Keepers are Calling to be Fixed.

[randomalpha]

well about keepers and enforcers
when i met keeper in BS they can't force me to ams even when they go full alpha they only take about 10-13k HP and they get debuffed perked caped with every thing even the keep in dodge setup .. ..
but when it comes to enf the stuns they got and the much more dmg they force me to ams + , yes i can perk enfs much easier but well my fa don't cap as they have less dodge but to cap fa i need much more bullets to do , due to their much more HP
so what i mean from all the crap that the current dmg output of keepers is laughable not sure if parry reposit will be enough for their survivability

[Hacre]

@ Kink

Without ditching a shed load of attack rating or evade clsc or nano resist (ie, ofab sleeves, dalja pants, mystical shirt, swap hhab and/or knights ring for aad or +dodge rings, regular notucomm or wearing CSS instead of CC) then average Keeper total dodge is around the 3-3.1k mark which I believe Enforcers aren't that far away from. It's dark blue for Keepers too and not much buffing to dodge/duck comes by way of perks or nanos. Slightly higher than Enforcers probably, but not enough to make a difference given how much AR most ranged professions have.

Capped hits aside, superior hp/s is superior hp/s. Bear in mind though not once have I really complained all that much about Keeper survivability, if you catch one with all their perks up yes it can take quite some time to drop one. The main issue is that the Keeper just isn't killing much. No stuns, no interrupting as you mentioned, no decent special attacks, no init debuffs or nano init debuffs etc.

[NoGoal]

Having both keeper and enfo, the dif in dodge between my 2 toons is 400ish before temp perks/procs. Keeper having a full dodge setup.

It seems a lot but considering the AR solds and fixers have it won't change much. New HM perk + parry + wit will help tho, if you are atrox..

Any def isn't the keeper issue, even if keepers always ask for more for some reason. Keepers need:
- a better offensive option. The only one they have (Street Samurai) need more improvements. Removing the ranged init debuff won't change anything.
- a high support role option.
- give each aura its own line and make NCU the limitation factor.
- more in fight actions with low timers to kill the q/afk myth.
- fix DR.

That should be enough to make most keepers happy.

[cOrnfl3X]

Damage,Damage & Damage ...

Keepers need more damage how can TL7 Charctar alpha goes to 10-12 Damage[Max] in PvP?!

Either way , we dont have Cap skill , We cant survive anymore Vs new HIGH Attack rates ... even the low AR profs , now have low check on thier perks , aint this unfair ?!

We'r the Only prof who cant kill Soldier W/O AMS which is the only defence for them.. maybe thats abig Laugh OUT Loud?!

We'r the Only prof which doesnt have Cap skill , or the ability to Use cap skill as Static Skill

We'r the Only Prof which doesnt have Good alpha , Even [Doctors] Odds us in damages.

We'r The Only Prof Which doesnt have Prof Perks , as we'r masters of 2he , where's our 2he Perk , huh? Street wha? and after making Slice&Dice Low Damage whatcha we gonna do?!

We'r The Only Prof Which doesnt have Changed much Since AI expansion...

We'r The Only Prof Which Cant See all Our buffs running together in NCU...

We'r The Only Prof Which Havent Been Active for PvP Since Every Profs Got Good Modifiers/buffs , and we hasnt any.

We'r The Only Prof Which Have Only 1 Weapon Setup , As we'r Masters of 2Hand-Edged , Then Maybe we Need 3Hand Edged to be good?!

WTB More of "We'r The Only Prof".... Hoping we Get Fixed.

[sultryvoltron]

- more in fight actions with low timers to kill the q/afk myth.

It may not be q/afk but it's certainly like playing a light up keyboard (in PvM).

Still a good post though.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

@ cornflex :"We'r The Only Prof Which Have Only 1 Weapon Setup , As we'r Masters of 2Hand-Edged , Then Maybe we Need 3Hand Edged to be good?!"

I guffawed at work.

but, I agree about al this, street samurai, IF we are supposed to be 2he masters, we need some VERY seriously better damage perks AND AR on this line... and NOT sepputek smash on perk 10

What corn said: we have no capping hit and it screws us over badly. Our alpha at whatever level, needs to be about 30% stronger imo.

There are so many high HP profs that we can't even do justice on, due to absorbs and reflects it's retarded. Solds at Tl5 can wtf pwn me without AMS, and enfs aren't even bothered... I'm like a flea nipping at his HP... I'm starting to feel like a frigging trader.

And, even if we could do the damage, the perks don't land on evade profs who we "would" otherwise be able to kill, but don't have a hit that is gauranteed to land.

[Kinkst44h]

@ Kink

Without ditching a shed load of attack rating or evade clsc or nano resist (ie, ofab sleeves, dalja pants, mystical shirt, swap hhab and/or knights ring for aad or +dodge rings, regular notucomm or wearing CSS instead of CC) then average Keeper total dodge is around the 3-3.1k mark which I believe Enforcers aren't that far away from. It's dark blue for Keepers too and not much buffing to dodge/duck comes by way of perks or nanos. Slightly higher than Enforcers probably, but not enough to make a difference given how much AR most ranged professions have.

It's about 400 dodge. 400. And thats on dodge, I assume your evade is MUCH more than 400 higher than an enf.

Capped hits aside, superior hp/s is superior hp/s. Bear in mind though not once have I really complained all that much about Keeper survivability, if you catch one with all their perks up yes it can take quite some time to drop one. The main issue is that the Keeper just isn't killing much. No stuns, no interrupting as you mentioned, no decent special attacks, no init debuffs or nano init debuffs etc.

Right, so you made this many posts to basically agree with me that all keepers really lack is the a way to kill healers or disable them? Which may be moot, post heal changes where keepers may just outlast their opponents? Right. Glad we all got there in the end.

[NoGoal]

400 with dodge setup on keeper. Remove notucomm (not modified)(80), dalja skirt(50), ofab sleeves(90), mystical shirt(50), observant gloves(30) and boots(30) and you are at 210 with CC parts and enf ofab back.

[Hacre]

Right, so you made this many posts to basically agree with me that all keepers really lack is the a way to kill healers or disable them? Which may be moot, post heal changes where keepers may just outlast their opponents? Right. Glad we all got there in the end.

It's not just healers. Anyone one point above our attack rating in evades+aad isn't getting perked. Which, unlike Enforcers, reduces Keeper damage to regular hits, brawl and fast attack.

Anyone heavily perk reliant to kill people has problems in PvP. Look how many Trox MR Shades there are. People shouldn't be penalised in core PvP functionality just because they didn't roll Atrox.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

It's not just healers. Anyone one point above our attack rating in evades+aad isn't getting perked. Which, unlike Enforcers, reduces Keeper damage to regular hits, brawl and fast attack.

Anyone heavily perk reliant to kill people has problems in PvP. Look how many Trox MR Shades there are. People shouldn't be penalised in core PvP functionality just because they didn't roll Atrox.

This sums up the problem better than anyone I've heard yet.

however BAD it is for shades, it's WORSE for keepers, becasue we don't have SA.

Period, end of discussion, FIXPLZ

[Noky69]

This sums up the problem better than anyone I've heard yet.

however BAD it is for shades, it's WORSE for keepers, becasue we don't have SA.

Period, end of discussion, FIXPLZ

/agreed

it honestly does piss me off that im so limited because i rolled solitus. back in jan 2004. oh yeah. no MR back then. stupid FC. remove F'd up perks like MR.

[Moonbolt]

It's not just healers. Anyone one point above our attack rating in evades+aad isn't getting perked. Which, unlike Enforcers, reduces Keeper damage to regular hits, brawl and fast attack.

Anyone heavily perk reliant to kill people has problems in PvP. Look how many Trox MR Shades there are. People shouldn't be penalised in core PvP functionality just because they didn't roll Atrox.

i completely agree with this statement Hacre but that is the same for every perk dependant profession jsut as u said.
enforcers is highly perk dependant to kill anyone aswell just like keepers are.

[BeyondHuman]

It's not just healers. Anyone one point above our attack rating in evades+aad isn't getting perked. Which, unlike Enforcers, reduces Keeper damage to regular hits, brawl and fast attack.

Anyone heavily perk reliant to kill people has problems in PvP. Look how many Trox MR Shades there are. People shouldn't be penalised in core PvP functionality just because they didn't roll Atrox.

1. i completely agree with hacre
2. so ,enfs have much better healing than keepers ,but in this case,their absorbers with their healings make'm really stronger...
3. also weapon options,enfs has more reliable attacks under their great endurance and AR...
if u roll keeper trox,with MR,it becomes a bit more pvp but in the end it s not fair for the people who rolled non trox keepa...

[Moonbolt]

1. enfs have pretty good healing yes. Imongo heals 510 HP every 2 secs.

2. absorbs isnt all that powerful after the nerf.

3. enfs has more wepon options yes.. 2he is still considered the favourite option for pvp tho.
exactly the same option as keeper has.

[cOrnfl3X]

3. enfs has more wepon options yes.. 2he is still considered the favourite option for pvp tho.
exactly the same option as keeper has.

Then , make toon on Rk2 , and see if 2he is the favourite weapon option for enfs

[McKnuckleSamwich]

1. enfs have pretty good healing yes. Imongo heals 510 HP every 2 secs.

2. absorbs isnt all that powerful after the nerf.

3. enfs has more wepon options yes.. 2he is still considered the favourite option for pvp tho.
exactly the same option as keeper has.

ya, this is not my experience.

On RK2, every enf has 1he/1hb, SA on 1HE, and perks for 1HB. It's the top setup, and the only other possibility is MR 2HE alpha, which is still ok, but lacks SA, so is useless if you don't have MR against a decent evader.

which means keepers get screwed, 1. because our insight buff doesn't pop 250 AAO
2. is FAR from instantaneous 3. if youre non trox, you're gimped, 3. we don't have SA, 4. 250 AAO at level 150ish vs 135 on insight... bleh, need I go on?

[Kopecz]

2he is still considered the favourite option for pvp tho.

I gotta comment on this: Just because most of the enfs you see in RK1 BS are still running around with giant axes may make it the current favorite option, but it doesn't make it the best option. As the 2 preceding posts pointed out, the really good pvp enfs are running around 1he/1hb or 1hb/piercing for Sneak Attack. Also, I'm not counting 2-handed enfs that hotswap PE or SOFC for SA, which is still slower than having a SA weapon in-hand.

[Phryx]

and nerf their 50% def check perks too !

[McKnuckleSamwich]

and nerf their 50% def check perks too !

I think those are getting nerfed... check the documention, I think theres been a couple of increases up to 80-90%.

[Kopecz]

I'll quote myself from another thread for those of you too lazy to look at the .pdf files:

If you'd even bothered to read the .pdf files Means provided you'd have noticed that 1hb's Devestating Blow is getting nerfed back up to 90% and 2hb's Overwhelming Might, a far less powerful perk is going from 1% check alllllllllllll the way up to 80%.