4) Attack and recharge time are affected differently by Ranged Initiative.

There are approximately 8 million bozillion posts on these forums about the affect of ranged initiative on shot speed. Run a search and read a few posts.

If you want the lite version, 100% aggro reduces both attack and recharge by .25s. Every 600 points of actual ranged initiative lowers attack speed by 1s. Every 300 points of BOUGHT ranged init (not buffed, implanted, or even base due to stats) lowers recharge speed by 1s (this is being looked at for a fix). Minimum weapon speed is 1s/1s and nothing will take it below that.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Bootes
]There are many reasons there isn't just one speed value:
1) You can do other things while nanos and weapons are recharging. You can't do crap while they are on the attack portion cycle.
2) Recharge time affects the recycle time on specials. So a 3s/1s gun bursts a lot more often than a 1s/3s gun.
3) Attack time affects how quickly you get off that first shot, so a 1s/3s gun first first than a 3s/1s gun (and does more damage per second initially, eventually approaching the dps of a 3s/1s gun as you fire more shots).
4) Attack and recharge time are affected differently by Ranged Initiative.

Just anote on #2, Flingshot and Fast Attack should be based on the attack speed of the weapon. The others are based on Recharge.

[_______________Xeros]

Thank you Bootes, that clears up a lot of things. I switched to the 1.5/1.8 gun recently, ncie to know that it is overall faster, and I will get much faster bursts (plus the new gun does fire damage). The lack of time I can do other things (during recharge) bothers me not at all, as the only thing I generally do in that time is slap a first aid pack on me. Fixers have precious few things to do while in the fight other than pound the target to dust.

So 300 points knocks 1s off time, that works for fractions as well? My init is around 180, so I am looking forward to triming 0.6 seconds off my recharge (well a little less, some of that is base). I will look up some of those other posts as well, so I should be able to find my own answers there.

You say minimum is 1s/1s, but some guns start faster than that, they are the exception?

Ok, off to do a search, thanks again.

[________________Miir]

ncie to know that it is overall faster, and I will get much faster bursts (plus the new gun does fire damage).


ewww...Only SMG I know of that does Fire damage are Michael Patriots.

Other than at very very low level, Patriots are terrible.
You should go find a Kerans Grinner instead..


Here's the stats for a QL100(ish) of each.


OT Kerans Automatic Grinner
1.50/1.45
1-158 (157)
Poison Damage.
120 Clip

SMG - 469
Burst - 252

+4 Sense




Superior Michael Patriot Ffi 29A
1.50/1.30
20-95 (83)
Fire Damage
60 clip

SMG - 515
Burst - 387



Fixers have precious few things to do while in the fight other than pound the target to dust.

You should try rooting melee mobs and snaring ranged mobs then 'kiting' them.
With a little bit of practice, you will take very little damage at all. Even in missions you can find rooms big enough to kite.

[____________DocSmock]

1) You can do other things while nanos and weapons are recharging. You can't do crap while they are on the attack portion cycle.

How concrete is that? I have noticed if I start a nano before the recharge bar gets down to halfway I stand a good chance of losing the shot.

BTW, anyone know why there are 2 weapon fire aminations per actual shot? Or is my computer hallucinating?

[nipsnaps]

Combat animations = flair. Don't trust them. Actually, don't trust even your own hit messages. What you CAN trust are damage shield messages, those are always shown right away even if the client doesn't fit the animation right then and there.

That's what you learn from playing side-by-side with 2 comps with someone. Here's the short skinny version of combat animations:

YOUR client shows animation cycle for your weapon if the client thinks you are shooting. When a hit/miss message comes from the server to you, the client says "okay, let me fit that animation in here", and proceeds to chuck in a fire/swing animation and gives you the damage message. Sometimes *gasp* the clients own approximation of your attack cycle is even correct, and you get the damage messages right away because the client sees you are "in sync" with the animations and server combat. Of course, if your animation cycle is occupied, you don't get the animation NOR the message. But don't worry the hit has been made on the server, where it counts, so IGNORE this blatant "lost shot" effect. Fighting mobs with damage shields can give you this info even if playing alone. Note how sometimes you get damage from dam shield but "don't" hit yourself yet? That's because you HAVE hit already, but your client has decided to withold the evidence from YOU until it can fit the animation in.

Yeah it IS crummy. Don't know if I'm willing to sacrifice knowing exactly when I'm doing damage and whether or not I'm firing/swinging just for the sake of having the damage messages fit into my combat animation sequence!

Btw, same goes also for nuking. One type of blackholing is sort of same: your client decides you can't nuke after all, and decides not to run the nuke animation. Meanwhile on the server, you just nuked the mob. Ahh, the analyzes you can do with 2 comps and 2 players.

The worst blackholing though is the other way around: your CLIENT thinks you can nuke/calm/whatever the mob, but on the server it is actually out of line of sight. THEN it screw up big time, you nukenukenuke/calmcalmcalm but they all blackhole. Sucks big time, and happens because in "reality" on the server, you don't have a line of sight, but your client still allows you to proceed to use the NFs.

[locomdenom]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow


Just anote on #2, Flingshot and Fast Attack should be based on the attack speed of the weapon. The others are based on Recharge.

Actually, burst is weird.

Burst is NOT always based on recharge. Most, if not all, guns have a hardcoded BurstRecharge value (you can see it in Jayde's d-base.) FA recharge also appears to be hardcoded in there.

For example:

Mausser Particle Streamer: 3s recharge, burstrec 2448

Gamma Ejector: 3s recharge, no hardcoded value (might be a type, as there is a "Burst" number that doesn't appear in other entries, value is 1548)

Mausser Chemical Streamer: 1s recharge, burstrec 2000

Novaflow: 2.5s recharge, burstrec 2578

Division 9: 1.4s recharge, burstrec 1600

Custom Heavy Suppressor: 2.5s recharge, burstrec 1500

OT MPS-07 (shotty w/ burst): 2.41s, burstrec 2224

Michael Patriot: 1.3s recharge, burstrec 2504

Sol Chironis: 1.5s recharge, burstrec 2768


Don't know what the numbers mean, but it would seem that there's another factor at work here besides just recharge.