Another agent idea that even agent-haters will enjoy!

[Kinkst44h]

Hello everyone.

There's definitely a lot of agent ideas floating around, and I've noticed a pattern that they get run into the ground quickly by clueless agent haters. Clearly there is a missing piece of information between Agents and non-agents about how this class really performs.

A lot of the agent-rage comes from people who simply state agents are great when they are in sneak, or they really arent too bad when they can choose the terms of the engagement, while most agents scream about debuffs ruining whatever fun they can get from the game.

Both points are valid, and having played my agent recently I can attest to both sides of the story. From sneak, agents can do a lot, and really ruin peoples days by appearing at inoppourtune moments. For example, appearing right next to a trader the instant he tries to drain someone else, and has a few seconds of recharge, doesn't know you are there, etc.

Or popping out with a well timed CH to turn the tide of battle. Etc. Or both.

Very agenty. Fun, too.

However the major issue with this is concealment.
Concealment in BS is ****ing boring.
Noone does it. And to get the most "fun" out of your agent you are realistically forced to do this, which results in about 1 fight per BS where you can actually use this to your advantage.

So agents dont sneak. Thus, they run around unsneaked, which opens them up to a world of ass ****ingly huge debuffs that are launched with a single click from practically everyone on the BS.

The easy fix for this is to raise concealment speed, relative to the concealment skill of the user (this even helps shades!), and as a side effect of classes using their toolset properly, having PLAYER CONTROLLED TIMING (a skill) be part of a defence toolset of a class, it would also have another little side effect of being FUN.

Add that, a touch more AR (or a rework of bullseye making it a hostile perk you can use from sneak, which DOES NOT UNSNEAK YOU), and an ability to re-enter sneak when in combat (say, 1min cooldown.. people can easily kill an agent with a 1 minute window)

And suddenly Agents will stop whining, without making them a fantastic lovechild (you can still squish one when it pops, infact you'll have to) but a WHOLE lot less frustrating and annoying to play.

1000 conceal = 25% of RS
2000 conceal = 50% of RS
3000 conceal = 75% of RS

Consider it. It's simple. It's effective. It's logical, it fits in with stealth class toolsets, it makes Concealment a useful skill to max out, and it makes playing both classes a shedload more fun.

[Marinegent]

This, while potentially nice to have, hardly does anything more than delay agent problems for more than a few seconds.

Not the solution we need, but it is a neat little idea that I could see worth adding after the real issues are addressed.

[sultryvoltron]

Been suggested before, not exactly the same but the same general idea. I think it's great. I'd love to see this make it in game. Could also apply to shades.

[Kinkst44h]

This, while potentially nice to have, hardly does anything more than delay agent problems for more than a few seconds.

Not the solution we need, but it is a neat little idea that I could see worth adding after the real issues are addressed.

I think in the hands of a skilled player this doesnt just "delay agent problems a few seconds"
In a game like AO those seconds can dictate winning or losing a fight, and always having that advantage would make a signifigant shift in how the class plays and the entertainment in doing so.

Though, if you waste your time duelling this will not assist in any way.

[Khione]

As a shade player i see even more benefit for my profession in this. Agents at least have range to their credit. Sneak is absolutely useless to a melee character in its current pvp standing.

[Marinegent]

I think in the hands of a skilled player this doesnt just "delay agent problems a few seconds"
In a game like AO those seconds can dictate winning or losing a fight, and always having that advantage would make a signifigant shift in how the class plays and the entertainment in doing so.

Though, if you waste your time duelling this will not assist in any way.

Being a skilled player isn't going to prevent someone from init debuffing me, GTH'ing me, or hitting me with RI.

The only advantage to sneak is a few seconds of surprise. I will admit that against soldiers, and profs I can perk without DoF up (after landing bullseye..) those few seconds give me a chance to take them down before their defenses are up.

But this is something that can be done already, and even so I hardly consider it skilled of me to kill someone who's defenses aren't up or they are unaware of my presence. It's nice for a revenge kill once in awhile, but other than that, it's just cheap tactics.

As for "wasting" my time dueling... you learn more in a duel than you do in BS pvp where some professions perks may or may not be up, and where people are OSB'd tooth and nail, among other factors such as OTHER PLAYERS. I'll happily continue my dueling and become a better player.

[Obtena]

Being a skilled player isn't going to prevent someone from init debuffing me, GTH'ing me, or hitting me with RI.

Simply depends when you decide to act and reveal yourself. Like Kink said, if you do it while other guy is in recharge, or busy with some other thing, you're advantage is quite large.

Persronally, I think you should have the same RS in sneak as you do revealed. That would fix some shade issues too.

[Sterva]

So agents should be able to run around BS and move wherever they like with impunity?

[sultryvoltron]

So agents should be able to run around BS and move wherever they like with impunity?

((This should be read like I'm an NT telling you how to beat Triples))

Get more perception.

[Shrubberyman]

Excepted "Get more NR" actually worked

[Pafpuf]

1% of total current runspeed for every 50 points in concealment, voila.

[Lupusceleri]

((This should be read like I'm an NT telling you how to beat Triples))

AoE root more.

Fixed.

Sterva is a crat after all.

Excepted "Get more NR" actually worked

Really? Every time I encounter a NT I see my NR drop like a rock, how much I have at the start is irrelevant because that nano'll land anyway.

[Ayria]

Fixed.

Sterva is a crat after all.

I seem to remember a discussion about the uses of AoE roots to knock people out of Sneak. Personally I still feel it's a cheap trick but if we get the ability to zoom around BS while in Sneak I won't feel so annoyed when a root comes out and grabs me.

I'd suggested Shadow Blitz a while back to mixed reception (as if anything on this forum is accepted fully ) and this idea is quite similar to it. Though passive and giving less run speed it's probably more feasible for Funcom to pull off with the current engine.

[sultryvoltron]

Excepted "Get more NR" actually worked

"Get more Perception" will work too.

And that's pretty much a pass or fail check. The only way to gain complete immunity against nukes is to have infinite NR. That's just simply how % based checks work. There is always a possibility to get nuked unless you have infinite NR.

[Kinkst44h]

Being a skilled player isn't going to prevent someone from init debuffing me, GTH'ing me, or hitting me with RI.

Sure it will - They cant do it to you in sneak, especially after they go after a soldier, or an enforcer, or some non squishy target then they are setup for teh agent love.

(after landing bullseye..) those few seconds give me a chance to take them down before their defenses are up.

I also suggested bullseye be an offensive perk that does not break sneak to use, that all agents could/should employ. Your opponent would see it and know whats coming, of course - But thats

But this is something that can be done already, and even so I hardly consider it skilled of me to kill someone who's defenses aren't up or they are unaware of my presence. It's nice for a revenge kill once in awhile, but other than that, it's just cheap tactics.

You aren't an agent, then. The ability to do this, should be considered a vital part of the agent toolset.

As for "wasting" my time dueling... you learn more in a duel than you do in BS pvp where some professions perks may or may not be up, and where people are OSB'd tooth and nail, among other factors such as OTHER PLAYERS. I'll happily continue my dueling and become a better player.

You will learn more doing real PVP without rules than anything else - But this is not the discussion for such trite matters.

So agents should be able to run around BS and move wherever they like with impunity?

In a word, yes.
And it will make concealment an actual defence in a way, a workable, usable defence that isnt acrobat, bio cocoon, AMS, insane heals, etc.

[mr_road]

you learn more in a duel than you do in BS pvp where some professions perks may or may not be up, and where people are OSB'd tooth and nail, among other factors such as OTHER PLAYERS. I'll happily continue my dueling and become a better player.

the main thing you learn in duel's is if the other person is a kiter or a stander.

[NoGoal]

However the major issue with this is concealment.
Concealment in BS is ****ing boring.

If you only hate it in BS, BS is the problem, not conceal.

I agree that conceal moving speed could be a little higher but not a % of your buffed run speed. And I also think that a sneak in fight button should exist with an extended lock on conceal.

[Kinkst44h]

I should say instead that using conceal to win in any kind of PVP is either frowned upon (duels), or not really practical if you want to play mroe than 2-3 enounters in 20 minutes (BS) simply due to the speed issue.

Other games have concealment speed, and these games move far slower than AO does. To have AO game speed (RS wise) and WALKING sneak speed is um, not suitable.

[NoGoal]

In other games you can't be entirely invisible either. But that's other games ; ).

[Shrubberyman]

Every time I encounter a NT I see my NR drop like a rock, how much I have at the start is irrelevant because that nano'll land anyway.

Heh, it said "Triples", not "2 CB, a blind, dwl and Triple"