Constant Barrage is the most OP nano ingame.

[Sterva]

If it survives all of the rebalancing, that will be criminal.

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=259354

[Hacre]

If GTH and stupid 110% blind resist goes away in the rebalancing, I'll drop CB.

If the proposed NM Alpha Genome perks get some nerfing/adjusting and made a Group line for NTs/MPs/Crats/Traders, I'll give up doubles and triples too.

Then we can hop on a "AMS wtf?" band wagon.

Or make CB only affect people if they have perks in notum repulsor. There's no general line for an extra 300-1200 to evades.

That said, the OP and everyone about to hop on this bandwagon, needs to understand the difference between the way NT combat works and the way -everyone- else's combat works. There's no regular hits, no specials, currently no massive queue stacked perk alpha, nothing. On top of that if an NT needs to be defensive, they're not doing damage to you. If they're doing damage to you, they're unable to engage their defenses. If they've just engaged defenses, or done damage to you, there's no debuffing, rooting, etc.

Also what about professions like Enforcers, that can reach up to 4k NR? Should that be free? Or should there be a profession that can take them down a peg or two in this game of mass/group PvP? NR focused Enforcers are already countering CB quite often. Scale it based on target NR? Make it a % instead of 1k per cast? Make it only 1k total instead of stacking up to 3k? Only allow it to stack up to 3k against Enforcers?

You can't just demand a nerf to a tool that currently makes an NT toolset work, compared to being largely and often useless against a good few professions.

Consider this, would you be ready and willing to cast a nano against say an Enforcer, that would lock out all your offensive and defensive abilities even if it failed for anywhere between 4 to 7.5 seconds depending on what you tried to cast?

[lazarus]

yeah this is even more OP than mongo rage, as this **** even do damage while debuffing the hell out of anyone.

and this make it even more OP with the LE Nukes.

NR is the most unrelieved defense in game. and that **** make it way to easy to land

FC should look at every profession and compare the different "spikes" in the ballance ladder, and even everything out.

The ballance effort should be to make everyone equal as possible.

So "Spikes" should not happend. no one should have a I win button against another profession.

[erozc]

I believe that the OP and the people afterwards are referring to the whole CB line. Overwhelming storm is OP too... Distracting shower probably isn't though.

Just so that we won't get threads about the others as well should anything happen to CB.

[supernaute]

If it survives all of the rebalancing, that will be criminal.

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=259354

Absolutely true

[tweeeek]

it just needs a capped at melee range, cast range.

[Sterva]

it just needs a capped at melee range, cast range.

No, it needs to be removed or fundamentally changed.

No profession, regardless of how their combat system works, should be able to entirely disable any other profession's only defense mechanism versus their offense.

Don't bring GTH or other broken nanos into this thread--other things being stupidly OP isn't an excuse to let this line of nanos go on untouched.

[Kinkstaah]

No profession, regardless of how their combat system works, should be able to entirely disable any other profession's only defense mechanism versus their offense.

Why? They don't do it instantly, and more often than not they dont even really need CB to land their offence on people.

As for this, didn't YOU request an "Evades CB" that removes AAD? Thus directly asking for a way to entirely disable any other profession's defence vs Crat damage via pets, regular shots, etc?

I am fully aware of the fact AAD =/NR, but removing 1k AAD would put everyone into reg hittable/pet hittable/perkable range for a crat and it's damn well the same thing that you are claiming is so abhorrent to balance.

[Sterva]

Why? They don't do it instantly, and more often than not they dont even really need CB to land their offence on people.

As for this, didn't YOU request an "Evades CB" that removes AAD? Thus directly asking for a way to entirely disable any other profession's defence vs Crat damage via pets, regular shots, etc?

I am fully aware of the fact AAD =/NR, but removing 1k AAD would put everyone into reg hittable/pet hittable/perkable range for a crat and it's damn well the same thing that you are claiming is so abhorrent to balance.

Apparently satire is beyond you. No surprises there, really!

CB is OP, remove it.

[Boltgun]

No, it needs to be removed or fundamentally changed.

No profession, regardless of how their combat system works, should be able to entirely disable any other profession's only defense mechanism versus their offense.

Don't bring GTH or other broken nanos into this thread--other things being stupidly OP isn't an excuse to let this line of nanos go on untouched.

Good job removing the defense disablers or the game, I'm looking forward for that too.

Valid point, why should I take any care, even spend IP in NR if a you can throw it down the toilet ? A question to consider whenever a nemesis nano or something with 80% check is introduced.

[Hacre]

No, it needs to be removed or fundamentally changed.

No profession, regardless of how their combat system works, should be able to entirely disable any other profession's only defense mechanism versus their offense.

Don't bring GTH or other broken nanos into this thread--other things being stupidly OP isn't an excuse to let this line of nanos go on untouched.

Erm actually because of things like GTH and massive NR on Enforcers and people perking Notum Repulsor, even NR1, fights for NTs need to be over quickly or the NT is in a lot of trouble. Which is where CB comes in. Which is where my original reply to you comes in.

You can't take one thing away from NTs, without fixing the other things that CB enables.

The simple fact is, to remove CB, NTs need an AR boost, or defense checks lowered on doubles/triples, or the recharge times lowered, or the cast caps removed, or defensive tools improved so that NTs don't have to sacrifice nanoskills to not go splat the second a profession with 3k+ AR looks at them.

I did a wee experiment yesterday in a couple of BS rounds. I took CB off my hotbar. I soon gave up casting double/triple on anyone except Soldiers and Docs.

So without CB I'd need to go all out AR. Which means losing defensive hud, Alb bracer (also losing HP), Notucomm, 75aad as well as blind resist, switch Ofab sleeves for Scouts losing even more HP.

So I'd drop from about 14.5k HP self, to around 12k, standing defense against dodge would drop from around 2.8k (no towers atm) to around 2.4k. In other words, every encounter would quickly call for popping NBG and I'd spend more time out of the fight recovering nano than actually in action.

All that just to push MC to about 2.7k and gain an AR of about 2.8k. Which after the change to NR checking perks, sure I'd be perking people who aren't NR1/NR2. Bet you anything people will think a lot harder about losing something to pop a perk into NR1 or at least keep a perk banked.

TL;DR version, NT fights need to be over as quickly as possible due to the single threaded combat system and the amount of debuffs that screw an NT over pretty fast. Take away the enabler for that and other things need to be removed/fixed as well, which makes those things relevant to this discussion. A fair debate/conversation about CB doesn't start and end with "remove it".

[Sterva]

NTs are not glass cannons anymore. Remove CB and then address whatever problems NTs might have in a different manner.

[Pafpuf]

1s recharge on all nukes/roots and CB can be dumped.

[Sterva]

1s recharge on all nukes/roots and CB can be dumped.

Yeah, remove CB and then I will wish you a heart felt good luck on your conquest to get that.

[Mountaingoat]

NTs are not glass cannons anymore. Remove CB and then address whatever problems NTs might have in a different manner.

Whatever problems? Blindly nerf something you don't like while proposing no alternatives or even caring enough to understand what problems there would be?

Edit: Also you recognize that there would be a problem for NTs without CB, yet CB is still horribly op'd? Necessary implies not being op'd.

[Sterva]

Whatever problems? Blindly nerf something you don't like while proposing no alternatives or even caring enough to understand what problems there would be?

Yep.

That seems to be the trend, and CB is clearly the most OP nano ingame, so following the trend, it needs a nerf. Someone else who knows more about NTs can figure out a better way to fix them after nerfing it.

[Mountaingoat]

So if NTs had each and every one of their nukes removed, and could only use CB to kill people it would still be horribly op'd?

Your a low healing evade profession posting about NTs, what a coincidence, that happens to be the NTs bread and butter opponent.

[Racatti]

CB renders any kinda NR-twinking obsolete as well as letting NT not even having to think about twinking their AR. Oh and it lasts 1 minute without any means of removing it.

It is stupidly OP beyond any reason.

[Mountaingoat]

NR isn't the "counter" for NTs. Plenty of professions could still beat NTs without ip'ing NR at all. We are thinking about def ratings instead of AR. Agree on shorter duration and removability of CB though.

[Sterva]

So if NTs had each and every one of their nukes removed, and could only use CB to kill people it would still be horribly op'd?

Your a low healing evade profession posting about NTs, what a coincidence, that happens to be the NTs bread and butter opponent.

If I were the pope, would it be a mortal sin to kill me? Hypotheticals like this are surely constructive.

NR isn't the "counter" for NTs. Plenty of professions could still beat NTs without ip'ing NR at all. We are thinking about def ratings instead of AR. Agree on shorter duration and removability of CB though.

Strangely, the fact that you are right backs up the entire point of this thread.

NR, currently, is NOT the counter for NTs. It should be. It's the defensive check on all of your offense, but it might as well not even exist. CB removes NR as a valid form of defense, hence CB must be nerfed.

The end!