Power Down

[Escritores]

Noticed this too the change seems quite retarded...

[Questra]

They also have a 3 minute and 6 minute recharge, respectively.

That's true, but Energise has a 2min recharge time and if your target manages to rootgraft you or kite out of range for mere seconds, you loose the window and are physically unable to execute PU perks... just spawn annoying yellow messages that say "Must have recently affected by energise running!". Very annoying.

We also have something like 400 or 500 less AR with PU perks than with AR perks, so our AR with them is similar to most combat profs AR with their primary weapons when they're in full defensive setups. The reason we put up with that and relied so much on PU is that our primary weapon perks blow.

If we had decent DD assault rifle perks (instead of crap that does about as much damage as the IS rings), we wouldn't care so much about completely losing PU.

[sultryvoltron]

I don't know if it's a good or bad change. Probably bad. It seems like it worked fine as is though, I'll agree with that.


On a side note:

We also have something like 400 or 500 less AR with PU perks than with AR perks, so our AR with them is similar to most combat profs AR with their primary weapons when they're in full defensive setups.

I just quoted this part because I think it's funny. It's also a good comparison, since Agents and Soldiers are the only pure artillery professions, to how laughably low Agent AR is. Bullseye barely makes up for the difference here.

[Jjin]

This would be a huge nerf to assault rifle soldiers, and many of the profs that can now perk this to 10 may want it for pvm dd purposes while wielding a non-RE weapon. I agree with the posters saying this should not have a weapon requirement.

[Questra]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Questra View Post
We also have something like 400 or 500 less AR with PU perks than with AR perks, so our AR with them is similar to most combat profs AR with their primary weapons when they're in full defensive setups.

Yeah, agents in defensive setups have low AR relative to soldiers, mainly because soldiers are almost exclusively in full offensive setups :P

Offensive setup - defensive setup, obviously a big difference. We're talking hundreds of AR difference.

A sold in a full def setup is still perkable to most people and has just as crappy AR as an agent in a def setup. It's only because we can't benefit from all those AAD alb items that we focus solely on attack rating.

And because our 11s special isn't nearly as dependable as AS and relies very heavily on attack rating. Can you blame us for obsessing about our AR?

Bullseye doesn't make up for all of the difference between offensive setup soldiers and defensive setup agents, but given the huge setup differences, shouldn't there be a difference there anyway? It's still a very nice nano and I can see soldiers being pure killing machines if they had access to it.

I've only assessed how these perk changes will affect my tl5 agent, and haven't checked much at tl7 for you guys. Hopefully you aren't getting shafted too.

[mr_road]

We also have something like 400 or 500 less AR with PU perks than with AR perks, so our AR with them is similar to most combat profs AR with their primary weapons when they're in full defensive setups. The reason we put up with that and relied so much on PU is that our primary weapon perks blow.

combat profs have 3.2k AR in full def setups ?

[sultryvoltron]

Yeah, agents in defensive setups have low AR relative to soldiers, mainly because soldiers are almost exclusively in full offensive setups :P

Offensive setup - defensive setup, obviously a big difference. We're talking hundreds of AR difference.

A sold in a full def setup is still perkable to most people and has just as crappy AR as an agent in a def setup. It's only because we can't benefit from all those AAD alb items that we focus solely on attack rating.

And because our 11s special isn't nearly as dependable as AS and relies very heavily on attack rating. Can you blame us for obsessing about our AR?

Bullseye doesn't make up for all of the difference between offensive setup soldiers and defensive setup agents, but given the huge setup differences, shouldn't there be a difference there anyway? It's still a very nice nano and I can see soldiers being pure killing machines if they had access to it.

I've only assessed how these perk changes will affect my tl5 agent, and haven't checked much at tl7 for you guys. Hopefully you aren't getting shafted too.

Similarly Agents are plagued by the polar opposite problem. If you aren't in a high to full defensive setup you are alpha food. You can get good AR (3300 + 350) if you really push it but will splat to anything that looks at you funny. Soldiers don't have that to worry about as much, since they can do good HP + AR and obviously reflects (not that I think that's bad or anything).

At TL5, Agents will be sitting decently. Snare perks won't land on evaders much anymore though. CS won't land on them either. AS will be all crazy too, but the actual alpha will be similar.

At TL7, it's currently really grim. It looks like full AR setups will make Agents good at killing, but the horrid lack of defense will make it pretty sucky. Full defense setups will lack the offense to kill (especially melee if AS is interruptible) since the secondary AS will have a def check. We'll see what FC has in the works though.

[Canibaal]

If FC makes RE perk line dependent on RE weapon used, it will be a disaster.

Not only AR soljas gonna be affected but many pistol wielding profs will be nerfed in process. This is a BAD IDEA.

Pistol Soljas may have a nice alpha but they lack AR to be viable in pvp. With AS/FA lockout scenarios, this crappy move will completely paralyze a Pvp Solja.

[Kinkst44h]

I could go on, I’m only 20% of the way through the new profession perklines PDF, but I think that’s enough indication of the large perk DD that’s going around.

Yet soldiers aren't allowed to have DD perks anymore.

Soldiers are goin to be the only prof running around with 10 perks in some pathetic general perkline like NCU extensions or Enhance Health. As if having the worst procs ingame wasn't bed enough, we now effectively have 10 less perks than everyone else.

How many of those classes have burst in additon to their capping special? Adv? Fixer?.

Their AS isnt as good as a soldier FA. Fixer FA is not as good as a soldier FA. Fixer burst is not as good as a soldier burst. 40s SA shouldnt even be considered when talking about this stuff.

So really, no. Soldier DPS is insane in PVP. It really is. And yes I said DPS.
"But kink, DPS doesnt matter when people can outheal it!111"

a) It does actually matter even in a world of unnerfed healing
b) Healing is being adjusted. Suddenly soldier defence skyrockets relatively, and so does your offence.

Things like this need to be kept in mind when discussing stuff like this. Quite frankly this forum shouldnt exist yet when the real change (healing) hasnt even been mentioned yet.

[Canibaal]

My doc is 195 and i was thinking to perk RE later when I lvl up as DD lines are frankly very limited for docs. By making RE perks weap wield dependent, docs wont be able to use them as I noticed that guns like dreadlock rapier etc have very huge wielding requirements.

So, I will say that by leaving RE line as it is, many profs will be happy as a bunny

[Boltgun]

Things like this need to be kept in mind when discussing stuff like this. Quite frankly this forum shouldnt exist yet when the real change (healing) hasnt even been mentioned yet.

There is 3 problem, first solds are losing a major part of their alpha and DD. It is indeed less of a problem with a heal nerf. And, bah, seriously too bad. I don't mind that much.

Second problem is we'll go SMG+RE. Because we can, because it give the DD and alpha back, and more, because we may even have the offence to hit with that. We did it before and we'll do it again. That's why I'm sure something will be fixed as I'm planning my Envy + Rapier setup already, and damn I hated our old pistol+smg combo.

Also assault rifle setup run out of perklines. Really I'm not kidding when I say that after spending in heavy ranged (8), special forces (10), and colossal health (10) there is no perklines left. No. perk. left. 12 points into generic lines, I'd give my ofab back for better perks and research. More the reason to put the shark into a trash can.

[Mastablasta]

Soldiers have since late SL had completely disproportionate damage output anyway. I don't see why you're whining.

[Canibaal]

Soldiers have since late SL had completely disproportionate damage output anyway. I don't see why you're whining.

Hello? RE perk line changes not only affect soljas, but other pistol wielding profs as well...

for a NT who can do tons of dmg in one click is whinning about soljas offence is hilarious at best!

[Saetos]

Oh, wait, I have an awesome idea.


Have all 4 damage perks require you to have EITHER:
Energize running, OR
Ranged Energy weapon equipped


RE users will get advantage of constant perking. Non-RE users will get their alpha back.

[Mastablasta]

Hello? RE perk line changes not only affect soljas, but other pistol wielding profs as well...

for a NT who can do tons of dmg in one click is whinning about soljas offence is hilarious at best!

Who's whining? I'm simply saying soldier damage output was since the introduction of perennium guns that soldiers have had insane damage output compared to their survivability.
That others lose damage output, that will only be fair of course to better level their output compared to soldiers.
NTs can when fulfilling more demands than any other profession in the game at endgame have decent damageoutput, but still no survivability. You whining over NT damage output is a complete joke at best!

[Questra]

Soldiers have since late SL had completely disproportionate damage output anyway. I don't see why you're whining.

You're completely wrong. Look at PvM DD, where soldiers perform well but similarly to many other DD profs.... and then take about 10k damage away every 11s.

Why? Because in PvP our capping special only does on average 25% of what it does in PvM. Soldiers aren't the only prof with this quirk either but there are tons of profs who do similar DD to solds in PvM, who don't lose damage due to 30% caps.

NTs are one example, since you laugh at 30% caps. I find it ironic that it was an NT who made that comment.

I think the fact that you're claiming that soldiers running around with SPBs years ago did huge PvP damage shows that you have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever. There were profs worse than solds back then, but not very many, and we were stuck with that blue dildo for far too many years.

[Mastablasta]

NTs lose loads of damage to 30% caps. Just look at how the picture changed when we went to 30% instead of 40%.
But then, it doesn't really matter in the slightest. Reducing the damage output in that manner won't really cause all the mumbo jumbo you're on about. What about the increased damage from other sources? It would appear that this makes things stay at status quo.

[Hacre]

You're completely wrong. Look at PvM DD, where soldiers perform well but similarly to many other DD profs.... and then take about 10k damage away every 11s.

Why? Because in PvP our capping special only does on average 25% of what it does in PvM. Soldiers aren't the only prof with this quirk either but there are tons of profs who do similar DD to solds in PvM, who don't lose damage due to 30% caps.

NTs are one example, since you laugh at 30% caps. I find it ironic that it was an NT who made that comment.

Please don't insult your own intelligence by making it out to be this cut and dry when it isn't.

NTs might laugh about 30% caps in a single press of a button against some but long for a 30% cap against others. Factor into this damage rolls between a range and I can go from hitting a Soldier for more than 30% to barely scratching 20%. I've even barely broken 15% against HP setup Soldiers.

Not to mention Triple not hitting for 30% against Enforcers even with NBS up. (Ganked an Enforcer in 2ho the other day, I was logging soon so popped NBS.

NBS+CB+SI+IU+DM+Triple did not = Enforcer death).

I bet you could have killed that Enfo way quicker.

[Questra]

NTs lose loads of damage to 30% caps.

I think we're done here.

Soldier damage is currently good in PvP but it's similar to other DD profs, many of whom are getting huge perk DD added to their toolset according to those PDFs.

Yet we seem to be loosing the only substantial perk DD we had. We wouldn't mind if our AR perkline actually had DD, and if we were given a new perkline not related to offense.

Do you think it's fair that only one out of 14 profs should have to blow 25% of their perks in a general line because there's no other choice?

[Questra]

I get so defensive about NTs even when there's no reason to

I'm not saying anything about NT damage being unfair. I'm fine with it. I'm not the one pointing the big plastic nerfbat.

Your buddy there is continuing his holy war against soldiers and I'm purely defending my corner by showing that he's talking nonsense.

"30% caps nerf NTs" ...give me a break...

"The SPB was the worst thing for PvP since AS" ...please...

So far 95% of people support what the soldier feedback threads are saying, and we're asking for small, reasonable things. Like not to loose 10 whole perks.