Acrobat Rework

[lostlife]

evades are primary def for ma fix and shade, ma heals are laughable (but effective when combined with acro) shades only real def at that lv is evades, and maybe a little healing from TR and diffuse and some debuffs depending on how perks are set up (would leave no room for PM and CiB, i assume at that lv shades dont use SP though so debuffs are removed in place of either more ar or more defence) and fixs, dont know alot about fixs, some one fill me in.

advies hold acro coon and relatively good heals, which is a bit much, reducing advy access to acro to 3 would solve more than a few probs

also, acro is being nerfed loosing 80 static evades because new documentation says adds 110 total, not 190

you also need to compensate for the unknown, IE changes to items and nanos, which there has been no documentation on. untill we see that the whole picture cant be seen, we cant be truely objective

what im trying to say means, is that we need more documentation on that

[McKnuckleSamwich]

evades are primary def for ma fix and shade, ma heals are laughable (but effective when combined with acro) shades only real def at that lv is evades, and maybe a little healing from TR and diffuse and some debuffs depending on how perks are set up (would leave no room for PM and CiB, i assume at that lv shades dont use SP though so debuffs are removed in place of either more ar or more defence) and fixs, dont know alot about fixs, some one fill me in.

advies hold acro coon and relatively good heals, which is a bit much, reducing advy access to acro to 3 would solve more than a few probs

also, acro is being nerfed loosing 80 static evades because new documentation says adds 110 total, not 190

you also need to compensate for the unknown, IE changes to items and nanos, which there has been no documentation on. untill we see that the whole picture cant be seen, we cant be truely objective

what im trying to say means, is that we need more documentation on that

limiting advy's to acrobat 3 seems to be the best proposition so far, but, my original suggestion is probably a little less shocking.

A group change on acrobat isn't in order. Shade's need more love, MA's are good. Fixers are reasonable. It's just the advy balance is screwed up.

[Fixerwink]

I would trade Acrobat perkline anytime for a Bio Shielding perkline....

[lostlife]

thing is that advies dont have to trade one for the other, which is a notable issue, but its impssoble to be objective till we know how the reitemization and nano changes will effect the balance of advies vs every one else

my solution to find out, some one with a 220/30/70 ranged advy challenge a GM to a fight in which a substantial amount of money, and the new info, is bet, with advies being the way they are its a sure thing

[oldschools]

Adventurers also have the same HP and enforcers, damage as soldiers and agents, heals as doctors and nuke harder than NT's.
I dont see adventurers dominating tl5 bs. It just pisses you of when you meet one with your obscene twink that you spent 5 billions on and it actually takes you time to kill someone.

Answer me this, what proffesions dominate TL5 bs?

*cough fixers, enforcers and nt's cough*

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Adventurers also have the same HP and enforcers, damage as soldiers and agents, heals as doctors and nuke harder than NT's.
I dont see adventurers dominating tl5 bs. It just pisses you of when you meet one with your obscene twink that you spent 5 billions on and it actually takes you time to kill someone.

Answer me this, what proffesions dominate TL5 bs?

*cough fixers, enforcers and nt's cough*

yea, but you add 1 advy to the omni or clan side, and if the other side is retarded, which they always are, you end up with 1 advy tanking 5 idiots while the rest of the side that the advy is on goes and caps all the points, so, it's still retarded any way you look at it.

[OfabRk2]

McKnuckle, sounds to me, after seeing some of your suggestions, like you're trying to get other professions nerfed in a way that your professions are unaffected.

[Kilmanagh]

Acrobat is fine.
Advy's are overpowered against most professions at TL7. My MA can kill most docs all day, but even gimp Advys are hard to kill at times.. and average/good Advys are nearly impossible.

According to the profession descriptions.. MA's are supposed to be the ultimate evaders... Which is getting to be a joke in PVP. They gave other professions so much new stuff over the last few years and totally ignored the MA.
Red Dawn perk should heal a lot better than it does, if we are going to mess with perks....but dont mess with the evades please.

[Fifty50]

doc is pretty balanced at tl5, the others you listed are the top dogs.

I guess after proposed changes these will get nerfs: doc (very much), agent, trader (a fair bit) and Melee Adv (a bit). This leaves NT and Enf as top dogs.

[Shrubberyman]

I guess after proposed changes these will get nerfs: doc (very much), agent, trader (a fair bit) and Melee Adv (a bit). This leaves NT and Enf as top dogs.

Not really, evade enfos are gonna see their survivability drop (mainly because they/we are trox and we all know what's to befall to WotA) and their/our alpha nerfed by the new checks on AI perks (not whining, never thought the old 2*AAO made any sense), and that's without even knowing what kind of checks ConC will have.

As for NTs, I don't know why you take into account the announce on heals nerf for doc but decide to not mention the announce that NTs post SL nanos are going through a transformation process that will prolly change the profession beyond recognition (in good or bad).

Let's agree that as long as trader drains get nerfed, TL5 can only get better

[Saetos]

Let's agree that as long as trader drains get nerfed, TL5 can only get better

All that really needs to happen to Trader drains is shortening the duration on both the caster and the target by about half. A Trader is meant to be terrific in controlled 1v1 combat, but if some other guy comes barreling down and throws the Trader off his rhythm, the Trader should either be in great danger, or die. I will sincerely agree that 3:30 is way too long for instacast drains - 1:20 for lowbie drains and 1:30-1:45 for Improved drains doesn't sound too bad.

[Fifty50]

I don't know why you take into account the announce on heals nerf for doc but decide to not mention the announce that NTs post SL nanos are going through a transformation process that will prolly change the profession beyond recognition (in good or bad).

Point me in the direction of this please?

[Ashes2Ashes]

Point me in the direction of this please?

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=563483 < 5th bullet point down.

[Troxxor]

Some interesting stuff in this thread. I mostly agree with Harce, +800 evade at 140 is insane esspecially for cooning advies. I'm wondering how many Opi's will be taking this + the beta perk for another 60def at TL5

On trader drains; yes they are insta cast, but it should be noted they're not spammable. Long recharges mean traders spend most of their time waiting to cast the next nano.... lol & probably thinking how nice it'd be to have some decent defensive perks

I do agree that trader drains are over the top at lower levels, early on you can ladder up really high. This should be addressed in balancing imo.

Trader drains at TL7 are fine imo though.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

McKnuckle, sounds to me, after seeing some of your suggestions, like you're trying to get other professions nerfed in a way that your professions are unaffected.

there has been unanimous support for keepers getting some love.

I have only asked seriously for nerfs to advies, which is completely in line with EVERYONE's opinions.

my recommendations follow this thrilling step by step logic:

• observe which profs are killable
• observe which profs are not killable
• observe other people fighting
• observe duel scores
• make mental notes on which profs appear to be easiest to play (that is, who idiot just arrived and is already throwing around words like "pwnd" and "you're gimp"
• notice which profs generall have significantly higher populations, and duel scores than others
• make notes on what prof specific bonuses they have including perk lines and weapons which seem to be unerringly prevalent on highly successful toons, such as (SSoS, coon, acrobat, UBT and CH, an AS weapon, etc)
• cross reference porfessional perks, with weapons, and AI levels, and apparent skill
• finally, determine which profs are OP'd, which are underpowered, and which are moderately powered.

As I have stated in other threads, my general concensus, which, for the record no-one has raised any significant issue with, as of yet, is as follows: (for TL5 ofc)

1. retardedly Op'd: Advy
2. Way Op'd agent FP doc
3. Slightly OP'd enf
4. middle to higher end of balanced: trader, NT, sold, MA, doctor
5. low end to middle of balanced: keeper, engy, MP, crat, fixer
6. weak: shade

Clearly, acrobat on it's own isn't an issue, advy however, needs a nerf. It's not that I'm trying to nerf all profs but mine. I'm trying to level the field a bit so all profs are worth playing, and there is a possibility of winning a fight SOME of the time vs profs that my prof is *supposed* to be strong against.

My immediate beef is that the prof I play is supposed to be a melee expert, yet, the three other melee profs (advy, enf, and MA) win 100% of the fights, against similarly equipped toons. This is not an exaggeration. I have not won a fight against a similarly equipped melee prof, and I have no shortage of experience. In fact, if you talk to any omni and ask which keeper they fear most at TL5 towers or BS it will be mine, YET, 1 on 1, I lose every single fight vs a decent melee prof.

tbh, I'd be happy with a 30% chance to win vs enf, MA or advy. I'd say balanced is between 30-70%, with optimal balance at 50-50, but, I'll be content with 30%.

Right now, yes, 0%, not 1 fight. I fight the best of the best, but, I have not won one fight on equally equipped enf/Ma/advy. I've tried every perk combination that is considered remotely competitive, I've farmed every item I can find that might help, tried AR swaps, evade swaps, sharp objects, only fight with dimach is up, reflect setups, evade setups, absorb setups, High HP, low HP, blinds, debuffs, generic debuffs, nano skil debuffs, CM, CC, 3 sets of Ofab, twinked at 3 different levels, 160, 165, 170, farmed 22 AI dings, omw to 23, twinked on completely ridiculous weapons, currently using a QL 284 kyr 112, made big towers, you name it, I've tried it.

and yet, success vs the three profs whom my prof is SUPPOSED TO BE STRONGEST AGAINST, I fail ever so poignantly.

so, yea, I'd like to see a bit of a nerf to advies. Ma's re getting a small nerf with 30s ES, enfs won't have a spammable first perk in the mutate line which is a perk tester, advies? I have yet to see anything that will bring them down from the lovechild pedestal.

[lostlife]

advies: Not many people can win against top of the line advies.
enfo: We're the meele experts, keepers are the supposed 2he experts, the general belief (and rightfuly so) is that 1HE (adding sneak attack) is the best choice for PVP. Add SA to 2he weps would provide adequate balancing (if not, say why, my keeper never got past 133 so im not very knowledgeable on them)
MA: SA added to alpha would put more pressure on MAs and could push the numbers.

As for your rating system, are you rating on kill to defensive ratio or usefullness? If its usefullness i disagree with fixers place as they can evade cap in absense of nano casting prof (or some one hotswaping leetdoll, checks 0% evade close, good idea on paper but never seen or tried it) so put fixer up a notch

Docs should to up a notch too, as they can defend by attacking cappers (who are not coon/acro cappers) while not dieing unless there is a stunner or zerg force (do to combination of heals and ubt).

Also, snares/roots can slow any one down who doesnt have a tool to remove it or resist it regularly, casing small delays that slow down capping enough to shift the balance. so crats should be put up a notch. Engis and fixers (though rare in my experiance) should be put up half a notch because there method is less effective (or less used), but still functioning. I totaly agree with most of your other ratings though

shades need i say more on that subject?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

ah, ya, in general my rating was in PVP in general, Open land, duels, BS.

sure, for anyone I'm sure it would be slightly different. generally though, you can see that the top three profs are well populated, and their duel scores are nearly all heavily weighted to the win column, if you need examples, I have many.

the rest are somewhere in the balanced realm, whether or not they are med-strong, or med-weak, is usually dependant on what prof you ask.

[OfabRk2]

I meant that you ask for nerfs in ways which your professions are unaffected, or even benefit form it, like your MA (220), who would still receives full benefit of DoF/Limber instead of a lower, scaled one like a TL5 MA or Fixer, etc. This will allow your Keeper to be able to perk evade profs. In another thread, (I can't exactly remember which) you asked for some nerf to Sneak attack or something... Like I said, I don't remember. But, all in all, it sounds like you want to nerf others in a way that you will benefit from their nerf.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I meant that you ask for nerfs in ways which your professions are unaffected, or even benefit form it, like your MA (220), who would still receives full benefit of DoF/Limber instead of a lower, scaled one like a TL5 MA or Fixer, etc. This will allow your Keeper to be able to perk evade profs. In another thread, (I can't exactly remember which) you asked for some nerf to Sneak attack or something... Like I said, I don't remember. But, all in all, it sounds like you want to nerf others in a way that you will benefit from their nerf.

you clearly didn't read my post. restating your case doesn't show that you're advancing the argument or even attempting to learn what my propositions are. It's obvious that all persons involved will gain from nerfing a prof who is blatantly OP'd. that much is true. I assess it form the standpoint of someone who plays against the OP'd prof, not from the OP'd profs point of view. I'm not trying to nerf people to benefit myself. I'm trying to even the playing field.

I've never asked for a nerf to sneak attack, I've only suggested that it's NAME belies that which should be operated under the cover of sneak. It you want to argue semantics, great, but again, sneak=sneak, and thats the name of the attack.

If acrobat is nerfed it will affect me as well, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I've never said I want to perk evade profs, except advy, without which, the fight is as lopsided as, well, a keeper vs an advy. if a keeper can't perk a prof that has has a CH, and coon, and as many healing options as advy we're screwed. And it's very well known. If you want to deconstruct an advy vs keeper fight, we can do that, but, if I were you, i'd just review what the general consensus is, because you won't find one person saying that a keeper vs advy fight is an even fight.

[Fifty50]

If you only wanna make advies less powerful, nerfing Acrobat is clearly the wrong approach. As you will not only affect no. 1 on your list, but also professions that are no. 4, 5, and even 6..
You will even hit no.5 and 6 the hardest, as evades are just about their only defense.

1. retardedly Op'd: Advy
2. Way Op'd agent FP doc
3. Slightly OP'd enf
4. middle to higher end of balanced: trader, NT, sold, MA, doctor
5. low end to middle of balanced: keeper, engy, MP, crat, fixer
6. weak: shade