Traders balancing

[Racatti]

But but.... if you kill a trader in the first 15 seconds it's not fair!

Aren't you supposed to let them land all their stuff first so there's not a thing you can do against them?

Since the new carebear system will make ganking impossible, I bet they will **** up trader drains in return as well.

[Shareida]

But but.... if you kill a trader in the first 15 seconds it's not fair!

Aren't you supposed to let them land all their stuff first so there's not a thing you can do against them?

Start thinking out of your box.

PVP in an online game is never a one vs one.

A trader should be able to completely remove another character from the battle. If that is given, i might even accept the fact that i cannot kill that target alone.

Remove a trader's offense and give it a viable tool set to actually shut down other classes, and all is working as intended.

[Genie]

The majority of professions can deliver a full alpha in that time.

From what I understand, alphaing will receive a well deserved nerf, and if this is implemented in a good manner, alphaing will no longer be an issue.

[Esqi]

Only Shareida needs to completely shut down his opponent to be competetive.

Not often i agree with you, but yea

[Pomidor]

I would say that all drain nanos should be level restricted. This would make huge diffrance in 2 aspects:

- equippment (which, on lower leves is OP)
- Fight (where trader pre drains, chain drain enemy to death)

Of course, since FC doesnt care about low lvls, my post is just pure whine.

And yes, I have trader.

[Moonbolt]

Profs that are not going to be stopped with 1 drain are:

Adv ( especially ranged), pistol crat, soldier, fixer, enf, eng, NT, doc, agent, pre-drained shade, tigress MP and anyone else with MR up.

The rest is doable.

with 1 drain on me i cant refresh my rage, cant cast challanger, cant cast mongo or layers.
this means as soon as the trader lands the first drain... i got 2 options... run away and wait till drains run out or stand there and let the trader slowly kill me.
yes if i get up to the trader and attack him before the first drain lands... hes toast.
but my 3.5k AR drained down to 1500 AR by a trader = i cant even hit him on occasion.
sure i can sneak attack him every 40 secs.. but traders have heasl that outheal that by far.

[Moonbolt]

my bad, I've actually seen enfos on a number of occasions get this kind of attention too when entering into a metaphorical "barfight".

seems to happen to me quite alot hehe

[Shareida]

Not often i agree with you, but yea

Very constructive and smart post, keep it up. Who made you professional anyway?

with 1 drain on me i cant refresh my rage, cant cast challanger, cant cast mongo or layers.
this means as soon as the trader lands the first drain... i got 2 options... run away and wait till drains run out or stand there and let the trader slowly kill me.
yes if i get up to the trader and attack him before the first drain lands... hes toast.
but my 3.5k AR drained down to 1500 AR by a trader = i cant even hit him on occasion.
sure i can sneak attack him every 40 secs.. but traders have heasl that outheal that by far.

You know as well as me, that one drain does not prevent you from hitting MR, all specials and perks. Does it?

[Moonbolt]

i think MR is a silly and stupid perk and thereof i refuse to perk it.
so yes.. what if i had been nanomage opi or soli. i wouldnt have the possibility for MR then .
so enfs do get completely dissabled after that first drain since we are completley unable to refresh our nanos.

[Shareida]

i think MR is a silly and stupid perk and thereof i refuse to perk it.
so yes.. what if i had been nanomage opi or soli. i wouldnt have the possibility for MR then .
so enfs do get completely dissabled after that first drain since we are completley unable to refresh our nanos.

As pointed out earlier, its not about the one on one encounter. If a team with a trader runs into another team, the trader has to pick the right target to shut down.

Rather unlikely he will start with a 30k+ HP enf.

[Questra]

As pointed out earlier, its not about the one on one encounter. If a team with a trader runs into another team, the trader has to pick the right target to shut down.

Rather unlikely he will start with a 30k+ HP enf.

Usually when outnumbered I AoE root first and kite/drain after. SDS is my panic button against agents or enfs.

The problem with your posts is that you're the one thinking about traders in a 1vsZerg setting. If one trader is alone vs multiple targets your biggest problem shouldn't be "which prof to drain first".

You shouldn't be complaining about alphas in group situations if you're solo, you should expect a doc or advie to heal you, or a crat to make you unperkable, or an NT to utterly destroy the soldier that's trying to alpha you.

And if you're 1v1 you shouldn't complain about getting alphaed either, because as you say, "it's not about the one on one encounter" is it? Even if it was, the only way 95% of the players in this game have to kill a good trader 1v1 is in the first 10 seconds. You have NBG if you really really need it for those first 15 seconds, and I've failed to alpha traders exactly because of NBG in the past.

[Questra]

Judging by his posts in the NT thread, I advise ignoring Moonbolt. His NR doesn't appear to be very high for an Enforcer as he claims he rarely resists anything from NTs either and I note apparently drains land on him easily too. Arguably the best Trader on RK1 Clan side struggles to land that first drain on good Enforcers.

This is neither a flame nor a troll post, just putting the disagreeable posts into some perspective.

Hehe, if everyone had to base themselves on the capabilties of atrox enfs, we'd all have to have 4k static def, 5k nanoskills, and 30k HP.

It's good that one prof has the AR and NR to take down traders 90% of the time though. Someone's got to.

[Moonbolt]

Judging by his posts in the NT thread, I advise ignoring Moonbolt. His NR doesn't appear to be very high for an Enforcer as he claims he rarely resists anything from NTs either and I note apparently drains land on him easily too. Arguably the best Trader on RK1 Clan side struggles to land that first drain on good Enforcers.

This is neither a flame nor a troll post, just putting the disagreeable posts into some perspective.

the first drain is very easy to land as trader. it has a low def check and thereof will land pretty easy even on my 4k NR.
after that drain im completly incapable of refreshing my nanos wich means that after 30 secs no more rage etc.. lowering my NR by 1200.. wich means the other drain and nanos will defenatly land.

[alfora]

That leads to even more frustrating PvP for traders because if you can't land the debuffs in a relatively dependable manner, PvP becomes "splat or be splatted", only decided on the dumb luck of landing the nanos or not landing them. This throws skill out the window completely and reduces the trader profession to a 1 trick pony that is only based on the throw of a dice. Land nano and live or don't land it and die.

Well, I have been on the receiving end of your debuffs yesterday and they were quite desastrous for me also because my pets didn't accept me as master anymore...

But I guess there is not much to change there except throwing out of the window most of the current "all or nothing" implementation. From what I understand of the game mechanics there is a certain propability for a nano or perk to hit the target fully or not at all. You would have to change that game mechanic to "hit the target at least a little bit", just like normal melee/ranged combat does when the target wears different armour or uses AC buffs.

A debuff would hit the target from its maximum debuff value down to zero according to the offensive skills of the caster and defensive skills of the target. If your target would have a very high NR you might plunder his skills not for -325 points but maybe only for -100 points. But at least you would plunder SOME skills.

[Moonbolt]

well tbh i dunno what constructive to add in this thread.
traders is hard to get any real ideas of how they cuold change them but still keep them "traderish".

first of all... meeting a trader in pvp is anoying like hell.
if i see the trader befor ehe sees me.. hes defenatly dead in a few seconds.
if he sees me first .. im dead in the next couple of minutes.

traders do jack **** for dmg.
traders receive jack **** for dmg.

when fully drained by a trader ive lost 50% of my AR, all capabilities of casting any kind of nano,
and can just watch him kill me.

sure this is the trader way and always have been.

traders have always been one of the absolute best pvp professions.
atleast around lowbie pvp ... i dont realy remember how 200 traders was pre SL.
drains has always been anoying tho.

tbh i think 1 way of evening out the playfeild between traders and other players is to change the drain %

for example..
atm a nanite enhanced drain drains... 325 points from the attacked and gives 125 or so back.
if they changed it to be that it still gives 125 to the trader but only drain 75 from the drained it would atleast take longer time for the trader to shutdown the opponent.

[Hacre]

the first drain is very easy to land as trader. it has a low def check and thereof will land pretty easy even on my 4k AR.
after that drain im completly incapable of refreshing my nanos wich means that after 30 secs no more rage etc.. lowering my NR by 1200.. wich means the other drain and nanos will defenatly land.

No, the first drain is not very easy to land as a trader against 4K NR. So either you're lying about having 4k NR, you're not full def, or you're over exaggerating how often nanos land on you.

You haven't heard of having more than one Rage nano available in PvP? I keep lower nukes handy on my NT in case I get drained. I thought this was obvious.

[Moonbolt]

the divest skills have a 90% resist check wich means its fairly easy for a pre drained trader to land even thru 4k NR.

[Esqi]

Very constructive and smart post, keep it up. Who made you professional anyway?

Nice try, how bout you show some unbiased view points when discussing something, while trying to be constructive?

I just dont see why a prof with easily attainable DMS ratings and the ability to heal themselves while locking their opponent(s) with a multitude of options out in one or even two casts should argue about progress.

Now enfo's bieng the only true proff that can kill you in the current world, with aao adjustments taking place..

Do you wish to remain unkillable to 95% of profs in ao?

Drains should be split up into nano skill drains and weapon skill drains, this way you would have to cast some more to actually get the benefit you currently do, from one/two casts.

You know, actually work for something out there.

[Shareida]

Nice try, how bout you show some unbiased view points when discussing something, while trying to be constructive?

I just dont see why a prof with easily attainable DMS ratings and the ability to heal themselves while locking their opponent(s) with a multitude of options out in one or even two casts should argue about progress.

Now enfo's bieng the only true proff that can kill you in the current world, with aao adjustments taking place..

Do you wish to remain unkillable to 95% of profs in ao?

Drains should be split up into nano skill drains and weapon skill drains, this way you would have to cast some more to actually get the benefit you currently do, from one/two casts.

You know, actually work for something out there.

You do not expect me to watch you disassemble and troll my post. Right?

Every profession is fighting for getting higher in the food chain of AO, i just do my part. But drowning reasonable posts in short mocking replies is not the way.


I'd like to see the trader becoming more efficient in debuffing in trade for his offensive capabilities, which never were his real strength anyway.

[sultryvoltron]

You do not expect me to watch you disassemble and troll my post. Right?

Every profession is fighting for getting higher in the food chain of AO, i just do my part. But drowning reasonable posts in short mocking replies is not the way.


I'd like to see the trader becoming more efficient in debuffing in trade for his offensive capabilities, which never were his real strength anyway.

Pretty much every non-trader agrees that your ability to cripple an opponent in two clicks (or one if they are an NT/doc) is too much. If you don't find it crippling to remove 950 offense, 650 nanoskills, and 30 crit in two debuffs then I think you have unreasonable expectations of how your profession should perform.

I understand, you're worried about your aimed shot being nerfed. Your reliable offense is going away. Your ability to turn an opponent into a quivering mess that cant hit you with anything while you /disco and press O is enough as is.

All mentions of MR or man vs zerg are irrelevant.