Viable AMS de-nerf.

[haavarst]

Lol ok... i can tell you've never played a keeper Lately, read the keeper forums and suggestions it's by far one of the worse pvp profs you can play right now, what makes it worse is we were by far one of the better profs of pvp pre LE and now the worse, so were was the balancing in that, and the fact that you have a soldier don't that speak for itself how easy a keeper is to kill? not having a go but i think you need to do some research before making such rash comments.

hmm rash comment? think you missed something...
he said: "Using a keeper as an example for PvP balance makes almost anyone look OPed" and thats a good confirmation of how bad things are.

[Hacre]

Lol ok... i can tell you've never played a keeper Lately, read the keeper forums and suggestions it's by far one of the worse pvp profs you can play right now, what makes it worse is we were by far one of the better profs of pvp pre LE and now the worse, so were was the balancing in that, and the fact that you have a soldier don't that speak for itself how easy a keeper is to kill? not having a go but i think you need to do some research before making such rash comments.

He was agreeing with you dude...

[Maxisolja]

My fixer highly outperforms my soldier in pvp, 215>219 O.o

Mostly probably because of playstyle but still...

[Armus]

AMS is a good defense, when there are nt's, traders or engis around (so in reality it almost never works).

As for easily killing ppl I don't know if I can agree. If there is a big crowd with loads of ppl pewpewing each other then soldiers are certainly good at getting points. So in meat grinder pvp style soldiers are good.

But if you get left alone with someone I dare say that pretty much any prof can either outlast and own the soldier or just root and leave him if needed, provided both toons are similarly buffed.

Or just outrun since soldiers have the lowest rs ig.

[Gatester]

AMS/TMS is a crappy defense because you cannot force anyone to fight you as a soldier while it is running, and you have a hell of a time escaping as a soldier when it goes down. Asside from that stupid Dshark snare, as long as I can move I can get away from or kill a soldier if I can survive his damage for a while.

Everyone runs away, and yes I hate it when that soldier gets away during AMS downtime, but that is the current state of AO. Maybe in the future soldiers will have a more manageable defense rather than Reflects on/Reflects off.

[heilt-do]

As an Agent, I find this funny coming from a Soldier.

Ah Yes completely true, but still agent has choices, and i know so far doc is the only "practical" pvp mimic, but you can always root/outrun a soldier, or still use top heal to keep you alive while you are on the run.

When it comes to soldiers youre 100% defenseless, youre only a mob with 20-25k hp and high dmg output. (wich wont last long because of drains). And probably rooted.

[Notcrattey]

2) Sneak.

Like that isn't complete torture on a shade.

[wolfmyth]

Curious, how many would change TMS/AMS to before LE (no NT nukes, Trader borrows....) if it had a 30s root on it or a decent snare?

[randomalpha]

i have better idea , give soldier 2k RS during ams , after ams remove them

[Etyris]

AMS is a good defense, when there are nt's, traders or engis around (so in reality it almost never works).

I see this argument a lot and it doesn't hold water. If AMS is not a good defense, why are there so many PvP solds? Why are sols so resistant to nerfing AMS which isn't very good anyway and instead get a more varied toolset?

[Ixiaan]

All too common, typical soldier will AMS on the sight of another person. If by that chance the person lasts longer than AMS the soldier will simply run like hell and return after it's back up.

You do realize you can also run like hell when the solider AMSes? Engie/trader/NT can already completely bypass soldiers defense which is already far to many classes in my opinion.

[Manicmouse]

I see this argument a lot and it doesn't hold water. If AMS is not a good defense, why are there so many PvP solds? Why are sols so resistant to nerfing AMS which isn't very good anyway and instead get a more varied toolset?

You assume that people use soldiers because AMS is good, flawed logic. Soldier has always been a popular profession compared to many other professions. People often choose to play soldier for things such as playstyle.

Soldiers are resistant to nerfing AMS because IT IS ALL WE HAVE (for defence). FC hasn't announced any defence improvements on the horizon so we need to defend what we have.

[Etyris]

You assume that people use soldiers because AMS is good, flawed logic. Soldier has always been a popular profession compared to many other professions. People often choose to play soldier for things such as playstyle.

Soldiers are resistant to nerfing AMS because IT IS ALL WE HAVE (for defence). FC hasn't announced any defence improvements on the horizon so we need to defend what we have.

No. That is not how things happened and you know it. There were a lot of newly rolled soldier after the LE (DShark) came out, because the combination of the AMS plus strong new weaps was too powerful. Very strong defense + very strong offense. Hence why we now have BR and Piercing nukes, which are in effect AMS nerfs.

Do you want more stealth nerfs to AMS, or do you want a new toolset? You better ask for the new toolset because AMS is gonna keep getting nerfed like this whether you like it or not.

Please. Reread. What. I. Said.

I am asking for AMS to be nerfed and an alternate defensive toolset be created, not an all on or all off toolset which currently scales perfectly too all attacks except those which circumvent them.

[Manicmouse]

No. That is not how things happened and you know it. There were a lot of newly rolled soldier after the LE (DShark) came out, because the combination of the AMS plus strong new weaps was too powerful. Very strong defense + very strong offense. Hence why we now have BR and Piercing nukes, which are in effect AMS nerfs.

Do you want more stealth nerfs to AMS, or do you want a new toolset? You better ask for the new toolset because AMS is gonna keep getting nerfed like this whether you like it or not.

Please. Reread. What. I. Said.

I am asking for AMS to be nerfed and an alternate defensive toolset be created, not an all on or all off toolset which currently scales perfectly too all attacks except those which circumvent them.

So you're not even talking about the current state of endgame soldiers. You're talking about an influx of new soldiers after LE which is irrelevant as now a lot more stuff has been released which has changed the game a lot. True dshark 210 soldiers are OP but we are talking about being competitive at endgame. Slap a FA recharge value on the dshark and problem is solved.

AMS is going to get nerfed? I don't live in these forums so please give me a quote from someone working for FC.

I read what you said. You wanted to know why soldiers were resistant to nerfing AMS, well I answered your question directly.

I stand by my comment about your logic being flawed, AMS is not the sole reason for people playing soldier, stop oversimplifying to try and prove a point.

[Klodovik]

I once did 20k PvP damage on soldier, in 12 seconds.

[Etyris]

So you're not even talking about the current state of endgame soldiers. You're talking about an influx of new soldiers after LE which is irrelevant as now a lot more stuff has been released which has changed the game a lot. True dshark 210 soldiers are OP but we are talking about being competitive at endgame. Slap a FA recharge value on the dshark and problem is solved.

AMS is going to get nerfed? I don't live in these forums so please give me a quote from someone working for FC.

I read what you said. You wanted to know why soldiers were resistant to nerfing AMS, well I answered your question directly.

I stand by my comment about your logic being flawed, AMS is not the sole reason for people playing soldier, stop oversimplifying to try and prove a point.

I never said that AMS is the sole reason people play sol. If you've read my other posts I've said that AMS is one of the reasons that there are so many sols. AMS + too strong offense = unbalance and that is very much a problem at end game and to a lesser extent all TLs which is why BR and piercing nukes were created.

You say people play soldier because it fits their playstyle. Right. Just like traders and NTs seem to fit a lot of player's playstyles now. You said "IT IS ALL WE HAVE" and while that's not true, a gross oversimplification on your part I might add, it brings up the larger point of the soldier not having a fully realized defensive toolset. AMS should be toned down and a situational toolset should be created for soldiers. This is what I've been lobbying for all along, so hopefully this time next year we won't get people like you screaming "IT IS ALL WE HAVE" and feeling like what I'm suggesting is only a bad thing.

Again, no perfectly scaling defenses to all attacks minus circumvention, all on or all off defenses please. It's just not a good mechanic.

I've been through this and I'm done arguing this issue.

[Etyris]

I once did 20k PvP damage on soldier, in 12 seconds.

That's over 9000.

[lostlife]

why add a snare to tms when agents fixers crats nts (if they dont double/triple) or trader (if not stealing our reflects) and any one with a root graft can?

there are profs out there that IGNORE out defence, not plow threw it (coon), not destroy you before its effective (hots), or make less effective (evades), IGNORE.

and during ams down time what is our defense? sneak? sit down and use HD? run from people that are faster then you?

lets compare this to keeper defense: coon, moderate evades, bio rej, perk heals from blessing, (with a 20 sec 32% reflect built in...), auras (heal, add to aad, make you resistant to snares/roots), and soon to be parry and riptose?

[Gatester]

why add a snare to tms when agents fixers crats nts (if they dont double/triple) or trader (if not stealing our reflects) and any one with a root graft can?

there are profs out there that IGNORE out defence, not plow threw it (coon), not destroy you before its effective (hots), or make less effective (evades), IGNORE.

and during ams down time what is our defense? sneak? sit down and use HD? run from people that are faster then you?

lets compare this to keeper defense: coon, moderate evades, bio rej, perk heals from blessing, (with a 20 sec 32% reflect built in...), auras (heal, add to aad, make you resistant to snares/roots), and soon to be parry and riptose?

Comments like this only spur more anti-soldier threads, be careful with your words.

NTs are the only profession that ignore reflects, engies reduce some not all, and traders can only BR someone with AMS running, which means your defense is very effective if you are level headed and observant.

AMS downtime, your defense is not that great but that is unfortunately the trade-off for AMS/TMS. I would support an alternate means or form of your defense, but you cannot complain too much with the strongest offense in game, and the strongest defense against all but 3 profs for 80 seconds.

Finally, never compare your profession to Keepers in pvp.

[lostlife]

my apologies gate, i guess ignore was the wrong word for the situation, as for strongest offence, i agree with that too, depending on howyou define offence, if its aao to hit evaders, thats true, if its alpha-ability though, atrox shades are pretty nuts. are you suprised that im acknowledging where im wrong and not instantly attacking you yet? Well, im not going to, but saying strongest defense agains all but 3 profs is pushing it, what about advies with there defensive toolset including, but not limited to coon, heals, bio rej, and acro. doc heals, if considered as a defense is on par with ams/tms while ams/tms is running (as it should be), enfos have mongo/bio rej, have slightly above average evades, great nr, coon, rs (running away with your tail between your legs is some times the only way to victory), humongous hp, so over all i rate the enfos defense at only slightly below solds.

ran out of time and cant continue

also, im sorry for comparing solds to keepers i forgot their current state of pvp :/