Friday with Means - November 20th, 2009 - Nanomage says "Wut?"

[zartosht]

I said it before and I say it again here: as a member of this community I find it quite disturbing when the man in charge, Means, openly bullies another community member when he should be instead giving an impeccable posting behavior example himself.

This only stigmatizes the user put on the spotlight, sending a message to other users that he is now fair game. And as expected many did jump on the bandwagon and had their shot at IHaveHugeNick. The sad part is that it also came from an ARK...

Same in IRL, when a government stigmatizes a minority/etnic /religious group, the next thing you have is public violence against that group and discriminations. Higher authorities should protect, not attack.

Irony is that besides what some could view as an "attitude", IHHN is an excellent poster, has deep and comprehensive knowledge not only about the professions he plays but also about AO. His ideas are generally good and unlike the vast majority of the posters on these forums he has a good logic and a brain.

[Hacre]

I said it before and I say it again here: as a member of this community I find it quite disturbing when the man in charge, Means, openly bullies another community member when he should be instead giving an impeccable posting behavior example himself.

This only stigmatizes the user put on the spotlight, sending a message to other users that he is now fair game. And as expected many did jump on the bandwagon and had their shot at IHaveHugeNick. The sad part is that it also came from an ARK...

Same in IRL, when a government stigmatizes a minority/etnic /religious group, the next thing you have is public violence against that group and discriminations. Higher authorities should protect, not attack.

Irony is that besides what some could view as an "attitude", IHHN is an excellent poster, has deep and comprehensive knowledge not only about the professions he plays but also about AO. His ideas are generally good and unlike the vast majority of the posters on these forums he has a good logic and a brain.

Pretty sure it was a forum mod, not Means, that had the pop at IHHN.

Also lol @ you comparing public posts chastising a forum member to real life discrimination/violence/genocide.

[majere]

Pretty sure it was a forum mod, not Means, that had the pop at IHHN.

Also lol @ you comparing public posts chastising a forum member to real life discrimination/violence/genocide.

This.... How one can compare two obviously different things is beyond me. The post made me need to post this: http://wsilva.files.wordpress.com/20...lm_implied.jpg

[Chrys]

Why is this adressed to me? You must have confused me with someone else, Venachar - my forum record is actually almost perfect - i don't have any active infractions, i have like 4 infractions that have expired years ago. The only infraction i had that was directed at my supposed "attiude" is from February 2008. Most of them are also from times when you weren't even in moderation team, so i don't really get the you-me thing either.

I consider myself an exemplary forum citizen, because there's no reason not to - thousands of posts i made on this board, and only 4 infrations ? Its the record of a saint. I will gladly change my attiude , but you have hold my hand and show me what exactly i'm doing wrong, first.

Yours Truly
Nick

Relax, I think he was just trying to impress the boss, mod-in-shining-armour and all that.

As for this on-demand breed change... yuck. It appears you have let your contingency plan out and you shouldn't have. The message it says is "if we screw up balancing and don't actually balance stuff (because we won't tbh), we'll let you pick a cookiecutter option because we can't afford to let the large number of people who will be unhappy with our changes quit."

Means, take a look at what happened to Warhammer Online (I was once a fanboi of this game). They tried to change too many things all at once. They basically turned Bright Wizards into kill-many-things-all-at-once because of unforeseen small changes in the game mechanics. Would the solution have been to allow everyone to change to BWs? Obviously not. And between what they didn't fix continuing to be a bone of contention, while blandly promising Soon(tm) on everything else under the sun, a game of 400,000 subs first led to massive side imbalances (everyone playing their BW and Warrior Priest, the other imba prof) then simply withered and died. I was actually part of that exodus, and you could see it visibly happen in game, on forums, everywhere you looked (with of course the fanboys always denying it was happening and the devs there continuing to make bland promises): Their "balancing" didn't work, they refused to listen to players and continued to have an attitude that they knew better than the players - they basically killed their game by trying too much too quickly while unable to understand the actual PVP dynamics.

AO is different. It's old and fairly stable; which should tell you that only small changes are necessary. You've got a small but loyal fanbase that worships you. Don't make the same mistakes and ruin it because there will be no return for AO.

Sincerely,

An ex-player who isn't coming back.

Edit: woot page 13 \o/

[Hacre]

! Hi Chrys! LTNS!

Sincerely,

An ex-player who isn't coming back.

Bye Chrys

[Tanana]

I'm not overly keen to see breed changes common place in the game, but I guess it's part of a future vision that the development team have to produce more freedom for the player base, and that can only be a good thing imo.

I have the same opinion as some of the guys posting that a profession should not depend on breed to function well. When it is the case that breed is such an important factor then balance needs to be applied to that profession in other areas before people should resort to a full breed change.


Breed perks should be made more generic imo, with a single buff that gets stronger with more points invested. The buff should give HP, Nano, evades and a heal to all breeds.

Trox would get slightly more of a hp boost, NM more Nano, Opi more evades and Solitus an average boost in all. It would still be the case that certain breeds perform better than others for say the evade part of the buff but it makes sense that Opifex get more evades, as does increased nano for NM ect.

[Mereditche]

AO is different. It's old and fairly stable; which should tell you that only small changes are necessary. You've got a small but loyal fanbase that worships you. Don't make the same mistakes and ruin it because there will be no return for AO.

^^ This! Whatever you change, those who think the game is unbalanced now will still be asking for <3 after the changes. Perfect balance isn't possible and the more I watch this go on, the more I think you're going in the opposite direction. I can't understand how anayone can foresee the impact on game balance when you make huge changes.

Follow map below:

[X] -------- (small step) ------> [Y] -------------------------------------- [Balance]

X: You're here.
Y: Where you're going

You're doing:

[X] -------------- [Balance] ------------ (huge step) ---------------------------> [Y]

u c?

[DePreach]

Pretty sure it was a forum mod, not Means, that had the pop at IHHN.

I think he was referring to ...

I don't want all the breeds to be exactly equal in all situations...no. I dislike pointless choices as much as I dislike pointless posts...like yours.

You don't have to sign your posts "party pooper"...after this amount of time I'm sure the entire forum is aware of who and what you are.

Cheers,

Your reality check.

And I agree, no matter how upset / angry / snarky our customers get it is part of my job to suck it up or defuse the situation and attempt to leave the customer feeling happy and satisfied that their concerns are noticed and being addressed.

I certainly don't tell them their call is pointless and imply it is common knowledge they are an awkward customer, because that is unprofessional and will only lead to more problems down the line.

Saying that, I am not quite as much in the public eye as Means is and I don't have a few hundred people criticising every step I make.

IHHNs posts seemed to me to be pretty tame compared to some of the posts I have read the past few weeks, I think he is also maybe a victim of his own infamy. On balance though, both public castigations (Means and Vena?) should not have been made so public.

[lazarus]

I'm not overly keen to see breed changes common place in the game, but I guess it's part of a future vision that the development team have to produce more freedom for the player base, and that can only be a good thing imo.

I have the same opinion as some of the guys posting that a profession should not depend on breed to function well. When it is the case that breed is such an important factor then balance needs to be applied to that profession in other areas before people should resort to a full breed change.


Breed perks should be made more generic imo, with a single buff that gets stronger with more points invested. The buff should give HP, Nano, evades and a heal to all breeds.

Trox would get slightly more of a hp boost, NM more Nano, Opi more evades and Solitus an average boost in all. It would still be the case that certain breeds perform better than others for say the evade part of the buff but it makes sense that Opifex get more evades, as does increased nano for NM ect.

at least we are not only IHHN and I that think this way

[Nevo-RK3]

DO NOT give us the possibilty to change breed! You are really ruining the game slowly but steady... It all gets easy and you are ruining the things that make AO so special and unique! If people cry loud enough here, they always get what they want... it is terrible!!! Whats next? Removing Implants and giving all items just level requirements, so you do not need to hassle with twinking anymore?

Start talking to the people that are still happy with the way the game is, the people that play for years and years, the people who pay since years, and the people that actually enjoy the game as it is!!!

And for gods sake, go work on grafic up and right after that, go work on Server transfer!! Whats the sense of reballancing, if there are no fights, no pvp, nothing going on anymore??? Reballance once you fixed the problems of playernumbers and Empty servers....!!!!

[Klod9002]

Documentation pertaining to nanos, items and research changes. When?

[Berserkmc]

Problem in that breed change - actual retreating from positions by developers. "We cannot make balance, but we announce changes and shall finish them, so, that you can be necessary to change yours breed". It's end up by, that there will be such combinations of breed and profession which will obviously OP in comparison with the others, that will lead to to creation "cookie cutter" setups and army of clones. When to be atrox means perking becomes the standard then any another breed choice for perk profession will be perceived as silly and impractical(and not just original), and it will be impractical on the fact. The same thing with NM NT. If the person loves mimaxing, he will use breed and prof combination which gives him the greatest result. And when such combinations will be established by developers as genoms, it exhausts all players in "cookie cutter" setups. Exactly therefore there should not be neither such mad genoms, nor stupid breed changes because it is not worth time coding. Look @ WoW - tested for more, than 11 million players (including. 5 mil Chinese), has shown, that racial features it that determines a choice of many more-less skilled players for PvP and PvM, therefore Blizz refuse that sharp racial distinctions, will process it in new addon, that it was not necessary in balance of classes include also balance of races for the same classes.

P.S. Sorry for bad grammatics and wrong style in some cases.

[heilt-do]

obsolete ideas are obosoleteeeee...

News just in! "It all gets easy and you are ruining the things that make AO so special and unique!"

AO is officially a game for the masochist! How is a simple breed change to revive old mistakes, and adapt for new changes making it easy !! ?? you dont like YOU GO reroll 220/30/70! dont force us into the madness.

Start talking to the people that are still happy with the way the game is, the people that play for years and years, the people who pay since years, and the people that actually enjoy the game as it is!!!

And for gods sake, go work on grafic up and right after that, go work on Server transfer!! Whats the sense of reballancing, if there are no fights, no pvp, nothing going on anymore??? Reballance once you fixed the problems of playernumbers and Empty servers....!!!!

OOHHH now you see why we need to make some new changes ??, That "people who pay for years and years" are no longer paying for the game! woohooo, youre shooting yourself on the foot mate. AO is old is either ADAPT or be EXTINCT!

Hey only listen to those who want to stay the same! the rest doesnt care they dont have 12hrs per day to play AO on hardcore mode! Shutdown their voices and forum access!

[IHaveHugeNick]

Relax guys, not worth getting worked up about it, the priority is to get them to back off this breed change idea , i couldn't care less about what happened here earlier, though i admit causing Game Director and chief of moderation participate in open forum flame by making quite innocent one-liner comment, will look pretty good in my troll CV.

And read the first post, its a good thing the community is involved, passionate and commited , unless of course we , god forbid, happen to disagree with them , then its a whole different story.

Now , on the serious note:

What exactly is the problem with breeds in this game? You could, and still can, make or break the profession by making wrong breed choice, which most of us have done while not even knowing what ToTW is. Biggest source of this issue are alien breed perks.

The fix to this is to eliminate the source by adjusting the alien breed perks.

Making breed change available because of unbalanced breed perks isn't a fix, its a bandaid - you are sending the clear message something propably gets screwed up during balancing,, so players will get a magic button to fix themselves what you could not.

Furthermore, the logic behind that idea is so deeply flawed i don't even know if you believe it yourself. So after changes to genome perks, 1% difference in our character performance is so significant it deserves compensation with breed change, while making huge revamps of entire professions - and lets say it loud, not everyone is going to be happy after this is all over - doesn't deserve any compensation? Honestly, that doesn't even remotely start making sense, and judging by this thread, i'm far from the only one with that opinion.

What you should be doing instead , also known as How To Fix Breeds In One Weekend by IHaveHugeNick:

- AI Genome perkline should be cleared from all perk actions and remain solely ability buffing lines.

- you've done very good job adjusting genome perks so far, and its obvious they were mostly designed around profession groups. f.e. nanomage lines were clearly targeted mostly at casters. Simply move those perks into professions perklines instead, for professions you'll find appropriate.

- pursue the already existing breed differencies like Shadowbreeds and Nano Delta, Heal Delta mechanics. No one wants all breeds to be the same, and the differencies are already there, they've just become obsolete over the years.

Suddenly, no one has to reroll because of wrong breed choice anymore, your best coder can work on something that will actually make a difference , and The Great PvP Balancing won't become obsolete after a month when everyone switches to optimal breed , while you have based every planned change on how things are today.

There are plenty of other good ideas how to deal with balancing breeds around these forums, most of them better then one from the OP.

Cheers

[Autohead]

Honestly, I'm ecstatic about breed change possibility...and it has nothing to do with PvP since I hate AO's PvP anyways, it's just purely aesthetic in my mind. I originally rolled Autohead as a trox, but changed my mind and decided to go soli for the "all-roundedness"...well once I got past a certain level threshold I started wishing I would have stayed trox just because I think they look better/cooler ...but being whatever higher level I was at the time I REALLY didn't want to reroll just because I didn't like how my character looked, so I lived with it...until now.

So, if breed change ever does make it to live as now "promised" by Means, I'll be going from soli to trox, but don't worry, I won't have MR perked since I'll rarely be PvP'ing anyway.

See, it's not all about cookie cutter PvP winmode for everyone.

[Nevo-RK3]

You did not get what i was trying to say!

From my point of view, almost all changes made in the last months were due to people whining and whining and trolling here in the forums, and many changes were NOT necessary!
It would have been much much more important to concentrate on a server merge or something to keep the people that played AO for a long time happy, and not to make those new players happy, that missed some top gear or whatever and therefore whined all over the forum how unfair and how bad pvp was ... and so forth... all that led to the hole ballancing issue...

Most people left RK3 not because of the ballance issue, but because funcom wouldnt come up with solutions for empty servers.

You will see, once all changes are implemented, there will be even less of the old fan/playerbase left. And that is BECAUSE of the changes, not because they did not change!!

[Camista]

FWIW, my opinion is that it should be a one-off. After the balancing, if you feel your character has been broken by the changes, you get a one-time breed change. I don't feel like it should be available at any time to anyone with the money or creds to do so. Breed choice should mean something.

I don't see how it's any different from the full IPR you usually offer when there are huge changes.

[Grim-One]

I was slightly against the one time breed change when I first heard it, but I guess it would only be fair to allow it once the breed perks get introduced. The whole sex change aspect of it I don't care about either way.

Having the option to continuously change your breed seems like to big of a step though.

[doubbleagent]

Removed

[SoldiTwo]

Removed