Sneak Attack

[Neccoz]

Gotta love it when people only look at the stats on a set of armour and completely fail to apply those stats to the bigger picture.

Keepers/Shades/MAs/Enforcers packing armour like that, on top of the defensive ratings they can already get and the extra inits serving to make all but UBT/doc procs useless when it comes to debuffing inits, with AS being changed, would not be lending itself to actually balancing things. It would be ridiculous.

Just off the top of my head, if I had armour like that for my Keeper, switch sleeves for Ofab (an extra 30 dodge over what you're asking for), dalja pants for an extra 20, dodge ranged rings, regular notucomm for +80, with all the aad and evades in my symbs I'd suddenly find my keeper wandering around with 3400 or so static dodge defense, that's before bringing blind rings and the Holy Mark aao debuffing perk and outside buffs/towers/evade procs into the picture.

That's for a profession that's supposedly weak to ranged. MAs have greater dodge def than that, as do Shades and Enforcers wouldn't be far behind.

You don't think that's overpowered? If you don't then you obviously have no interest in actually balancing anything at all.

Gotta love it when people are totally forgetting a BIG part of what their argument is based on just to try to make a point.

So a soldier can get 3600 static AR, an MP can get 3,7k static def, a trader can get... I'm not going to count... If you count drains in, it's too much of both off and def anyway... A fixer's def is ridiculous, NOBODY can perk them if they don't want to be perked, MR or not, crats' defense is retarded at best, not to mention a "lolmrisuseless" button that gives them OVER NINE THOU... Err... I mean over 3k aad, agents are quite easilly on par with enfs in matter of defense, and if not, it's ok, they all use UBT to make the few hits that go through a bit slower, a twinked ranged adv is unperkable, and can reach over 3,3k AR (That's with towers though, I think), engineers are now able to perk people they couldn't before, that they probably couldn't without the 45 AR from CSS, given they now have 80% perks...

And afaik, the only ones from that list that aren't using CSS are the MPs I mentioned, but they got a plenty aad shield to make up for it. Now, imagine the same profs, without the BIG advantage CSS/CS is over CM/CC... Soldiers wouldn't kill everything x3 under a single AMS, including evaders, MPs would maybe be perkable by some people (I'm talking about good MPs, not the random noobs that slap on a Zset), traders would be what they are intended to, a support prof that criples people's defense, not that evades stuff with only one drain, fixers would at least not have 3,2k+ ar, and sitting might not mean /afk /win anymore, crats would maybe not land PM perks anymore (maybe ), agents wouldn't be an evade prof anymore, advs will not see much change, maybe a lower alpha due to some 100% perks not landing, and actually perkable by high AR profs, engies wouldn't have pet + pet + as + PM perks as a damage output, which would make people actually manage to get to them before dying.

[Hacre]

Neither does SA

I know, I never said it does.

Neccoz...what? What's that got to do with melee professions would be OP with a melee version of CSS?

Also, contradict yourself much? Without CSS Traders would be support profs that can cripple people...but with CSS they cripple people? Because if their target can't perk them, the target is crippled, if they can still perk them, well they're not exactly crippling much are they?

I'm looking for someone who knows the Trader profession better than I do now, to come and point out that if one single drain was so powerful, how come they still try to land Plunder and the PvP drains, if as you seem to imply, they don't need to?

Agents are on a par with Enforcers? ORLY? How come I can kill Agents but have a really hard time with Enforcers then?

Crats can dodge MR, yes, if their timing is spot on, because there's no point popping DtB -after- the MR alpha started now is there? Besides, so what if they can dodge MR? They're a profession who rely more on aad than Fixers do. Who said pressing MR should be autowin?

If you think losing 15 AR from CSS would stop the 80% check pistol perks from landing, you're sadly deluded.

[sultryvoltron]

Melee won't be able to interrupt the new AS?

[Neccoz]

Neccoz...what? What's that got to do with melee professions would be OP with a melee version of CSS?

I don't see a single reason mentioned, that was valid, to say so. I mentioned a lot of things that happen because ranged have actually access to that armor melees don't. I gave arguments, you didn't.

Also, contradict yourself much? Without CSS Traders would be support profs that can cripple people...but with CSS they cripple people? Because if their target can't perk them, the target is crippled, if they can still perk them, well they're not exactly crippling much are they?

So, if you can't heal (drains, gth), can't cast offensive nanos (drains, gth), can't cast defensive nanos (drains, gth), can't land regular hits (drains/ams drain), can't buff (drains, gth) (less important I guess, except if you're a prof which has stuff like... you know... ams, 65s long damage buffs, etc), can't hotswap (drains), can't move (roots), but can still perk the trader (MR, TS based perks, gimp trader, perks launched before drain(s)), that makes you not crippled? I'm sorry, but you are the one being delusional.

I'm looking for someone who knows the Trader profession better than I do now, to come and point out that if one single drain was so powerful, how come they still try to land Plunder and the PvP drains, if as you seem to imply, they don't need to?

I do know it better than you, and the reasons traders try to cast plunder/pvp drains are:
1. It adds 275 AR (Or/And 300 off/def)
2. It adds 12% crit
3. It adds 275 nanoskills
4. Your roots depend on nanoskills (orly?)
5. Your next target might have more NR, see 3.
6. Your target might still use one or two things from his whole toolset
7. Draining your initial target, who is already crippled, helps you against the ones that aren't

Agents are on a par with Enforcers? ORLY? How come I can kill Agents but have a really hard time with Enforcers then?

I was speaking of static defense, obviously, you are just deforming my words to try to have ONE argument actually right.

Crats can dodge MR, yes, if their timing is spot on, because there's no point popping DtB -after- the MR alpha started now is there? Besides, so what if they can dodge MR? They're a profession who rely more on aad than Fixers do.

Timing is a matter of skills and experience, if you expect the crat to not be spot on on DTB, you can expect the enf to not be spot on on MR. Delaying one means delaying the other, to make both players on the same level skill. Plus, crats are a rooting/snaring profession, and therefore most of the time a kiting profession, so rarely toe to toe, especially if the target is an atrox.

Who said pressing MR should be autowin?

Ever played AO? I mean, since AI launch.

If you think losing 15 AR from CSS would stop the 80% check pistol perks from landing, you're sadly deluded.

When we're talking about engineers who have crap AR, 20% difference is A LOT, especially since AAO IS NOT COUNTED IN THE AMS VS DMS PERCENTAGE AND IS THEREFORE ALWAYS 100% VS 100% AAD. Plus, once again, you are manipulating my words to fit yours, I said it could "probably" make the difference in perking vs not perking, against profs they might not be able to WITHOUT THE 105 AAO MELEES DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO.


Please, try to quote phrase by phrase, so you might actually read them and see I didn't say what you imply I did, and will just talk about something else that nobody talked about.

[Bluephazon]

would love faster snk recharge ill even settle for 20s.. but this is a great idea

[Kinkstaah]

lol, hacre

adding 90 def for enforcers or keepers would "massively overpower" them?

I put up a transfer tower the other day. Maybe you should do that, and your keeper would then be "ridicously overpowered" and you'd be fixed, impervious to ranged fire!

[PingBong]

well the excuse has always been that "melee has bigger perk alpha" or more regular damage which might have been true some bunch years ago but nowdays and especially with the proposed changes has no merit to it whatsoever, bump for 11s SA (or 40s AS/FA)

[McKnuckleSamwich]

no no no no no no no.

In the future of AO, we're moving away from capped hits and capped specials.

If anything, keep SA recahrge the same, but change AS to a 40 second max recharge as well.

All the capped hits and crap just screw the game up.

[Frubaliscious]

I used to think this would be a good idea, but really, SA is not one of those specials that you just smash buttons constantly not knowing if it's rdy or not, you have to time it, plan on when you use it, it's one of the few things that take some foresight and creativity to get the most out of anymore. I have to agree, I'd rather see other specials adjusted before SA; or at least a very minor improvement allowing higher SA skill to shave off 5-10 seconds at most.