What keepers ACTUALLY need

[Xenotric]

current plans for AoR line essentially make it so you have at the end the equivlent of a permenant fixer short hot, ok the short hot can POTENTIALLY tick for more and ticks 1 second faster but is not able to run permenatly.

Even at lower levels its above that of fixer long hots.

Sure it could heal more, all hots could these days, only one thats had a reasonable update since the pre-SL health amounts has been the fixer long hot.

But at the same time its not meant to make you invincible or be the uberest of defenses but something to tick along increasing the general survivability of keepers. And considering you dont have to cast it, and it can't be stopped and it heals a reliable amount I dont think your getting a bad deal.

Sure it costs 10 perk points to get it fully done but I think if they added a few decent perk actions in with it then the cost will be worth it.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

current plans for AoR line essentially make it so you have at the end the equivlent of a permenant fixer short hot, ok the short hot can POTENTIALLY tick for more and ticks 1 second faster but is not able to run permenatly.

Even at lower levels its above that of fixer long hots.

Sure it could heal more, all hots could these days, only one thats had a reasonable update since the pre-SL health amounts has been the fixer long hot.

But at the same time its not meant to make you invincible or be the uberest of defenses but something to tick along increasing the general survivability of keepers. And considering you dont have to cast it, and it can't be stopped and it heals a reliable amount I dont think your getting a bad deal.

Sure it costs 10 perk points to get it fully done but I think if they added a few decent perk actions in with it then the cost will be worth it.

agree with all.

But, poignantly so with actions. If the line had a couple decent actions, like add the blassing line to it, then uberbump.. or other healing options.. but, as it is, it just deosn't heal ENOUGH to be worthwhile in PVP.

No question, it's great in PVM, and for teaming, but common, thats only a part of the game. I'd say, if you condense the line to 6 perks, and add the 20% healing perk at perk 1, and have it always available, form level 10 through 220, then we're back on track.

[Xkeeper]

Merging AoR and blessing would be way too OP. Blessing alone is already one of the best perk lines.

New AoR perk action looks good but noone will perk that line because keepers are short on perks. Noone would give up on Reaver/HM/BioS/Blessing for it. Especially with the new HM perk action.

we could leave blessing a HP only perk and add heal specials to AOR... We really dont need the HP from blessing that much

[McKnuckleSamwich]

we could leave blessing a HP only perk and add heal specials to AOR... We really dont need the HP from blessing that much

Part of the problem is that at TL7 there is 7 boatloads of HP coming in, whereas at lower levels, those HP modifiers help a bit. I mean, 300 HP is nothing at TL7, but, at level 100, or whatever, someone might think differently.

I agree the healing might be OP'd at TL7. However, that is not where much of the arguments have been made for more healing... more healing is required at TL5 and below. At TL7, I'm sure there is 10 methods to heal yourself, but, at TL5 and below, the availability of decent healing perks is limited to CT and lay on hands, and CT has changes a bit, but doesn't really help, since it needs to be a much bigger heal when it becomes available.

For a keeper who has some 13K-14K hp at TL5, a 2400 heal is peanuts. IMO, CT needs a 3000 point heal, and a 100 second recharge. Nerf higher end heals if you need to balance it out, since higher end there is at least more to choose from.

[Hacre]

Part of the problem is that at TL7 there is 7 boatloads of HP coming in, whereas at lower levels, those HP modifiers help a bit. I mean, 300 HP is nothing at TL7, but, at level 100, or whatever, someone might think differently.

I agree the healing might be OP'd at TL7. However, that is not where much of the arguments have been made for more healing... more healing is required at TL5 and below. At TL7, I'm sure there is 10 methods to heal yourself, but, at TL5 and below, the availability of decent healing perks is limited to CT and lay on hands, and CT has changes a bit, but doesn't really help, since it needs to be a much bigger heal when it becomes available.

For a keeper who has some 13K-14K hp at TL5, a 2400 heal is peanuts. IMO, CT needs a 3000 point heal, and a 100 second recharge. Nerf higher end heals if you need to balance it out, since higher end there is at least more to choose from.

I disagree that merging AoR with blessing would be OP and until I see an actual reason why I will continue to do so and ask for it. Merge them please.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I disagree that merging AoR with blessing would be OP and until I see an actual reason why I will continue to do so and ask for it. Merge them please.

Ok. I ran some numbers, and what I came up with is this (I run all my numbers for TL5, because, frankyl, TL7 is not important to me) : the AoR heal gives 287/tick, 8 s ticks.

60s*(1/7s)*266=2280 hp/min

LoH =660 I think *2=1320hp/min
CT= 2348 I think (new is about 2400 with 1200 BD)= 2400/2min recharge= 1200/min

Ohya, and don't forget our uber 20s ticking nano heal:

480*60/20=1440hp.min

1320+1200=2520 hp/min with blessing vs. 2280hp/min with aoR
Thats with 6 perk in blessing, 8 perk in AoR, blessing also has dev armour, so it's obviously better.

heres where it gets retarded though, if you break AoR down a bit more, and look at the actual bonus, of 2280hp.min that works out to: 38 HD sitting, with a 2s tick (1s sitting), or 76HD bonus when standing, IF you have a 2s HD.

The point is this, why spend 8 perk in a line when doctors can get the same benefit from CR? CR=65HD. Boo, lame.

Ok. anyway, lets assume we perk allthe way into Blessing and AoR, leaving, um 1 perk for reaper, (yay)

that gives us a grand total of 1440+2280+2520=6240hp/min

Ah, blah, ok, now lets compare that with moonbeam spam:

60s*980.5 HP average (min+max)/4.74s recharge= 11,525hp/min

So, with EVERY heal a keeper can get, he can still only heal 50% as efectively as an advy with moonbeam. not to mention instas, advy perks heals, and CH, oh, and lets not forget dmg migitation, say, coon? oh, and DOF/limber

Ok, well, we all know advy is wtf stupid at TL5. so lets compare against MA.

JUST with enlightened healing touch:

(1231+667)/2=949hp*60s/8.59=6628hp/min

So there you go. EVEN an ma spamming JUST his nano heal outheals a TL5 keeper with EVERY perk and EVERY nano running.

FC: please please please combine AoR and blessing, and at LEAST give us substandard healing. We're working with the LOWEST of the low, FAR substandard healing ability, because there is no way any keeper at TL5 has enough perks for AoR even if he DID need the heals (which we all do).



Ok, now you all know why TL5 keepers are depressed.

[Xkeeper]

Part of the problem is that at TL7 there is 7 boatloads of HP coming in, whereas at lower levels, those HP modifiers help a bit. I mean, 300 HP is nothing at TL7, but, at level 100, or whatever, someone might think differently.

I agree the healing might be OP'd at TL7. However, that is not where much of the arguments have been made for more healing... more healing is required at TL5 and below. At TL7, I'm sure there is 10 methods to heal yourself, but, at TL5 and below, the availability of decent healing perks is limited to CT and lay on hands, and CT has changes a bit, but doesn't really help, since it needs to be a much bigger heal when it becomes available.

For a keeper who has some 13K-14K hp at TL5, a 2400 heal is peanuts. IMO, CT needs a 3000 point heal, and a 100 second recharge. Nerf higher end heals if you need to balance it out, since higher end there is at least more to choose from.

I really dont care about TL5, i think we should focus on balancing end game and let everything below that feel the reflexes, stop mentioning TL5, they will se the changes, but the balance mainly focus on end game, and ofcourse, those changes will affect other title level characters.

[Odov]

Fix TL7 so noone will want to play TL5 anymore, and voila we now have no population issue.

That will only force the hardcore AO players to "play TL7" (or put in 100+ more hours) and leave new players even more discouraged. All content after AI has been almost exclusively appealing to TL7 and almost nonexistent to lower TLs. This is also the same reason TL5 PvP has remained active even with a massive population decline in AO - it's just less work for an equal amount of fun. And your setups last more than a month or two.

1-205 is in need of balancing and improvements much more than 205-220/30/70 1251 days /played

[McKnuckleSamwich]

That will only force the hardcore AO players to "play TL7" (or put in 100+ more hours) and leave new players even more discouraged. All content after AI has been almost exclusively appealing to TL7 and almost nonexistent to lower TLs. This is also the same reason TL5 PvP has remained active even with a massive population decline in AO - it's just less work for an equal amount of fun. And your setups last more than a month or two.

1-205 is in need of balancing and improvements much more than 205-220/30/70 1251 days /played

my sentiments exactly. I have 1 220, and I will likely never make another, but I still enjoy TL5 because it's not such a retarded grind.

[NoGoal]

I'll just quote Bashiok (Diablo Community Manager) on this:

encouraging a player to stop leveling is just kind of weird from a design standpoint

If anything must be changed at lower levels it's not to balance twinks but leveling players.

[Heresiarch]

So there you go. EVEN an ma spamming JUST his nano heal outheals a TL5 keeper with EVERY perk and EVERY nano running.

and thats why we must MERGE AoR and Blessing !

[Coffay]

So there you go. EVEN an ma spamming JUST his nano heal outheals a TL5 keeper with EVERY perk and EVERY nano running.

not to mention you will most likely only hit that well-rolled MA 1 out of 10 tries.