Solution to the prob with zone debuffers

[_________Disciple092]

nothing hurts a good PvP session than when traders and docs start bouncing around the bunkers debuffing everything and zoning
Ive seen too many good battles break up because everyone is gettin debuffed for inits and skills so maybe FC can do this........

add a 30 or so NCU cost to the debuffer that lasts as long as the debuff on the target.kind of an "debuff upkeep cost"that stacks rather than refreshes so that the debuffer cant recast once his free ncu fills up(maybe lower the traders cost to 20 since they rely on 2 separate debuffs to get things done)

this way peeps can spend more time actually fighting instead of waiting in bunkers/other side of wompa for debuffs on half of the group to wear off

hear us FC ......we want a WARZONE not a WAITZONE
more fun less frustration plz

[_______________Fryli]

I agree upon the isue with grace used to debuff or "alpha" ppl, even tho i do it myself.

But common Disc.... u would die more often with a fix where initdebuff could not be casted on more then one person during the duration of the debuff then u have ever done before in big battles. What in the world would stop ppl from chainrooting or stunning if there is no doc around to stop them?

Only thing doc's are good at in big battles is to keep traders, rooters and other doc's debuffed along with healing ppl once now and then.

/sarcasm on

Why dont we make it so your UVC is a "one" target only, then u have to cast it again after target is dead to make it work at next target with the current nano-cost?

Edit: why not make it so every debuff wears of if the debuffer zone.... that might be to hard to code, but would be a nice solution.

[_________Disciple092]

Hehe sure we can go that route with UVC just as long as every PvPer hes to re-equip their weapon before they attack their next target
I love ya fry so dont u ever get mad at me over any crap that goes on in these forums but seriously i dont think docs are gonna be able to avoid the nerf bat for too much longer...all the whines for over the top nerfs are gonna catch FC's evil eye sooner or later...at least my suggestion wasnt some rediculous whine for a nerf on your heals

your a great class and docs deserve every ability they have.....xcept for that init debuff....with the exception of alphas init debuffs make me,a lv 200(and anyone else for that matter)muchMUCH slower than the day i started over a year ago.......that debuff may as well change my name to "Newarrival"after it hits me.......

plz understand that debuffs dont help keep anyone alive longer in PvPcept the doc in duels.......if debuffs were controlled.....i wouldnt have to worry about being singled out,rooted,or stunned cause all my buddies would be in the middle of the fight with me instead of on the outskirts of the fight waiting for alphas to recharge since thats all they can do when theyre debuffed.........Dorzeal wont be able to root and trueshot me when Voorg is able to blast away at him with his flashpoint,and Solaris wont be chain stunning me when Messman is able to send him running for his life

I know that debuffers need a fix but i cant imagine how it will be done since FC is most likely to overnerf.i would hate to see the oldtimer docs leave AO like the traders wound up doing after delayed health payment got changed...but at the same time...PvP has enuff things taking the fun out of it,it should be fast paced not about waiting in a safe place for debuffs to wear off

if anyone has a reasonable idea on how to fix it plz say something so we can bump this up till CZ sees it

[_________Disciple092]

What if FC made u unable to zone for 15 sec after u break grace?

We have a 15 sec "safe zone"....why not a 15 sec "danger zone"
Funcom made grace period to protect peeps from being jumped as they zone....maybe a 15 sec no zone period would save uf from peeps who take advantage of grace

That would save everyone from zone debuffers since we would have 15 sec to take care of those punks after they zone debuff

Now thats BALANCE!!......no nerf required

[Voorg]

Originally posted by Fryli
why not make it so every debuff wears of if the debuffer zone.... that might be to hard to code, but would be a nice solution.

Excellent Idea

[_____________Element]

I dont know...i agree with almost all of disciple's ideas. especially

"Hehe sure we can go that route with UVC just as long as every PvPer hes to re-equip their weapon before they attack their next target :P "

Yes, fryli...we all know you and every other pvp doc probably skip the healing other people process and go straight to debuffing and zoning...why heal when your target can barely hurt you, after all? I dont have much of a problem with the init debuffs...i guess i've gotten used to them over time...but the thing that pisses me off is that you can just zone...no harm done...and the person you debuffed has to wait for what seems like forever for the debuff to run out.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that debuffs should be made for combat...not skirmish tactics...i feel that if you choose to pop off a debuff you should have to stay and deal with the pissed off person on the recieving end of it.

Every person out there can make a doc or trader and powerlevel them to 150+...then just play ***** tactics and zone/debuff...to me it takes no skill, and is just a show of cowardice...

Yes, some might complain that they have 'weak' classes, and it's all that they can do...but thats total bull****. I've meet good pvpers from every proff and race, so i know they're out there.

[Julka_Pomy]

I dont know i think one thing that ruins AO pvp is ZONING!

Other games dont have zoning but game play is lame like AC2 looking at skill tree of some character i realise that it will be so much fun to pvp there especialy mass pvp on open space with no zoning where you fight to the death. They have everthing lots of area nukes, area debuffs personal debuffs and you can combine mele and magic ranged and area effects lots of posibilites but boring game play soloying is the only way to get good Xp teaming not benefitial, quests arent any better then Ao quests and vaults is basicaly a joke.

[Grontha]

/me liked the 15 sec "danger zone"

[assassimon]

Change so you can't zone for 3 min after you attack someone.



Pomy, they are planning on changing xp in AC2 because you level too fast in team, soloing isn't good at all, just a fyi

[______________Pho-Ku]

Originally posted by Fryli
why not make it so every debuff wears of if the debuffer zone.... that might be to hard to code, but would be a nice solution.

BUMP to that!

[____________Halfdeck]

why not make it so every debuff wears of if the debuffer zone.... that might be to hard to code, but would be a nice solution.
--Fryli

Sounds good, as long as people are not allowed to cancel any debuffs running on them by just zoning.



3 min wait on zoning after initiating an attack will be a severe disadvantage to the losing side. Notice that if omni's have control of 2ho, I don't ever need to zone, while clanners pop in and out of bunkers.

Lets say there are 20 omnis in 2ho and Azzazzimon is held up in the north bunker all by himself.

Azzazzimon pops out, takes a look around.
Me and other omnis target him and get ready to chain root alpha kill
Azzazzimon hits someone.
We attack
He zones back into bunker.
Rinse and repeat.

With 3 min wait on zone implemented:

Azzazzimon pops out, takes a look around.
We get ready to jump him.
Azzazzimon hits someone.
We hit full auto, burst, fling, aimshot, brawl, dimach.....
He zones back into a bunker with 10% hp... oops can't zone for 3 minutes.
Remains of Azzazzimon.

Pretty convenient for whoever side's got the upper hand.


Or even worse: 19 omni's hide near the hill and i have 1 omni agent in hiding near the bunker.


Azzazzimon pops out, takes a look and see no omnis around.
Agent says Azzazzimon is out and we countdown to 15.
Grace period ends and Agent goes out of sneak engaging Azzazzimon 1v1.
Azzazzimon attacks agent.
Rest of the omnis go out of sneak and jump in
Azzazzimon can't zone for 3 minutes.
Remains of Azzazzimon.

(Now imagine doing this to someone at the grid terminal)

Side note:

Debuffs are counterproductive when you have your enemy cornered, since debuffs act kind of like a de-taunt, forcing the enemy away from you. Only time when debuffs are useful is when you're outnumbered and need to push the enemy back some. Constant debuffs from either side will keep the battle at a stalemate.



Half

[_______________Fryli]

Halfdeck - thats why i proposed that the debuff only would wear of if the "debuffer" zoned, not if the target zoned.

[____________Halfdeck]

Originally posted by Fryli
Halfdeck - thats why i proposed that the debuff only would wear of if the "debuffer" zoned, not if the target zoned.

I would support that 100%.


Half

[_________Disciple092]

that wouldnt work either ...aside from the fast that FC would never spend the time to code a change like that....it would give the losing faction an even bigger disadvantage as the group controlling 2HO rarely has a need to zone...which means that the faction thats forced to zone cause thay are outnumbered wont be able to keep their enemies debuffed but they themselves will be the ones waiting out debuffs cause their targets dont need to zone

Were looking for balance,not the opposite

[_______________Fryli]

Then let the debuff wear off if the debuffer or target zone, and also make it so the15 sec grace makes it imposible to initiate combat as i sugested in Patk's tread about grace.

This would keep the momentum in battles up and debuffs would not be that anoying.