Power Down

[Mastablasta]

I think we're done here.

Soldier damage is currently good in PvP but it's similar to other DD profs, many of whom are getting huge perk DD added to their toolset according to those PDFs.

Yet we seem to be loosing the only substantial perk DD we had. We wouldn't mind if our AR perkline actually had DD, and if we were given a new perkline not related to offense.

Do you think it's fair that only one out of 14 profs should have to blow 25% of their perks in a general line because there's no other choice?

Oh, but we aren't, really. If you want to argue that soldiers lose damage from it, then NTs do as well, and always did. Way more than anyone else for that matter. If you could for just a moment let your thoughts stray from the triple noobs, you would probably understand why.

Soldiers still sit around with loads of survivability, perhaps soldiers are even the toughest of all the professions to kill in pvm, or pvp for that matter. It's only reasonable that they're not also the best damage dealer and the best alpha death dealer, but rather upper end of mediocre at those two.

[Hacre]

Oh, for the record, I don't understand why the AR perks suck in comparison to the other weapon perks either. I know SMG solds have a bit less AR than AR soldiers but with the Envy over the Jobe pistol the offensive gap became considerably smaller.

I'd suggest getting on IRC and asking for clarification.

Questra, I'm trying to be respectful, please don't edit quotes of me to put words in my mouth.

You should know from the sheer weight of whining about Soldiers what it's like to have a certain air of defensiveness when it comes to people making incredibly broad statements about their chosen PvP prof. Broad statements that in these forums can be damaging.

[Questra]

Oh, for the record, I don't understand why the AR perks suck in comparison to the other weapon perks either. I know SMG solds have a bit less AR than AR soldiers but with the Envy over the Jobe pistol the offensive gap became considerably smaller.

I'd suggest getting on IRC and asking for clarification.

Questra, I'm trying to be respectful, please don't edit quotes of me to put words in my mouth.

You should know from the sheer weight of whining about Soldiers what it's like to have a certain air of defensiveness when it comes to people making incredibly broad statements about their chosen PvP prof. Broad statements that in these forums can be damaging.

I know you're not mate, it's just Mastablasta seeminly asking for nerfs to multiple profs who just happen to not be NTs, when he should probably pay more attention to his own prof. I'm not calling for any NT nerf, I'm fine with NTs. I'm just defending my own view of balance.

SMG soldiers not using AS, so using a AAO hud3, will have on average 400 less AR than AR soldiers.

They have the possibility for extreme PvM damage, and in PvP they have much better perk DD from the SMG perkline. The problem with AR perks is that you get so used to hitting people in PvP with three figure damage perks that you rely on Power Up to make up for hitting someone for 200 or 600 with other perks.

If FC intend to make SMG soldiers relatively better in PvP after the ranged specials nerf, and that's why they're nerfing PU, they're making SMG solds better relative to AR solds by nerfing AR solds.

People complained about soldiers when they were getting used to Assault Rifles actually being fearsome weapons, a concept that took awhile to get used to since AR soldiers had trouble FAing a barn door before LE.

Also, green soldiers were running around with a weapon that could do damage, and that took people by surprise. I wouldn't have cared much if the d-shark was given a high FA cycle or level locked to 219, but that's where most of the soldier whines came from.

Any profession that is virtually defensless 33% of the time but well defended for 66% of it requires patience to kill. Unless you're a trader, NT, or engie. But lately I haven't seen many whines about soldiers, now that people are used to the d-shark already and that is evident in the fact that the vast majority of people are supporting soldiers in this thread and others, and why Gate's enf/sold thread has quite a few people thinking that enfs need a nerf, but few who thinks solds do.

What we're saying in this thread is this: if we're losing Power Up, we're gonna need somewhere to put 10 perks. And it's not going to be NCU extensions.

[Mastablasta]

I know you're not mate, it's just Mastablasta seeminly asking for nerfs to multiple profs who just happen to not be NTs, when he should probably pay more attention to his own prof. I'm not calling for any NT nerf, I'm fine with NTs. I'm just defending my own view of balance.

SMG soldiers not using AS, so using a AAO hud3, will have on average 400 less AR than AR soldiers.

They have the possibility for extreme PvM damage, and in PvP they have much better perk DD from the SMG perkline. The problem with AR perks is that you get so used to hitting people in PvP with three figure damage perks that you rely on Power Up to make up for hitting someone for 200 or 600 with other perks.

If FC intend to make SMG soldiers relatively better in PvP after the ranged specials nerf, and that's why they're nerfing PU, they're making SMG solds better relative to AR solds by nerfing AR solds.

People complained about soldiers when they were getting used to Assault Rifles actually being fearsome weapons, a concept that took awhile to get used to since AR soldiers had trouble FAing a barn door before LE.

Also, green soldiers were running around with a weapon that could do damage, and that took people by surprise. I wouldn't have cared much if the d-shark was given a high FA cycle or level locked to 219, but that's where most of the soldier whines came from.

Any profession that is virtually defensless 33% of the time but well defended for 66% of it requires patience to kill. Unless you're a trader, NT, or engie. But lately I haven't seen many whines about soldiers, now that people are used to the d-shark already and that is evident in the fact that the vast majority of people are supporting soldiers in this thread and others, and why Gate's enf/sold thread has quite a few people thinking that enfs need a nerf, but few who thinks solds do.

What we're saying in this thread is this: if we're losing Power Up, we're gonna need somewhere to put 10 perks. And it's not going to be NCU extensions.

I called for lots of nerfs to NTs. Did they ever get them? No. They just got more retarded things. But then, I don't want people who don't understand what it takes to play NT to get them.

It's also cute how you want to put that thing in your sig Play an NT sometime, maybe it'll open your eyes. And yes, for the record I do also play a soldier. Everyone plays a soldier, not everyone plays NT... why's that, I wonder...

[Questra]

Sorry, Masta, but if you think NTs lose more damage from 30% caps than anyone else (even soldiers and agents?) then you either:

1) only use IU on level 175 fixers
2) only PvP once every 30mins when NBS is up
3) are claiming that both nukes for every Double do much more than 30% of the average person's HP

I know for a fact that none of those 3 suppositions are true.

You're a lot smarter than trying to claim that.

[Kinkst44h]

Soldier damage is currently good in PvP but it's similar to other DD profs, many of whom are getting huge perk DD added to their toolset according to those PDFs.

Who?

[Eseb]

Who?

There's a new perk on the shotty line that has a 75% duck check and does 3392-7141 dmg.
Crats are getting a 1696-3768 perk and a 2342-5205 one with stupid checks alongside a new stun perk.
Nade users are getting a new 3042-6403 perk.
MPs are getting a 3514-5808 perk that doesn't seem to be able to miss and a 3423-7607 one that checks nanoskills vs NR.
Traders are getting a new 3811-5247 perk.

That's about all really, but most of those perks are for perklines that lacked any sort of a perk action at the 9th and 10th perk.



And yeah the state of our perks post-"balancing" is very worrying. We lose one of our dodge debuffing perks which gets turned into a useless DoT, the dration of the other dodge debuff is halved and we lose our single best dmg perks which come from Power Up which we already only had ~3100 AR with anyway. Combine this with our loss of the ability to hotswap to AS and we really have no way of killing docs and agents, no matter what the "heal nerf" is. Really, anything that has decent evades and/or has heals will be unkillable.



And Questra and Masta, must you kill every sold thread with your arguments? :P

[randomalpha]

can we ask for SMG buff while we are at it , before we find FC giving us WS nano ?
ty

[Gatester]

Was avoiding this thread because it was typical Soldier whine, but ffs people.

Soldiers are getting full access to shotgun line, and that new damage perk.
Soldiers can duel wield any set of shotgun/RE/SMG and have 2 full lines of perk damage+AS or FA depending on which special you choose to focus on.
Soldiers who dual-wield are going to be better DD than single-wield at the cost of more IP, as it should be.

What should happen next is RE perks, SMG perks, and Shotgun perks lock each other out so Soldier offense starts belancing closer towards Enforcers. You can still hotswap Assault rifle and one of the other lines if you want, but that will be a sacrifice you can share with the rest of AO finally.

As an incredibly strong tanking profession, a profession who is valued even when not tanking or doing any damage at all thanks to the buffs you provide, and a prof whose damage, attack rating, and defense is near the top in pvm and the top of pvp, a little reduction along with everyone else will not kill you.

[randomalpha]

Was avoiding this thread because it was typical Soldier whine, but ffs people.

Soldiers are getting full access to shotgun line, and that new damage perk.
Soldiers can duel wield any set of shotgun/RE/SMG and have 2 full lines of perk damage+AS or FA depending on which special you choose to focus on.
Soldiers who dual-wield are going to be better DD than single-wield at the cost of more IP, as it should be.

What should happen next is RE perks, SMG perks, and Shotgun perks lock each other out so Soldier offense starts belancing closer towards Enforcers. You can still hotswap Assault rifle and one of the other lines if you want, but that will be a sacrifice you can share with the rest of AO finally.

As an incredibly strong tanking profession, a profession who is valued even when not tanking or doing any damage at all thanks to the buffs you provide, and a prof whose damage, attack rating, and defense is near the top in pvm and the top of pvp, a little reduction along with everyone else will not kill you.

man u nothing about solja we have the highest AR in the game but we don't have good DD perk to make use of it and the DD perks we have we losing them soon , assuming solja going for those dual setup we losing pretty much AR there we will be like any other prof our AR ONLY GR8 WHEN WE USE ASSAULT RIFLE and no single DD perk that can use that AR kay ?

our defense need u to sit for 1:20 min then stand and alpha , almost all profs in AO can do that away from those 4 who can screw us in 1st 5s w/e we do

also our gr8 11s FA u guys whining about is the most special able to miss and hit for nothing on any evaders and or any toon twinked abit deff/dodge so itis not that gr8

finaly as u whiners know noting about how our offense/defense work we will be very thankful to u if u just read our discussion quietly w/o useless whining posts and only when u roll solja pvm,pvp with it give us ur gr8 opinion and hopefull if itis still negative after that keep it for ur self thnx !

[Eseb]

Soldiers are getting full access to shotgun line, and that new damage perk.

Name ONE decent shotgun whose dmg could even compare to an AoX.

Soldiers can duel wield any set of shotgun/RE/SMG and have 2 full lines of perk damage+AS or FA depending on which special you choose to focus on.

No good shotgun that can be dual wielded. For the love of god don't even thing about suggesting the craphander. RE and SMG would have much lower attack ratings than AR, so even though you have perks, you can't land them on anything but low dodge profs, and FA would be even more of a pain to land than it is now.

Soldiers who dual-wield are going to be better DD than single-wield at the cost of more IP, as it should be.

Harder to land anything = better?

[Escritores]

Soldiers are getting full access to shotgun line, and that new damage perk.
Soldiers can duel wield any set of shotgun/RE/SMG and have 2 full lines of perk damage+AS or FA depending on which special you choose to focus on.
Soldiers who dual-wield are going to be better DD than single-wield at the cost of more IP, as it should be.

So your apparent obsession with soldiers using shotguns comes from where? Are we meant to dual wield? No... Do some do it for max dmg? Yes... In short terms Soldier who dual wield allready have better DD... So your points are completely out there and I tend a bit to assume your kidding...

What should happen next is RE perks, SMG perks, and Shotgun perks lock each other out so Soldier offense starts belancing closer towards Enforcers. You can still hotswap Assault rifle and one of the other lines if you want, but that will be a sacrifice you can share with the rest of AO finally.

Ah so now your saying enforcers swap weapons for dmg perks... And why oh why should we in anyway have similar offence to enfos, where is that stated besides by you? Here your clearly showing what you claim soldiers are doing in this thread i.e a whining enfo...

As an incredibly strong tanking profession, a profession who is valued even when not tanking or doing any damage at all thanks to the buffs you provide, and a prof whose damage, attack rating, and defense is near the top in pvm and the top of pvp, a little reduction along with everyone else will not kill you.

Yes a soldier with 0 dmg is extremely awesome to have in a team... Everyone else is not getting a reduction in dmg...

[Questra]

Soldiers are getting full access to shotgun line, and that new damage perk.

So you're saying that Assault Rifle soldiers should run around with only 30 perks trained?

Would you find it fair if the only perk choices your enfo had was training both 2HB AND 2HE perks, but you could only utilise one or the other, so 10 perks at any given time were wasted?

I thought not. That's what soldiers will be experiencing. Unless you're saying that all soldiers have to dual wield so as not to waste 25% of our 40 SL perks?

[Questra]

Let me ask once again. Mastablasta and Gatester, who seem to be the only two haters out of the majority of fair and objective people, do you think it's fair that a soldier should have to dump 10 perks into a general perkline?

Or should we get an alternative perkline so we're not wasting 10 perks on perk actions that we won't be able to use?

Let's put your thoughts about whether or not soldiers should be allowed to have any DD perks in PvP aside for the moment (even though docs, traders, MPs, and NTs will actually have more perk DD than soldiers if we lose Power Up... in fact, every profession except Rifle crats will have more perk DD than soldiers). Just ignore your damage and offensive bias with regards soldiers for the moment.

Let me say this once again. If we have to lose PU, then we'll need a new perkline. So far all the soldiers are suggesting something with resistance to debuffs. Many "support" profs will now be able to perk lots of people due to the changes in NR checks, so soldiers would like the option to have some of that debuff resistance/removal love. Fair trade, you could say.

Let me make this clear. We will not run around with maxed NCU extensions or Cartographer.

[JustinSane4]

I know next to nothing about soldier balance, but in general terms, I think every profession should have something clearly useful to do with their perk points.

[Moonbolt]

why not combine ur threads Questra and ask for a perkline that reduces AMS NSD time.

[Gatester]

I swear my threads are getting deleted left and right. Oh well, if it tones down my snappiness thats fine

Regardless, Soldiers alpha ability needs to be reduced if survival is being reduced. Your PVM damage without RE perkline is also quite fine (30% better than most profs at least). If you want to maintain a shades level of pvp damage, then you would have to lose some of your defense, and I doubt any soldier would want that.

Oh and Onehander is fine for pvp, please do not say a wep even engie or crats have been using decently in tl7 pvp would not work for soldiers.

[Canibaal]

I swear my threads are getting deleted left and right. Oh well, if it tones down my snappiness thats fine

Regardless, Soldiers alpha ability needs to be reduced if survival is being reduced. Your PVM damage without RE perkline is also quite fine (30% better than most profs at least). If you want to maintain a shades level of pvp damage, then you would have to lose some of your defense, and I doubt any soldier would want that.

Oh and Onehander is fine for pvp, please do not say a wep even engie or crats have been using decently in tl7 pvp would not work for soldiers.

i suppose u got pwned by lot of soljas on daily basis and u wanna make senseless comments in all threads to make soljas useless in every way?

First, u guys say that make AS agent only and now u justify removing 10 perks from solja's toolset and suggest to use Onehander? Make up your mind ffs. Quit beating around the bush and admit that U su*k as a Enf!

[Perskules]

i dont see other profs loose full perk line on damage perks.
many profs get boost on perk damage.
its not enought take AS/FA combo off? im fine if FA/AS combo stay even if we loose PU
and still havent seen any heal/defence nerfs incoming

[DaChains]

Regardless, Soldiers alpha ability needs to be reduced if survival is being reduced. Your PVM damage without RE perkline is also quite fine (30% better than most profs at least). If you want to maintain a shades level of pvp damage, then you would have to lose some of your defense, and I doubt any soldier would want that.

Alpha ability ? did you hear of weapon swap nerf ? please rephrase that statement as it is very far from truth, our alpha ability will be Burst and FA which will miss on evade twinked chars.