MP desirability in teams.

[Towerblock]

I got an interesting idea floating around in my nugget, and it sorta hit me while we were discussing the new perk changes in the MP forums.

Since SL, the overall team desirability for MP's has really slowed down much of the levelling MP's progress. My trox mp, himself has been casting the same nuke since level 110, and hes now rounding the 219 bend. All in all, I would have to say that combined with the Redfire staff and low level min Zhok damage, that I can literally sit in LFT for hours if I chose to not display any proof of team viability.

A good amount of dialogue has been discussed for the offensive nanocasting qualities of the MP, and with the opening of our weapon lines, those that choose to keep a melee or ranged setup will benefit greatly, but what about "caster type/Creation weapon" MP's (I generalize to include shield/1hb/2hb creations).

Trance has become our answer. It solves quite a bit of the problems that some of the caster MP's have had in times of levelling, and that is low team desirability. I suggest a perk somewhere near the middle, with the idea that perhaps MP's can offer a +% nanodamage perk of some sort, so that casters within the team can take advantage of some nice ability to create a burst of damage in our ability to nuke opponents. It would be a nice addition to pretty much any team with casters in it. I realize that healing and nanohealing perks (our SS line) will receive a bit of a boost, but overall, its not enough to really get MP's looked at as a serious addition to teams. I don't particular see MP's as a doctor with pets.

Discuss?

[Kinkst44h]

Back in the day (in SL, pre AI, when I was levelling) MP was extremely desirable. At least good ones were, and mainly for their DD, and their Mez Pet (yes, really!)

IMO MP's should be able to specialize in whichever role they choose (dd, mezzing/debuffing, or healing)

[Mastablasta]

Sounds like good ideas to me. The MP team viability was always in question, really. Being a support profession, the idea of the nano damage boost is pretty good as it would help to further promote the synergy between NT and MP.

[Ciex]

IMHO we have to many - nano cost items/perks etc. and to high nano deltas. Nano delta should be removed from the game and NT/MP nano regain toolset boosted. In current state for a lvl 220 atrox of any prof its close to impossible to run out of nano during inferno missions etc.

I dont want MPs dmg boosted (sorry :P) we already have to many "DD wannabes" that are of support professions and OD true DDs like crats who OD shades etc. MPs dmg output is not bad, people just dont know it but their toolset isnt about DD, its debuffs/nano regain.

[Moonbolt]

tbh i dont think that MPs toolset is the big problem i think its the player bases knowledge about the use of MPs in team that is lacking.
running an inf mish can be done with MP instead of doc for an example.
mortificant heals very well and the -dmg stuff MPs have is quite nice.
they also deal pretty good dmg and tbh ...
the dmg of MPs will get boosted with the nerfs to all other profs that are about to happen atm.
soldiers looking to do less dmg from perks.
enfs are lookin to do less dmg from perks etc.
MPs pet will not get changed DPS as far as we ahve heard now and will get a "boost" in DPS compared to those professions.

[Gatester]

Just introduce the %healing boost to morti that was discussed in MP forums, now you have a desirable MP profession.

[Xtremtech]

tbh i dont think that MPs toolset is the big problem i think its the player bases knowledge about the use of MPs in team that is lacking.

This is true - but only to a certain extent. MPs can be very influential in teams that don't have the typical build of Top Tank + Doc + DD. For example, they're able to make middling tanks work as good ones by reducing incoming damage, providing limited CC and improving available healing - while still providing good levels of DD. And usually, if you build a small team of less than 6 players, then an MP is a superb contributor...

But the reality tends to be that PvM teams tend to form full 6's around strong Tank + Top healer combinations which then doesn't allow the MP to shine. The fact that people tend to go for this kind of team also means that MPs don't get much experience while levelling of using their full support toolset and so, even when smaller/weaker teams are formed, they may just not be very good at taking the best advantage of their tools.

There's a case to be made that the MP needs a clear contribution to standard 6 person Tank + Top Healer teams. Enhancing the damage of the DD team members would be one good way of doing that - so modifying a Trance perk to give a Team +Nanodamage buff would be a reasonable route to go.

X

[DaviasI]

Back in the day (in SL, pre AI, when I was levelling) MP was extremely desirable. At least good ones were, and mainly for their DD, and their Mez Pet (yes, really!)

IMO MP's should be able to specialize in whichever role they choose (dd, mezzing/debuffing, or healing)

Even when AI came out it was not too difficult to get a team (not counting certain instances), its only when LE came around and the later end-game instances that it became difficult to get teams.

I dont want MPs...

Yea that pretty much sums up the teaming situation, post LE. Those that aren't threatened by our viability just want to "waste"a team slot on an MP.

That said I would like a way to improve our mezzing/debuffing capabilities. I've seen some good starts in the perk changes I hope it continues.

[Dancingrage]

Oddly enough, when it comes to viability, I do pretty well for myself.

Most times I have sat at the top of the damage dumper from 100ish to 172, with the odd occasion being when I get OD'd at tl4 by a PE shade, super twinked enfos/advies with inferno weaponry (SSoS) at tl5, or the lucky agent (lucky AS shots). Bela's started falling behind the curve a while ago in terms of healing power, but smart choices and knowing my toolset and what does what means that I can really maximize what I can do.

This doesn't mean I get people beating down my door asking me to team them tho, most outside my org think I'm just a /tab /pet attack /afk, which I think is part of the problem which I quickly disabuse folks of when I start laying down the damage.

That said, I still think that MPs need improvment, and I'm not certain Trance is properly set up to give them that ability. Sure we can always use more nanodamage, but we are primarily a pet prof and our pets haven't been improved upon terribly much since SL came out. Not just the buffs mind you, but the pets themselves.

MPs themselves can reach rather stratospheric levels of nanoskills, I've got a link in my sig to how high they can go, yet all that means jack since the only pets I have access to are the RK meatballs and demons, one IS urn pet, and one SL pet. It is theoretically possible to get the nanoskills to cast all but Rihwen at this point, and I wouldn't put Rihwen as out of reach with some of the improvements coming to the perks we have.

Of course a lot of folks would be utterly horrfiied to see Zhok roaming around in TL5 BS but think nothing of Enfos or Advies running around with similar level gear (SoW/SoC/SSoS) as their power has grown.

In short, we're a pet prof, the caster's answer to the Adventurer, but with pets instead, don't forget that in trying to rebalance the Meta-Physicist. Pets need fixing/boost/stop sucking in pvp.

[Prynxkjui]

In short, we're a pet prof, the caster's answer to the Adventurer, but with pets instead, don't forget that in trying to rebalance the Meta-Physicist. Pets need fixing/boost/stop sucking in pvp.

This sums it up so nicely. At end game raids, basically our mezz pet is completely useless. Our heal pet is (next to) completely useless. Leaving us with 1 DD pet. Engies have 2, Crats have 3.

And in PvP, pets really do need even more work. I do hope that apart from perks, nanos, etc there will also be 1 seperate re-work of pets.

[Phargus]

Maybe a +nanodamage aura from trance and a +heal efficiency aura from soothing spirits? Would be pretty neat....

[Dancingrage]

I think I cooked up those ideas some years ago, and I'd be ok with them but we'll have to wait and see. Since MPs got the -nanodamage and -healing debuffs (sorta, they're already outpaced by a fair bit) it seems only fair to introduce buffs that we could use as a team aura. IIRC I actually suggested this for a team aura used by Support (Shield) MPs.

[Moonbolt]

the only thing i dissagree with in the posts here is 2 things.
MPs and advs realy arnt anything alike.
and mezz pet realy isnt useless.

for example when doin pande w/o calmer its realy nice to have that mezz pet on the portal mobs to make them basically never get a hit off.

[Klod9002]

for example when doin pande w/o calmer its realy nice to have that mezz pet on the portal mobs to make them basically never get a hit off.

LOL

Yeah, it's nice. It could be made much nicer though. Mez pet aside, I'm in for % nano damage and % heal auras (not both of them at once).

[Towerblock]

I thought about auras, but I remember somewhere about certain auras with bugtriggers that can actually affect getting flagged in pvp. A perk doesn't seem to have the same triggers.

[Rurounin]

Maybe a +nanodamage aura from trance and a +heal efficiency aura from soothing spirits? Would be pretty neat....

great idea!

[Dancingrage]

Hm, perhaps this idea bears re-examination then. I think I'll have to go dig up my old posts and look at them, if I get time, I'll link 'em here if folks are interested to see what my initial ideas re: +healing and +nanodamage auras looked like.

[DaviasI]

End game MP's are called dieties, so why doesn't the fact that we are just hanging around others make them better due to our holy/unholy presence?

Perhaps an aura line that either buffs our team or debuffs our enemies and make them mutually exclusive so we can specialize based on what is needed at the time.

So you can't do: + healing and - enemy inits. Its either all team positive or all enemy negative.

[Dancingrage]

Found the thread with the info needed, it's unsurprisingly one of my MP idea threads, predated Esa and Titaniush, IIRC.

Noes! Another Rage Idea Thread! has the basic ideas in the first post. I'd had them locked to Deck7 weaponry, aka Support staves, but there's absolutely nothing wrong in my opinion with unlocking them for all MPs.

My question about this idea is this: Is nano healing affected by +healing?

[Prynxkjui]

Those auras look interesting but they seem to be very close to what keepers and crats already have. I'd love to have something as an MP that's exclusive to MP's.

About the +heal aura. I have a 220 doc with +40something ish heal efficiency. He could have more if I wanted to. Getting more heal efficiency from teaming a MP would never be anything I'd consider as doc because it's utterly useless. If all else fails, there's always iCH. And heal perks. And more heal perks.
Adv's and MA's may like this. But then again for end-game content I doubt that people will consider not getting a doc but instead an Adv + MP for heals. Not if that +heal aura isn't like +500% heal efficiency anyway.


The +nano damage aura is kinda interesting too. But who would profit from this? NT's, Crat's, MP's. Now NT's are not wanted for their PvM DD. MP's aren't either. For Crat's it would only improve their nukes which make up but a portion of their overall DD. DoT's aren't affected by +nano damage either. I personally don't see how this aura would make anyone cry out loud at night: Oh my god, we need an MP in our team to do this!


Though, over all, MP's have always been someone who can help their team be more efficient by buffing their nanoskills so the team can cast better nanos. As this notion is more and more fading at 220, because even those Atrox Enfo's can self their top DB nanos without using any perks or equip adding to nanoskills, maybe we should also get a new nano line that buffs something useful at end game. Whatever that could be.