TMS/AMS and Borrow Reflect suggestions

[Hacre]

@Hacre, I understand the blight of NTs and have never been against the LE nukes. What I am saying is if the nanos are (and I believe they are) going to be nerfed or removed then NT's would need something to combat soldiers since I believe we can be honest that LE nukes are not needed to kill any other profession. NT's with BR would have NBG/NBS and NSI-II locked out from use, your defenses wouldn't really increase that much. In addition if a soldier is forced to not use TMS/AMS vs an NT, then it would allow this sort of situation:

NT vs Soldier, Soldier does not use AMS/TMS, damage is exchanged fairly.
Soldier uses AMS/TMS, NT uses the BR nano and soldier would lose.
NT uses NBG or NS, Soldier quickly uses AMS/TMS and NT cannot use BR because of lockouts.

Pretty much you would be forced to unload as much DPS into each other as possible and in a massive DD vs massive DD battle, the most DD should win. Is that so bad?

You seem to -not- understand issues facing NTs, judging by this post. Soldiers aren't the only people NTs need/use LE nukes against. They're used as an "alpha finish" when someone with high HP is worn down to within range, which is no small feat and they're used as part of an alpha against people with med-low HP. Currently NTs can choose to be highly offensive or highly defensive with a few gradients in between. The highly defensive NT, while it suits some, is very slow and incredibly boring. Rooted under NS2 doesn't suit today's PvP imo and with silly cast times/cooldowns on the AI DoTs you can forget having any sort of alpha or being the anti evader that NTs currently are.

Soldier vs NT is already a massive DD vs massive DD battle. Smart soldiers can easily make a fight with an NT 50/50, a high proportion of them choose not to.

Currently active on RK1, at least active when I'm around, there's -one- soldier that knows how to make me work for a kill on him because he's smart and adapts when he knows there's NTs around.

That said, while I don't like nerfs to any profession including my own, Triple gets used less and less outside of a quick NBS gank so I personally wouldn't notice if that was gone. Doubles should stay however and still provide for and fit into an offensive NT toolset.

Anyway, whatever changes NTs face, I don't want to have tools from other professions copy/pasted into mine. It's cheap, ineffective and only serves to fuel further whining as well as putting a big spotlight on my profession for a nerfbat. No thanks.

[Gatester]

You seem to -not- understand issues facing NTs, judging by this post. Soldiers aren't the only people NTs need/use LE nukes against. They're used as an "alpha finish" when someone with high HP is worn down to within range, which is no small feat and they're used as part of an alpha against people with med-low HP.

I was saying soldiers are the only profs you need LE nukes to kill a majority of the time. I do not see a defensive focus NT killing a soldier.

As far as every other profession, LE nukes are dropping the lower health professions incredibly quickly. It isn't a finishing move for them its the whole move. Adventurers, enforcers, keepers I have seen taken out much more effectively in defensive focus.

NT's problem is an offense and defense locked together into a single line of action. It is not something that is easily balanced More situational tools or reworking/expanding existing tools could be a good approach, but you never know it could be the completely wrong way too.

[Hacre]

As far as every other profession, LE nukes are dropping the lower health professions incredibly quickly. It isn't a finishing move for them its the whole move.

No it isn't. This isn't the land of no one caring about NR and 40% caps anymore, remember?

Adventurers, enforcers, keepers I have seen taken out much more effectively in defensive focus.

Adventurers and Enforcers maybe, but Keepers, lol no. In fact Enforcers are 50/50 either way, the only advantage in def focus against an Enforcer is if the root breaks and they catch up you've got 2 panic buttons instead of just one.

NT's problem is an offense and defense locked together into a single line of action. It is not something that is easily balanced More situational tools or reworking/expanding existing tools could be a good approach, but you never know it could be the completely wrong way too.

This is a pretty vague statement. As for balance, I think you'll find that NTs are one of the most balanced professions at TL7 currently. I can't speak for other TLs, I don't play there. NTs are the anti evader and are perk fodder for most. I don't particularly mind the unithreaded system we operate under, I only point it out so often because people easily forget about it when whining about NTs.

The only -real- problem NTs have currently and by problem I mean design flaws rather than issues we face in game, is crappy nano regain after NBG/GTH and the ways to easily counteract a large proportion of our toolkit, that being blinds/roots.

The only difference between a defensive focus setup and an offensive focus setup in PvP today post LE is Detonation Matrix. Hitting someone for 15% plus nanodamage minus reflects isn't a deal maker in most cases. You pointed out, really, one profession that's an easier pill to swallow in a defensive focus set up, but guess what, if that unrootable Adventurer has any brains, when he sees NS2 fire he can simply run away and there's absolutely sod all the NT can do about it. We're not balancing around duels, I hope you recall.

{edited by Anarrina: removed}