Power Down

[Berinda]

Here's my solution.

Take what is currently the "ranged energy" line, and remove the ranged energy buffs for it. Keep the reqs to launch the perks identical to how they are now. Still have them check RE to land, as most soldiers are setup for that anyway. Make it a soldier only line, call it Shock Trooper or something snazzy. Then make the profession group RE mastery line a copy paste of the shotgun mastery line, with all the buffs and stuff changed to RE.

[Questra]

Regardless, Soldiers alpha ability needs to be reduced if survival is being reduced.

It's a very small selection of people having their "alpha ability" reduced. Mainly solds and agents. I see that you will still be able to use AS after this patch.

i dont see other profs loose full perk line on damage perks.
many profs get boost on perk damage.

If what you said was true Gate, why do we see so many profs that already have nukes or 11s capping specials getting new or easier to land perks like this:

Head Shot - Shotgun Skill 2000: Damage: -3392..-7141

Supernova - Level 220: Damage: -4500..-10000

Combust - Level 220: Damage: -3301..-7336

Embrace (now with 75% NR check) - Embrace 10: Damage: -11238..-12361

With no AAD on NR checks those perks, those perks are going to be landing on most people (except enfos, what a coincidence that you haven't complained about them)

We're seeing some very large perk DD being brought into play now, wielded by combat and support professions alike. The disctinction between the two is fading now and ALL profs will be capable of large PvP DD soon.

Soldiers are unique in that we will apparently be the only prof to lose the majority of our perk DD, and soldiers will have among the lowest (if not the lowest) perk DD. Yet I see no indication that FA is going to become any more reliable. I only see a large nerf to AI perks, which is going to cut our damage back even further.

Oh and Onehander is fine for pvp, please do not say a wep even engie or crats have been using decently in tl7 pvp would not work for soldiers.

I'll ask you again. Are you saying that soldiers have to leave assault rifle behind? Do you except AR soldiers to have 10 perks wasted?

Alpha ability ? did you hear of weapon swap nerf ? please rephrase that statement as it is very far from truth, our alpha ability will be Burst and FA which will miss on evade twinked chars.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Losing the AS swap is all the alpha nerf soldiers need. The are profs with far more reliable 11s capping specials who also have big perk DD (and debuffing abilities and heals to boot) so I'd be more concerned about their alpha ability.

I find it hard to believe that you actually expect soldiers to use 30 perks and dump 10 into something useless.

[Gatester]

No point in quoting people, ill just make some general statements.

Enforcers lost the 1he/1hb combo, a much more effecient combo than AR+RE perks, but I actually supported this as I can see what the future of AO will be. All profs are losing these dual perking advantages.

You cannot AS and SA, so how would my enforcer still hotswap for AS? 2hb and 2he enfs also have no SA and their damage perks are getting nerfed, so you have no argument. AS is also supposed to be getting a def check, how many of those profs you are complaining about getting DD perks do you think could actually land AS with this sort of nerf?

My enforcer is PVM, I haven't PVP'd actively in 6 months so I could care less about how well you can slaughter an enforcer. I am also not going to list all 32 of my toons, so do not assume you know what I do and do not play.

Soldier tanking ability? Great.
Soldier pvm damage? Still top 5 compared to the other tanking prof being in the bottom 5...(glad I have a shade now lol)
Soldier versatility and end game variation? After these changes it will go from 2 setups to 6 or more at least.
Soldier pvp offensive strength? Great, and hopefully soon balanced with many variations.

Honestly what is there to complain about? You will not need to unload AS, FA, Burst and roll your face across the numpad for 8 DD perks to kill people anymore. Is that not a good thing?

[sultryvoltron]

No point in quoting people, ill just make some general statements.

Enforcers lost the 1he/1hb combo, a much more effecient combo than AR+RE perks, but I actually supported this as I can see what the future of AO will be. All profs are losing these dual perking advantages.

You cannot AS and SA, so how would my enforcer still hotswap for AS? 2hb and 2he enfs also have no SA and their damage perks are getting nerfed, so you have no argument. AS is also supposed to be getting a def check, how many of those profs you are complaining about getting DD perks do you think could actually land AS with this sort of nerf?

Honestly what is there to complain about? You will not need to unload AS, FA, Burst and roll your face across the numpad for 8 DD perks to kill people anymore. Is that not a good thing?

Enfs are still using all perks from both lines quite effectively. The SA/AS nerf will only effect those Enfos that used both. For those who have a strong enough alpha without AS, their alpha remains unchanged while the Soldier/Agent alpha is getting nerfed drastically. AS needs nerfed. People don't need a capping perk to make up for the loss of a capping special because the status quo remains the same.

What is there to complain about? AR perks suck. RE perks were a bandaid fix.

Solution? Fix the AR perks.

[Eseb]

Solution? Fix the AR perks.

I'd say the solution is to change how burst and FA work to make them more reliable, like giving the first one or two bullets a low check and the ones after higher ones, like 80%, 90%, 100%, 110% and so on to keep us from capping on low HP evaders while still giving us a chance of doing some actual dmg. If we got this nobody would care about what perks we've got :P

Soldier pvp offensive strength? Great, and hopefully soon balanced with many variations.

How is it great when, in a fully offensive setup, I have no and I mean absolutely no chance of killing any good evade prof. Fixers, MAs, shades, they all need an EC3 to kill and I mean NEED. After the AS changes we won't have a chance in hell of killing those profs. There are also evade ranged advs which barely deserve a mention. They're already impossible to kill as a sold, even in an AR whoring setup. Dodge agents and docs need both our RE perks and an AS hotswap to bring down, and even then it's very hard.
After all these changes all that'll happen is that we'll lose more dodge debuffing ability and more damage, making us pretty much useless against anything other than crappy enfos.

[Hacre]

Oh my dear holy christ.

The amount of sheer moronic babbling in this thread is mind blowing.

First, my credentials. Everyone knows I have no secretly harboured love for soldiers. I hate them. I hate that they were the primary reason that my Keeper got mothballed (at least what they could do to my Keeper, ultimately that happening was FC's fault). My NT is built primarily for dropping soldiers with relative ease and every dead Soldier brings me sheer joy in the 100% effectiveness of my build.

HOWEVER. That said. Soldiers don't need nerfing, certainly not to this degree. Pre LE Soldiers were largely a laughing stock even if they ran around with the big hairdryer. Finally in LE they got exactly what they needed, AR up the ying yang and FINALLY usable assault rifles and workable perks, perks that they actually had to spend -extra- IP on to use (I'm looking at you, RE perks).

I will be one sad Panda if Soldiers become a laughable fight for me (the good ones will still make me sweat and I enjoy it) because they get reduced to using a multi wield hybrid of swapping sadness just to get some usable perks.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Unless Burst and FA are going to suddenly work like some bullet packing Triple and Quadruple then these silly lockouts need to go, or they need decent AND COMPARABLE Assault Rifle based perks and STAT.

Now if a known and renowned Soldier hater can see this for the pure bulls**t that it is then the rest of the fools pointing and laughing should be able to see it too, otherwise they've got absolutely no place in this balance forum whatsoever and I'll be referring you to Ana's office.

Now, carry on, and let's see if we can collectively stop this stupid asinine nerfage before it starts. If we could all get behind Traders the first time Easy Shot got smashed with a nerfbat then we can damn well make sure a large majority of the PvPing PAYING playerbase doesn't get the shaft.

That is all.

[Escritores]

No point in quoting people, ill just make some general statements.

Enforcers lost the 1he/1hb combo, a much more effecient combo than AR+RE perks, but I actually supported this as I can see what the future of AO will be. All profs are losing these dual perking advantages.

You cannot AS and SA, so how would my enforcer still hotswap for AS? 2hb and 2he enfs also have no SA and their damage perks are getting nerfed, so you have no argument. AS is also supposed to be getting a def check, how many of those profs you are complaining about getting DD perks do you think could actually land AS with this sort of nerf?

My enforcer is PVM, I haven't PVP'd actively in 6 months so I could care less about how well you can slaughter an enforcer. I am also not going to list all 32 of my toons, so do not assume you know what I do and do not play.

Soldier tanking ability? Great.
Soldier pvm damage? Still top 5 compared to the other tanking prof being in the bottom 5...(glad I have a shade now lol)
Soldier versatility and end game variation? After these changes it will go from 2 setups to 6 or more at least.
Soldier pvp offensive strength? Great, and hopefully soon balanced with many variations.

Honestly what is there to complain about? You will not need to unload AS, FA, Burst and roll your face across the numpad for 8 DD perks to kill people anymore. Is that not a good thing?

Seriously man... Please oh please read what Hacre wrote above... Now your basing your whole nerfage speech on soldiers not having to press as many hotbar keys? You seriously got to be kidding, like having to press less hotbar keys is something good and well worth loosing our biggest DD perks over...

[Questra]

Yeah, Hacre, Eseb, Escri, and Sultry all make good points. Thank you gentlemen kindly.

To make AR soldiers waste 10 perks in nothing is to push them into a weapon choice rather than enable them to make choices. Gate still won't admit that he's basically advocating that, he's just being slippery and eluding that "soldiers can still use a onehander!"

My guess is that Funcom are intending to do some things with AR perks and make a new perkline that doesn't contribute to a soldier's offense or damage, rather one which gives something defensive.

[Gatester]

Enfs are still using all perks from both lines quite effectively. The SA/AS nerf will only effect those Enfos that used both. For those who have a strong enough alpha without AS, their alpha remains unchanged while the Soldier/Agent alpha is getting nerfed drastically. AS needs nerfed. People don't need a capping perk to make up for the loss of a capping special because the status quo remains the same.

1) 1he and 1hb perk actions share the same lockout...for several months now I think.
2) Read the enforcer perks, %def checks are being bumped up, 2he perk damage and alpha ability is reduced heavily, and 2hb is hardly as viable for pvp as 2he. You might want to relook at agent perks as well.
3) AS was a 100% land, these new perks can be resisted, and a 60 second lockout vs 11sec lockout instant use special is a big difference.

I'd say the solution is to change how burst and FA work to make them more reliable, like giving the first one or two bullets a low check and the ones after higher ones, like 80%, 90%, 100%, 110% and so on to keep us from capping on low HP evaders while still giving us a chance of doing some actual dmg. If we got this nobody would care about what perks we've got :P

You mean something like this? Yeah, all but one soldier tore into me when I suggested that. That is the treatment I get for trying to help a profession I apparently loathe so much on my pvm enforcer.

@Hacre, I doubt soldiers will be so easy for you if your LE nukes get nerfed. Nano nerfing PDF will be coming so get ready to start your thread.

Yeah, Hacre, Eseb, Escri, and Sultry all make good points. Thank you gentlemen kindly.

To make AR soldiers waste 10 perks in nothing is to push them into a weapon choice rather than enable them to make choices. Gate still won't admit that he's basically advocating that, he's just being slippery and eluding that "soldiers can still use a onehander!"

My guess is that Funcom are intending to do some things with AR perks and make a new perkline that doesn't contribute to a soldier's offense or damage, rather one which gives something defensive.

To be honest I am trying to find the "nerf" here.
You can still perk RE10 and you can still hotswap an RE wep or simply keep EC3 equipped.
The perk attacks all have 45 second recharges now, compared to 80, 60, and 50 seconds.
The perk attacks also no longer require energize running, which means you can use the perks more than once every 2 minutes.
Power Volley Gains a 3 second stun chance.
Power Blast and Power Combo gain 15m more attack range.

The only problem here is that people will be troubled with having to hotswap, which you were doing anyways to alpha. So asside from the loss of AS, it looks like the RE line not only recieved a boost, but so did soldiers. Now, can someone please tell me what the problem is exactly?

[sultryvoltron]

1) 1he and 1hb perk actions share the same lockout...for several months now I think.
2) Read the enforcer perks, %def checks are being bumped up, 2he perk damage and alpha ability is reduced heavily, and 2hb is hardly as viable for pvp as 2he. You might want to relook at agent perks as well.
3) AS was a 100% land, these new perks can be resisted, and a 60 second lockout vs 11sec lockout instant use special is a big difference.

. . .

The only problem here is that people will be troubled with having to hotswap, which you were doing anyways to alpha. So asside from the loss of AS, it looks like the RE line not only recieved a boost, but so did soldiers. Now, can someone please tell me what the problem is exactly?

1) I was hit the other day from an Enf with perks from both lines. They know something that we don't I guess.

2) Also, % def checks are being moved up to where they should be. 50% check was retarded. 1% check was retarded. 80-90% is perfect for an Enfo. 2HE perk damage had it's time as cream of the crop. It looks to me now like most of the lines will share similar damage, comparing recharges. Oh, and do you mean those perks that aren't going to land on anyone without a full AR setup? Or the ones with 3 and 6 minute lockouts? Yeah, I'm pretty impressed.

3) AS was a 100% land, but not 100% cap, special for most professions. To compensate the loss of a tool they never should have been using in the first place, FC sees fit to give them 100% capping perks, but not necessarily 100% land. As far as I can tell, they will be probably 80%+ land. Purely looking over damage logs of fights I've had with Docs/Engis/Crats using AS, that's a boost if you ask me, especially against low-mid NR and low-mid evade profs.


Also, it's fairly clear to me what the problem is. If you have no reliable perk specials for AR, then people might as well not even use it. You would be better off sticking with RE (or some dual wield hybrid combo) 100% of the time. If soldiers are to be expected to swap weapons, shoot off perks, swap back weapons, shoot off specials, then it does not follow any notion of balance. No other profession is required to do so. As far as I'm concerned, boost the AR perks. That gives soldiers the option of having good perks + specials when they need AR, and good perks + specials when they need RE. Simple.

[NoGoal]

Soldiers should get a new perk line that's for sure. But not without changing FA mechanics. It does too much damage for its capped recharge.

[Hacre]

@Hacre, I doubt soldiers will be so easy for you if your LE nukes get nerfed. Nano nerfing PDF will be coming so get ready to start your thread.

That's fine and my thread will be created if necessary but I'm not going to stand around advocating Soldiers get smashed with a massive nerfbat to their main weapon line that for -years- went neglected just in case my toolset gets the shaft as well and I can't kill them anymore.

[Kinkst44h]

Or they could just boost general perks.

I've had 10 points in a general line on my agent for a good, uh.. 3-4 years now? When did I hit 220? I dont even remember.

I think the general lines could use some love, they should be an attractive option for people to try out/use/situational use etc for something more than merely twinking.

[Anarrina]

Accusing each other of whining, crying, and other hyperbolic expressions is really not considered a constructive argument. I'd really like it if everyone took a deep breath and took another shot at it. Thanks.

[Questra]

Gate, no soldier can swap to an EC3 to use those new PU perks. To stand still or leave your target un-qed while you execute 23s of swaps, losing at least 2 bursts, 1 FA, and about 11 regular hits is losing far more damage than the PU perks themselves.

Also, to claim that we can "just use the EC3" brings you no closer to a valid argument, because if we reset AR perks and exlusively use an EC3, we're going to have 8 wasted perks instead of 10.

Would you want to have to put 10 perks in a general line? Would you give up a perkline on your enf and max Enhance DNA?

AO should be about choice. If soldiers don't have enough perklines to use all 40 perks, it's no longer about choice. It's about settling for the least useless option and no other profession has ever had to do that.

[Pafpuf]

It's about settling for the least useless option and no other profession has ever had to do that.

Eheh guess again. And no you don't need more damage when heals are getting nerfed. Pointless thread.

You say AO should be about choice whereas you really want everything for yourself. I think there's classes out there who should have a choice not to get faceroll alphakilled. You'll just have to live with not instakilling everything

[IHaveHugeNick]

Plenty of us use general perklines because there isn't enough good choice amongst profession perks: your journey from AMSFaceroll online to Anarchy Online has begun.

[Questra]

Nick and Paf, while you aren't really making any logical points with your rather hostile remarks, I'll repond fairly by pointing out that there are profs with 11s capping specials and good defenses who still have large DD perks.

Still, many soldiers are willing to lose PU perks if we get a non-offensive perkline to compensate for it.

220 sold in my org: ima be forced to perk mountaineer + MA master
220 sold in my org: and take off gun for 3k heal
220 sold in my org: and maybe use a low ql flower
220 sold in my org: lol and ill IP dimach/brawl while im at it

But we're not doing that.

Oh, and forum mods... if you're going to delete Pafpuf's post, at least let me know so I can edit my reply which reponds to it! Otherwise it looks like I'm responding to thin air :P

[NixBood]

My ranged energy soldier is going to QQ pretty hard if any of this leads to the RE perks being worse off than they started

[Pafpuf]

Nick and Paf, while you aren't really making any logical points with your rather hostile remarks, I'll repond fairly by pointing out that there are profs with 11s capping specials and good defenses who still have large DD perks.

Care to point out these profs ? You said you're pointing out but you didn't point anything out really. Don't talk about logic when you're trolling your own thread