3K Aimed shot req agent's perk

[Klod9000]

Sure, Agent's can just magically get +500 to +1000 Rifle AR out of thin air.

If you use that dodge debuff yes, pretty much (or at least 350).

You have details on the Heal nerf? no? Then it's pretty pointless trying to say how much better things will be after it. All we can do is compare what's been detailed against what we currently have, and based on that, the damage isn't really improved at all, it's definitely not significantly improved, not for PvP and not for PvM.

Well, we are all pretty much screwed, if we gonna look at things that way.

[Ebondevil]

If you use that dodge debuff yes, pretty much (or at least 350).

Agent damage comes purely from how often they hit, which, after the changes, will be solely based on their attack rating, if the Agent isn't hitting then no damage is being done, so Agents are going to need a vastly improved AR template, even factoring in Bullseye, to compensate for the changes to Aimed shot and perks we've seen so far.

[Moonbolt]

ebon im sorry im an enf and dont realy know agent tools all that well..
couldnt u make a calc on an agent in an AR setup and see aroudn where u land in AR etc if u calc the -350 dodge buff etc.
that imo is the easiest way to see if agents will be somewhat competitive in pvp.

[Klod9000]

Agent damage comes purely from how often they hit, which, after the changes, will be solely based on their attack rating, if the Agent isn't hitting then no damage is being done, so Agents are going to need a vastly improved AR template, even factoring in Bullseye, to compensate for the changes to Aimed shot and perks we've seen so far.

I don't know, but balancing won't stop only on perk changes - as it was stated already.

Anyways, you got some nice perk changes, don't try to make it look bad, when it's not.

[Ebondevil]

I don't know, but balancing won't stop only on perk changes - as it was stated already.

Anyways, you got some nice perk changes, don't try to make it look bad, when it's not.

I'm not trying to make things look bad, sorry if I'm giving that impression, to be honest in general I'm pleased with the perk changes for agents, and I'm aware there are more changes to come.

Until we see some of the documentation for those changes however, trying to determine if the perk changes are good or bad in regards to them is very difficult to ascertain.

We can only judge things based on what we know, and from the current viewpoint the changes to the most used perks aren't good, the changes to the unused perks however are.

Do the benefits outweigh the costs as things stand? For PvM yes, for PvP no.

[laillea]

ebon im sorry im an enf and dont realy know agent tools all that well..
couldnt u make a calc on an agent in an AR setup and see aroudn where u land in AR etc if u calc the -350 dodge buff etc.
that imo is the easiest way to see if agents will be somewhat competitive in pvp.

Being full AR setup means the agent no defense, any nab can debuff him and any anb can perk him.

That's not being competitive if you compare to other profs.

Ofc we can perk some ppl in full AR setup but we deserve more lub .

[Berserkmc]

u do know that challanger lasts for 1.30 mins right? ..

basically u can cast challanger wait out the 29 sec recharge.. while in stealth cast BE alpha then rage and run away.

Ahha, and my target wait 24 seconds of recharge doing nothing and of course wait until i'm sneak after challenger cast. In theory, i can, but on practice, your target just walk off, not even run. Or kill you while you are in recharge. Sorry, we don't have defense of real enforcer in mimic, no cocoons, no heals to survive that recharge. And there is no tool, which help sneak from the combat.

ebon im sorry im an enf and dont realy know agent tools all that well..
couldnt u make a calc on an agent in an AR setup and see aroudn where u land in AR etc if u calc the -350 dodge buff etc.
that imo is the easiest way to see if agents will be somewhat competitive in pvp.

Just try read my post before say something like that. 3350 Rifle+AAO AR with 2x highest towers(dont forget, towers not avaible for all) in AR setup. So it means 3700 with bullseye(dodge debuff) by complete sacrifice of evades.

Well I run fasle profession soldier then TP then doc so I always got soldier's buff running (at + total focus is 74 AR or so).

I already said, i'm using TP for remove mimic trader which i need to rebuff my SL procs. 50 AR from TF not help me perking, but SL procs give me half of my regular per each proc. My regulars hit evaders more often, than perks lands.

Klod, i'm sorry to you, but you completely misunderstood me, dont read my posts, or just troll. All my calculations include maxed AR and BullsEye. Read better please, or stop trolling. If you dont know agents, just go away from us.

[Moonbolt]

yeah but sorry berserkmc .. ur post is written with an angry subcontext to it.
and u still fail to see the point that if needed challanger can increase ur AR by alot.

im wondering if u go for max AR on an agent how much would u be able to reach.
in full CC with the + rifle research hud, and other + rifle items for a quick and pure gank setup at 220.

if u can get upwards closer to 4k AR that is better then enfs and soldiers are getting atm.
and thereof meaning that u prolly wouldnt have any problem perking most professions.
atleast not the professions that u can perk today.

the biggest difference would be that instead of goin FP doc and CHing urself, u would have to change ur tactic to etiehr run FP soldier and TMS.. or run FP enf with rage mongo and challanger.

if i were an agetn with those options for a succesfull pvp id defenatly chose the enforcer part.

[Berserkmc]

yeah but sorry berserkmc .. ur post is written with an angry subcontext to it.
and u still fail to see the point that if needed challanger can increase ur AR by alot.

im wondering if u go for max AR on an agent how much would u be able to reach.
in full CC with the + rifle research hud, and other + rifle items for a quick and pure gank setup at 220.

if u can get upwards closer to 4k AR that is better then enfs and soldiers are getting atm.
and thereof meaning that u prolly wouldnt have any problem perking most professions.
atleast not the professions that u can perk today.

the biggest difference would be that instead of goin FP doc and CHing urself, u would have to change ur tactic to etiehr run FP soldier and TMS.. or run FP enf with rage mongo and challanger.

if i were an agetn with those options for a succesfull pvp id defenatly chose the enforcer part.

Yes, it is angry context. I'm angry, because i'm play my agent from 2002 year, and there is no major changes in profession mechanic since SL, all agents is listen - "you have 11s AS, CH and UBT and you are fine".
Pre-SL i running around, spam AS from Caterwaul, i can even use CH. Damn, i have more tactial optins, like FP trader, enf, sold, MP.
After SL release i still running around with spamming AS, and using CH, now without sacrifices, and we get some perks to help, but we are still "have 11s AS, CH and UBT". AI and LE also nothing change in this. Actually after SL hit live we have no other choices, than use mimic doc, "11s AS, CH and UBT". If agent want to survive, he should use it. Or being a silly meeping ganker, which can't do anything except gank flagged people with resetted evades and many other skills.

If you dont know, we have 2 types of Attack Rating for perks, one type is check Rifle skill (common AR), another checking AimedShot (AS AR, hidden).
So, i can reach around 3.7k AS AR, not rifle. It's pure, not count debuff. With debuff it become to 4000. It is all in full AR setup, sacrificing all evades and have towers.
In same equip i can get only 3350 Rifle AR, which is 3.7k with debuff. And i only can reach it if i have a towers and sacrifice all defense, so any agent w/o towers never can reach that value. 3.7k still not enough to perk good evade professions.

In my evade setup just right now i have 3k Rifle AR(3350 with BE landed) and 3300 AS AR(3650 with BE), so i can not land Rifle perks and not landing CS on evade professions, only landing AI perks sometimes. I have no towers just right now. So i'm running around, using outbuffs and keeper/crat auras to reach amount of AS AR for perking evaders. Most of the time i can survive their alphas because i have CH. Each time i come to mimic trader, mimic enf or mimic soldier, i can not survive and end up on reclaim, since doctors prefer to heal someone else with better defense and power.
If i had towers, my AS AR will come to 3800(with BE), which is enough to perk evaders under limber, so i have more power. I still can't use Rifle perks, since they have 3.4k AR(with BE), but i'm happy with just one CS and many survive abilites.
If perk patch goes live as it is, i even have no option to get reasonable amount of Rifle AR to perk someone, who have high evades, even if we sacrifice our own evades and have towers. And even yes, actually i think towers should be optional, not musthave.

[Klod9000]

Yes, it is angry context. I'm angry, because i'm play my agent from 2002 year, and there is no major changes in profession mechanic since SL, all agents is listen - "you have 11s AS, CH and UBT and you are fine".

Trust me, it's way better then "flavor of the month" what, f.ex., MPs had. Give it time. Who knows, maybe you get blockers as well.

[Berserkmc]

Trust me, it's way better then "flavor of the month" what, f.ex., MPs had. Give it time. Who knows, maybe you get blockers as well.

Well, we tired of wait. Most of my agent friends just quit game, they tired. All the time they read a forums i just listen one thing - "there is no changes".

[Ebondevil]

Trust me, it's way better then "flavor of the month" what, f.ex., MPs had. Give it time. Who knows, maybe you get blockers as well.

How is a 4 year long discontinued Toolset (Fortunately not discontinued any more but still suffering from it), and token improvements for pretty much as long, better than "Flavour of the Month"?

[Klod9000]

How is a 4 year long discontinued Toolset (Fortunately not discontinued any more but still suffering from it), and token improvements for pretty much as long, better than "Flavour of the Month"?

Because it at leasts saves your IP reset points and your nerves in general.

I'm sick of reperking/re-IP-ing/reequipping symbiants and implants already. My point is, you were practically saved from that, all these years.

[Obtena]

I'm also interested why noone has mentioned the huge nerf in damage Concussive Shot will actually do. I suppose its more than made up for the general increase of damage other agent perks will do.

Still, not seeing much use when they will be dodged, or hit a target than can just heal it away. But I suppose cant comment too much on that until other "changes" are made in regards to healing etc that people keep on speculating about.

Perhaps it's FC's attempt to show they are balancing other TL PVP ranges too. I always thought the effect CS had at TL5 was a bit OPed.

[Berserkmc]

Perhaps it's FC's attempt to show they are balancing other TL PVP ranges too. I always thought the effect CS had at TL5 was a bit OPed.

If CS are OP @ tl5 it's easy to fix - change leve req of perk. But i'm not sure tl5 agent can live with that change.