Grace Period: Are you kidding?

[______________Znails]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
Make all bunkers 25% and only 5 sec grace while zoning from 1 25% zone to another.

Else I think can't attack while in grace or can't zone for 15 sec after YOU attack, not if you just being attack, you have to attack/debuff someone, else you should be able to zone.

i think that would kill 2ho.. i mean if clanners have no safe place while omnis just whompa out...

the bunker serves more purpose than just bunker jumping.. i mean thats the place where you rally the ppl and buff eachother and wait for the debuffs to wear off..

[____________Psiraven]

"i rember catching psi raven running to helo bunker to help buds"

I was by myself, there may have been more Omni at the outpost, but none that was nearby...I had chased Morbid to the bunker and was waiting for him to come out again, which he did, just as you showed up.

I was paying attention to Morbid, so I was quite surprised to see my demon suddenly rooted from someone behind me.

Since I was at half nanopool and my weapon specials were used up, I wasn't going to stand and face two good NT players simulataneously with my pet already rooted from the very get-go.

So I ran.

I don't pvp with Psi anymore. Maybe again someday.

[Lifthrasil]

I totally Agree with You Patk9, it allready happened to me while Missioning in 2h0 i got rooted from i High LVL Player then he left into Bunker i think and then i Same LVL NT came out, he Nuked me to Death since im MA i couldnt hit him but even Pressing "q" made no Diference, i also switched to my Noobi Bow but no Chance i was Dead and if i had a Sma^ll Chance i had none because he abused the Grace Period...

I wont tell Names or Something like it, in 25% is War Zone and my fould Doing Missions there, and im not the kinda Whiner Type of Guy

Just wanna say i tottaly Agree with you and i hope FC will look for some Solutions...

Proud Applicant of Lost Chapter...

Sin

[______________Jerrak]

i would say take grace away completely, or add it to 75%, but if its taken away, i hafve some RL friend who play this game, and they dont have the "best" computers, so they would be zone killed.

instead, maybe make a new grid, a clan and an omni grid. Omnis use omnis, clans use clans, neutrals use all. so they grid to different outposts in 2h0 and other zones. Make both grid areas heavily guarded, and encourage PvP out in the wilderness, where you can run around, and Frame Rate runs free.

sorry for hijacking thread, but its an idea 8)

[Arinia]

1) You can't decrease the grace period; just because your computer loads in 5 seconds doesn't mean everyone elses' does.

Hell, I say bump it to 20 seconds and make it so you can't attack while it's not expired.

2) Singling out particular docs zoning and debuffing is extremely unfair. EVERY doc and trader zone-debuffs. I'm sorry. In fact, I bet there were a few docs that were really really sad when the zone-dot-full damage bug was fixed (not mentioning any names because there were so many).

3) None of this is going to solve any problems, because what happens when there's not a 10 on 10 fight in 2ho? When it's just 3 on 3? Noone dies. Everyone runs around shooting each other -- when your HP gets to 50%, you zone. People try to zone out and get a lucky alpha (BTW, stop zone-alphaing me, you're not gonna kill me with 1 alpha when I have RRFE and 11,000 HP). *yawn*

[____________Halfdeck]

Well, think the simple fix to this would be to not allow people to initiate combat in any way for those 15 seconds.
--Peisinoe

Sounds good to me.


All you got to do is not crowd around the entrance. Problem solved.
---Psiraven

Agreed. Very few docs/traders will go out of their way to debuff in grace unless they can tab someone right after they zone in. If they have to run to the target to debuff, chances are they'll have to run back -- in which case they can be chain rooted, debuffed and alphaed to death.


possible fix dont let chars that engaged in combat zone for 2 min
-nirax

Thumbs down on this one. The winning side never needs to zone in 2ho. Removing the option to zone would make many if not all from the losing side to just hit /terminate


Half

[________Billy Talent]

Ideas that I agree with

- Can't initiate combat while under the 15 second grace period. No matter how long your target has been in a PvP zone.

- If you initiate combat, ie: I debuff you, you can't zone for 15 seconds. The problem that might arise with a 2 min - no zone - is that your target might use it against you and zone. Now you are left in the open for 2 mins without no escape at all. This is extremely bad for professions like NTs and other non-healing classes that have weak defensive skills. So if you are going to push for a 2 min no zone rule, then the following should apply:

If you initate combat with someone then both parties shouldn't be able to zone for a certain amount of time. This prevents either party from exploiting the other. Like I said before it is easy to exploit a one way no zone rule. Look at what is happening now with the grace period. The way I see it is if you are willing to step into a PvP zone you shouldn't expect to be safe. It is like stepping into a warfield and expecting a 100% guarantee that you will survive. Just because you didn't start the fight doesn't mean that you should have the advantage. Again no one pushed you into the warfield.

Before something like this is even implemented some more PvP balance needs to be worked on. Those of you that can complete heal are safer then those that can't.

[_____________Niraxtc]

halfdeck:
|
Thumbs down on this one. The winning side never needs to zone in 2ho. Removing the option to zone would make many if not all from the losing side to just hit /terminate
|

and losing their points after having /terminated if they got the slightest scratch

but as you surely saw i considered that idea in favor to hajks

funny tho that in daoc where you cant zone but only can try to reach a "safe" keep ppl seems to stand in fights. maybe its cause you cant actually lose realm points.

[Skymarshal]

I jsut want to add that I think Arinia hit it on the head pretty well.

If my memory serves me this thread showed up about the same time that Clan spent 3 hours camping the whompah into 2ho, with 3x the numbers, and 4x the lag at the whompah.

The point is that zoning into a zone, and getting killed before you have control of your toon is the reason for grace, and that should superceed all other problems.

Just means that we need to come up with other nice, solutions.

Such as those presented here, However, hehe even being a soldier I am not fond of the no-zoning for first 15seconds of combat, because it causes problems, where someone is un-aware of the number of people in 2ho, so they go to look, and they lag, and get aggroed jsut as they hit the zone, by 234238478 people camping it so that people specificaly lag and tey can be "easy" targets.... jsut doesnt make sense, its easeir to deal with bunker hopping.... I'm not a rooting class either so

[Deskclerk]

Originally posted by Psiraven
"i rember catching psi raven running to helo bunker to help buds"

I was by myself, there may have been more Omni at the outpost, but none that was nearby...I had chased Morbid to the bunker and was waiting for him to come out again, which he did, just as you showed up.

I was paying attention to Morbid, so I was quite surprised to see my demon suddenly rooted from someone behind me.

Since I was at half nanopool and my weapon specials were used up, I wasn't going to stand and face two good NT players simulataneously with my pet already rooted from the very get-go.

So I ran.

I don't pvp with Psi anymore. Maybe again someday.

i would have to very fast

but that was when pvp was fun wasnt it?

[____________Halfdeck]

Originally posted by nirax

funny tho that in daoc where you cant zone but only can try to reach a "safe" keep ppl seems to stand in fights. maybe its cause you cant actually lose realm points.

Yeah well..In Daoc if I wanted out of a zone I /danced in front of hibs till they make up their mind to hack me to pieces .. which took a long time for some of them to do to a lvl 50 zerker

No zoning worked alright in DaoC.

-- When outnumbered you regroup at the teleport keep (or whatever they were called ) and wait for reinforcements. Some of the guards at these keeps were super uber, once trained they would kill 100-200 lvl 50 (top level) players one by one.. lol

--Once you decide to charge the enemies you usually either win or die... no where to run unless the fight was near a friendly keep so you usually fought to the death (except uber fast skalds).

--Even after you die there was a chance a healer would come and rez you.


EDIT: No zoning will never work in 2ho, maybe because there are no places except whompa arena/bunker to regroup and get reinforcements, both of which are only useful because you can zone. Without zoning basically there's no way to regroup in 2ho.





Half

[Patk]

I didnt think taking grace out was gonna be a fix, i dont remember suggesting that part but seems it got passed into the thread somehow. I know grace is needed for some (even myself with my 128 RAM) But the way its used isnt for zoning/loading by everyone.

[Obit]

I like how DAoC does the grace period, it seems they put more thought into changes than the dumb ****s at FC.
Anyway, what they do is you have 2 minutes of invulnerability when you enter a pvp area, and 15 sec if you log into a pvp area, BUT! if you move a bit (~15 feet), grace period gets lifted and you can be shot at.

This, coupled with inability to zone for 2-3 minutes after entering a pvp zone would work very well for AO IMO.
Not likely that FC would ever get off their butts and change it though.

[Shadelore]

I solve the problem by not haning around close to a zone, then those I attack have a long way to run.

A problem you do not foresee, by taking away zoning is that there will probably be even less ppl willing to fight.

Any side at disadvantage would be even less inclined to engage in battle to make a try at least, since there will be no option of retreat...

I see this suggestion coming from ppl with no roots, who are very selfishly trying to get their own way of rooting, and I must support Psi in that will not solve anything....

I wouldnt enter a fight in 2ho without GSF, wolfform and in mimic fixer under these conditions, cause more often than not, the locust swarms of the clans outnumber omni, and I would get even less ppl with me to fight if they have no option of retreat...

We would get camelot tactics in 2ho, clanners filling up the place with so many ppl that noone else can viably enter at all...

Cant see this making pvp any better...Tho I agree zoning sucks, especially when u are the one hunting someone

[stromm]

The topic of grace period is beneficial and not beneficial depending on the situation. I notice people only complain about grace when they're bunker or whompa camping...switch sides, anyway you look at it, you'd use grace period to your advantage...So ppl will hate it when it allows others to escape but like it when it allows them to escape..

Just keep it the way it is, imho, there will be disadvantages and advantages either way you look at it.

[kylee]

grace period only after gridding would be cool, you cant 'zone back' in that situation either

[loca]

yeah make farmers farming..its elite job)

[___________Villianic]

I agree with the 'No initiating of combat while under grace" idea.

If you're a noob, you have the chance to zone back if you didn't know it was PVP. If you're a PVPer, you have the chance to get away from the grid/whompa and prevents camping.

If others can't attack you then theres absolutely NO reason why you should be able to attack others.

[Isgrimnur]

Originally posted by Patk9
Grace period was implimented for 1 reason, to prevent camping zone spots to get an easy, defenseless kill. What has this achieved? Yes it has stopped the easy,defenseless killing (if lag can help it) but what else has it brought with it....

I'll start with mmd. only part of the zone usually pvped in is the town area, the border is all safe, but the town and small area of land around it is 25%. I see with the grid drop in either 75 or 100%, what is the reason for grace? All grace does there is give people 15 seconds to run to the grid and leave once they see danger, where's the fun in that?

Onto 2ho, the reason i started this thread. I know both sides are guilty, but the zoning is getting out of control with abuse of the grace period. Jacksr is probly the one known most for this cheap tactic, he will run to a bunker of choice, debuff someone and zone while he is safe that entire time. Traders zone out, divest or plunder and zone back in safely because of the grace period. Doctors will zone out, initiative debuff and zone back in safely because of guess what....grace period. The strategy for both sides has become zone out , use majority of the 15 seconds grace to all lock on same target, all attack and kill instantly , zone......1 by 1 they kill like that.

My point is grace isnt what it used to be, its not to keep people safe anymore, its to give advantage to the zoning side. I made this thread to make FC aware and to let the player base discuss if there are any "better" solutions for it...im sick of people getting debuffed for the 3 mins and going afk in safe zone til its off, wtf is the fun in that kind of pvp.

Should be:

Grace = Safety, and not: Grace = advantage

IMO you shouldnt be able to zone once you initiate pvp combat until you or the other person is dead or 5min time limit.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Disciple092
no need for a 2 min wait till u can zone nirax...the wait should be 15 sec to zone once u start combat same as grace....thats more than enuff time to "tame" a zone camper anyways

Yeah, let's just nerf soldiers even more.