I'm pretty sure FC will test it themselves. If FC takes a well setup agent and a well setup enfo, and sees who has nano trouble at tl5 I see a huge nerf incoming for enfos. :POriginally Posted by agentwolve
If anything, agent defense needs a boost for the huge nerf their offense is getting, at least if everyone else isn't nerfed in the same way. We can all agree that CH doesn't cut it atm.
Zirkonium 220 Nanomage Engineer - RK2 - Omni
Mereditche 170 Opifex Agent - RK2 - Omni
Misfiled 49 Nanomage Enforcer - RK2 - Omni (First! Mongo Smash!)
There is simply a big difference between twinks and vp leechers at tl5. Im talking about twinks while Mereditche seems to be talking about leveling characters struggling against generic debuffs or nano cost of 3rd or 4th CH.
About enfs; like almost every class here they dont have any nano troubles. So far my only tl5 character that had some serious nano troubles was ... NT. IMHO the thing that makes them OP at tl5 isnt their AR but evades, nr and the amount of aad they can have. I dont mind enfs to be nerfed as my account is frozen and most likely im not coming back anymore. If i ever would i also have, except an enf, a tl5 trader, agent, nt and a leveling engi close to tl5 with AMEP setup in my mind so telling that im screaming for nerf because my enf twink fails is kinda retarded argument because it may fail in fact but at last i have many options to choose between.
@ agentwolve
What makes you think that i would be ever interested in working on a sinking ship?
Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.
10*10300HP=100K
ok?
I would like a game that is fun even if I have not spend weeks and weeks in campalot for tara loot.
I would consider myself well above average geared, compared to VP leeches and lvling toons, but I still die a lot.
actually I get a very happy feeling whenever I kill someone.
I do not know how to time the perks perfectly, that is correct, I am still learning.
I have research maxed out, QL 300 NCU, infused compiler and NCU.. 1K tokenboard
the armor is NR based, meaning a combination of barter armor (QL 200), and SL armor. Good HUD items and rings.
Sure, by principle I have not gotten an AI armor, though I can see from calculations that AI armor + NR perk would give more NR than my current armor gives, and actually give me higher nano skills..
When I was using a rifle, I killed once in a while.
Now I am set up for bow.. I have 1 BS kill..
Now I go for having fun and team play, being a support Agent, rather than a killing one, aiding a team. Being a solo-killing agent simply is too hard.
and on a bow agent impossible (for me).
I indeed look forward to the perks opening up for new weapons and hopefully better bows, that use physic init.
If CH was overpowered, then I would still live, even without AI armor.
a nanomage set up for nanocombat; NR, evades init and nanoskills, rather than offecive powers, can not survive on CH, I don't consider it OverPowered.
OverPowered things everyone can use, so if I am too unskilled to survive on CH as agent, then CH isn't OP.
on a side note: my (real, not mimic) trader does well, somehow it is easier managing drains of health, skill and AC than to push AS/CH as some claim is the easy agent life..
Kind Regards
-Ariensky
Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange
Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
With the description / plate saying:
When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.
if you don't use CH all that much arien, wouldn't it not affect you too much..
Also, as nano NR setup you probably don't have 14K+HP, meaning, if the total nerf was 50% healing efficacy, you would still probably get 90-95% of your HP filled per use... no?
why not cut the half?
5k of heal 4 sec recharge?
wouldn't that make everyone happy?
btw we are still waiting on the god mode pvp vidz while agent is chain casting CH tanking 2 or 3 ppl on him , because at title 7 i could make such vidz with an enf or an advy , and am still not making threads nerf advy/enf please
i'm just not tryin to solo enf.
Each time i see a keeper he just run on me fire everything no matter am snaring him, and walking back, no matter ubt landed he is just rushing on me on solo like a headless chicken and usualy i will save perks for a more valuable target.
from years and years i see keeper flame me for kitting (hu am not runing on circle am just snaring and walkin bk ... that a xploit?) and now what? dud you heal cheat!!!!
(sometimes it goes bad with keep they survive snare then reach me use ubt cleaner and i have to choose between CH and ubt and i prooly dies what ever option if not bail out)
Last edited by khadafie; Nov 13th, 2009 at 05:27:31.
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Usually agent doesn't need to deal with 2-3 people on him because he can snare/root out of range. So, any vid you see wil be of 1 vs 1, then he goes to find his next victim.
if you got 5k heal, 4 sec recharge, maybe you are just a 219 doc in disguise?
Some of you are beginning to step over the line. Be careful you don't go from discussing the issue to berating each other. Crack on...
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No, because our defense is already lacking and easily disabled. What agents need is a boost in defense, not a nerf. I have a tl5 enfo in pretty crap setup and its 10 times easier to survive. If you want you really never die: Run in, alpha, run away, repeat.
As an agent, you are easily disabled and killed. CH is far from a reliable defense. Off course enfos are one of the professions that have a harder time disabling it, but any good enfo has a good chance to kill an agent in recharge if they take 2 minutes to think about their tactic instead of: run in, alpha, run away.
Zirkonium 220 Nanomage Engineer - RK2 - Omni
Mereditche 170 Opifex Agent - RK2 - Omni
Misfiled 49 Nanomage Enforcer - RK2 - Omni (First! Mongo Smash!)
If it is so easy to run in and out doing pew pew pew in between as an enf while agent in fp doc is so unreliable and easly killed why the hell did you use fp doc every time i saw you? I like the idea of agents going FP enf instead of doc. It would make it possible to wear them down with constatnt dmg instead of perfectly-timed-and-mastered-during-years-easy-to-execute-if-only-you-think-about-it-for-at-last-2-minutes alpha.
BTW this topic isnt about enfs, if you feel that they could use a bit of nerfing feel free to make your own topic and post some arguments. I do hope tho that your knowledge about enfs is a bit higher than about agents so we wont have to post fraps to prove our statements
Last edited by Ciekafsky; Nov 13th, 2009 at 09:36:30.
Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.
.. the obvios answer is:
because it is the best agents have for killing others solo and survive..
it also works good in teams, as you can heal others.
The problem is exactly what you point out in the quote above:
Agents have a really bad defence as FP doc, and we have nothing better..
Sure we can go trader, enf or soldier, but it isn't as efficient in most situations.
I think mimic trader is way more fun, debuffs hurt you less, but the time required to successfully land drain (remember agents are worse off for that than traders, less attack rating and longer casting times) means less healing.
I play agent because I like a challenge, that is also why I don't just go for AI armor, it is too repetitive and boring to get.
the NR setup I am phasing out with an evade/hp one though, as it seems to work better especially in PVM, but the NR setup is what I have PVPed in the most.
as always, to have an easy time, I log a non-agent toon
To have a debate about balancing, you need to talk about more than one profession, you need to compare things.
All a scale (old weight) is comparing one object to another (modern ones does the same, they compare a mass they were adjusted with at the factory with your mass).
Mentioning that other professions have an easier time, is a way of showing "maybe this isn't as bad as you try to put it"
Here is the link for my old non-AI armor NR setup.
as I see it, the thing missing is another armor(bracers,rings,gloves) and more AI lvls, apart from that and waiting for the coming perk changes so I can use CS with a bow, I think it looks fine.
At least I think it looks way better than a lvling or VP leeching toon.
also it is way better than my traders setup, the trader that has an easier time.
Thank you for taking the time to read my reply.
Kind Regards
-Ariensky
Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange
Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
With the description / plate saying:
When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.
Everything besides nano drains is insta cast at full def in mimic trader
Cookie'FF'Tastic
The peace sign is just the middle and the trigger finger
your telling me you cant tell when someone has just finished casting and begins nano recacharge, hell ill agree having to deal 100k dmg is not fair but those cirucumstances would never occur against other twinks who know the basics of pvp.
i find it hard to believe that you have 1) a completey twinked tl 5 character 2) know how to actaully play and 3) dont understand that using you alpha in the 8 seconds of recharge is not at all hard to do.
ok if you attack the agent with like .. fast attack then brawl 3 seconds later ... then a DD perk every 15 seconds like some lame NPC then yeah your gona have problems...
170 agent could prolly take on about an army of people who dont use AS and wear medsuit, that does not make them OP
Its best AND good for soloing&surviving. Wheres the bad part in that?
..Oh, there it is.
Ofc you wont do well in mediocre setup. You will be just that...Mediocre.
Wut the hell, is that like... hard to understand? :O
Yes, mimic doc is the most effective, good for soloing and in teams in BS, but as you will see in this post: easily disabled.
The argument goes on: even the best is easily disabled AND that healing will be nerfed.
Is that hard to understand?
So you should only be able to have fun in AO when you have a full set of AI armor?
My argument is: if CH is OverPowered, then why doesn't it work on a Mediocre setup?
when other professions work just fine with less than Mediocre equipment.
is it also considered Mediocre not going for a melee weapon switch for a sneak attack?
it is my hope that PVP should be doable and fun, even without AI armor, and for some professions it is.
Ziitta, you wholeheartedly mean that people without AI armor should not show up in BS?
that they should have no chance to survive, make your time?
that all the BS are belong to you?
I hope that made you understand the issue better, please hold back on the cursing, it does not make your argument any clearer.
Kind Regards
-Ariensky
PS. Thank you for pointing that out cookie (big fan here), but I still have cast-time on the AC and health drains..
A thing to work on I see, thank you for the advice
and the other advices you have given me through time.
Cookie: remember your heal and combat MP pet next time, they indeed do give a little extra, just go MP, cast the pets and sign up for BS.
for trippy effects you can give them BEHE and sparkling shields too
some times you loose the pets going to BS, some times you don't I have not been able to spot the deciding factor yet..
PPS. Clicky for fun nostalgia
Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange
Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
With the description / plate saying:
When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.
OK, I think you MAY finally begin to understand!!!!! Praise the lords of AO I didn't think it would happen... buy it appears there may even be hope for the balancing act.
Ok, since you are actually starting to put two and two together, MR. Wolve:
How do you think a prof without a CAPPING hit, can Force an agent into CH WITHOUT USING THE DD PERKS HE NEEDS TO KILL HIM DURING RECHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
When you've figured that out, I might start reading your posts again.
oh, and gz.
Other professions don't work "just fine" with less than mediocre equipment, either. Definitely not in PvP, not in Battle Station. And not at TL5. I have friends with quite mediocre TL5 toons that are stopped leveling projects - 1hb enf, MBC doc, ranged advie, martial artist - and guess what, they all get steamrolled and/or their defences get easily disabled. So they, in essence, don't "work".
I do have a level 150 soldier that's without AI armor, but I wouldn't say entirely mediocre otherwise. His defenses get easily disabled too, even though you can actually accomplish something useful (and kill people) from time to time. So he is functional. I am quite sure if you load up on similar non-AI armor gear and good symbs you can make things work for your TL5 CH agent (ofab, reactive, etc). Those with better equipment will of course have an edge, that's why they have obtained the equipment in the first place... Yes?
Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
Ranged roxxorz!
Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
Thank you for your post eroz_c, I can only agree with you.
This debate is turning from "is CH balanced" over to "is CH balanced for people with mediacore equipment" till "should we balance AO around the top 2% PVPers or the average joe player".
So I have made a new thread, to not derail this here.
I think we need to know if the balancing will be on average joe or top 2% PVPers to say if CH is balanced or not, because it looks like it can not be so in the current situation.
I dislike the fact that your friends stopped PVPing, because they found the fights unfair, as they did not have good enough equipment, not because they lacked skill.
With good equipment they could train to become better in PVP, but without, they just were left for dead. With the option to grind an armor for months, then get a chance to learn and improve.
Kind Regards
-Ariensky
Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange
Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
With the description / plate saying:
When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.
My crat gets killed by 150 ofab armor & chiropteras enfos, while its 173 and twinked with all the most expensive phats. Do you see me making pointless whines about that constantly? GET OVER IT. Keepers just plain suck at tl5 pvp. I bet there majority of professions decently twinked own your keeper easily. I know my crat does atleast just mostly toy with them in BS. And it seems you want all those other profs nerffed so you can do better. Thats very far from constructive and just plain tiresome, why i havent even bothered answering anymore in this thread for a while. Only reason i am actually doing it now is because im slightly drunk and just got annoyed reading through this.
Why arent you also whining about traders/advies/crats/fixers/docs/enfos/mps etc. that you cant even come close to killing with your keeper if they are decent?
Atleast reading the perk change files so far it seems traders and such will come out top at TL5 now when perks will execute slowly, while debuffs will still stay as fast as before, so you can debuff your target while they are trying to queue their slow alpha on the trader. And agents wont be even coming near to alpha trader anymore, 1 drain will already pacify em.
What next? Will we got some overly loud and angry TL5 shade coming here to whine and request nerf for everyone else because shade is not functioning (another similar SL perk based prof like keeper) at TL5 at all in pvp.
I personally hope FC isnt even reading this section of the forums seriously.
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