to all the people crying that scopes should be ranged weapons only

[______________Hayake]

FC just announced a major nerf of old school scopes.

As usual a good portion of you is not trying to come up with ideas to make the nerf less harsh or try to make fc change it's mind, but instead is crying for yet another nerf to them so that they will be ranged weapons only.

You make me sick.

This is a big part of the reason why fc just keeps on nerfing item after item, because part of the playerbase will just keep on shouting for more nerfs, when fc announces one instead of trying to make them change their minds.

/hayake

[____________Halfdeck]

Maybe this isnt the time for people to demand more nerfs, but think about it. MA's already have crit chance that are beyond anyone else's reach. This scope nerf will nerf all profs but impact the MA's the least, making it even harder to fight against them in PvP. If you REALLY care, then help those of us against the scope nerf to get it through FC's heads that they should leave the scopes alone. Don't shrug off the scope nerf then turn around and flame people for wanting an equal footing with MAs.

If they just left scopes alone, no one would be asking them to be made range weps only.


Half

[Canto]

Leave scopes alone!!

but

1) Cap crits at 15-20% no matter what items or spells one is wearing. Crits should be subject to extreme diminishing returns, not linear as they are now, LOL linear crits.

2) Link crit resistance to armor class as well as evades as it should realistically be.

3) Return damage to 100% in PvP

Doing the above would be fair for all right?? no one profession or thing is nerfed and the damage is returned to 100% in pvp...unless you think MAs somehow should have a monopoly on crits.

[zjozz]

15-20% max would be a straight UVC nerf.. 30-35% would be more realistic...

[______________Hayake]

Originally posted by Halfdeck
Maybe this isnt the time for people to demand more nerfs, but think about it. MA's already have crit chance that are beyond anyone else's reach.

True half, but consider this:

What do ma's have besides crits?
We have no calms, no drains, no pets aso. We have crappy heals and green evades.
Do you really wish to nerf the only thing an MA excells in? It is all an MA has.
If you consider that and still feel the same way I guess you will agree with me that I should get drains, calms and roots like you then?

Originally posted by Halfdeck
This scope nerf will nerf all profs but impact the MA's the least, making it even harder to fight against them in PvP.
[/B]

Since you are a trader, I thought it would be a nice change for you to have a profession to fight that is a challenge, well sortof a challenge, kinda .. a little bit anyways I guess

Originally posted by Halfdeck
If you REALLY care, then help those of us against the scope nerf to get it through FC's heads that they should leave the scopes alone. Don't shrug off the scope nerf then turn around and flame people for wanting an equal footing with MAs.

If they just left scopes alone, no one would be asking them to be made range weps only.

Half [/B]

I already stated that the best solution I can think off would be to just make llts drop again.
Second best not changing anything.
Third best: making them useless for everyone but make them sell for a fair amount of creds in shops.

Now will the nerf on llts's hurt ma's imo?

It would hurt me in pvm as it will certainly lower my damage output in which in turn means that I will have to psend even more time in boring bs missions to level. Additionally the rest of the teams damage output will be lower as well, which also hurts me.

Skillwise I'd have ip in two utterly useless skills ee and ws which I would have to reset. I don't like that either. I'm not as bad off as an ithica user fi as (s)he will probably have to reset 5 skills.

What will it do for me in pvp?

It will not be the boost for me or ma's in general you seem to think it is:

against people that did not have a llts I will just lose 6% crit chance compared to before to them (I have a 14% crit scope equipped), so a clear nerf to me and other ma's using a llts in those situations.

against people that did use a llts, we would both lose whatever additional % to crit over 8% the scope gave. So both parties get nerfed and both parties will crit less. Relatively speaking a non ma loses more I agree, but in absolute terms it is the exact same.

Suppose we both had a 15% scope then in absolute terms for both of us that means we will now each lose 1 crit every 15 hits. (about 7%)

Or even more clearly stated I will lose about 2.5K damage over 15 hits, you will lose the exact same amount in your damage output.

If you look at the same situation starting from an ma that does not have a llts, the only situation that will clearly benefit the ma is the one wherein the other party had a llts and therefore loses % chance to crit while that ma doesn't. This however includes ma's like me that had a llts.

I know you in game as well half and in game at least we got along pretty well ... are my arguments that farfetched? I don't think so.

There is one point in which I see this hurt ma's less than other classes and that is that they will have less skills to reset as they will still have a decent crit chance w their fists, while ithica's aso are ready for the trashcan.

[engelstein]

Originally posted by Hayake
What do ma's have besides crits?

What else do they NEED?

We have no calms, no drains, no pets aso. We have crappy heals and green evades.
Do you really wish to nerf the only thing an MA excells in? It is all an MA has.

Yes, because you do it so well.

[Nomius]

So instead of a % nerf on the ellts or a ranged only nerf, someone wants a % crit increase cap nerf at 30%? heh

How would that affect agents who has had the special pleasure of being FC favorite knee jerk nerf item. Now there 100% crit increase would only be 30%, and they have no real defensive skills as many other profesions.

Imo Hayake has had the best suggestion when it comes to the ellts. Make them drop again, have them as mission rewards. Maby give the new scopes a less init penalty but put the old scopes ingame . And shaddup with the nerf talk, enofgh nerfing.

[____________Halfdeck]

Originally posted by Hayake

Do you really wish to nerf the only thing an MA excells in? It is all an MA has.

I don't care about UVC or making scopes range weps only. I'm not here to whine about MA's crits like soldiers and NT's whine about my drains.

I only brought up UVC because I don't buy FC's excuse for nerfing scopes. They say people crit too much in PvM. Ok I'm running around with 15% crit chance and thats too much. What about MA's running around with 40% crit chance, that's not too much?

That was my main point in the other thread.

I just don't buy FC and their excuse for their lame tactic in trying to stop people from hitting 200 and leaving. Why did the devs take so long in posting their reason for nerfing the scope? Obviously because they had to think long and hard to come up with a good EXCUSE for them to screw over their customers more than they already have. Either that or they really think this change will balance the game.. which would be even more sad.


Half


P.S. Sorry, enough nerf talk. Tired of getting riled up over a game.


EDIT. FC, if you want people to stay, 1) give your customers a little respect 2) make PvM fun from 1-200 so people want to roll more than 1 lvl 200 char -- instead of nerfing crits and making lvl 200+ mobs unbearable to kill. I rolled 3 chars in EQ, because I liked hunting in Blackburrow, High Keep, Lake of Ill Omen, Sol B, Karnar Castle...From lvl 100-200 in AO what did I do? BS missions over and over 10000 times in a row that look just like a level 1 mission rolled in the back yard.

[______________Hayake]

Originally posted by Shubalubdub
What else do they NEED?

I didn't say ma's NEED anything else.
I said critting is the only, yes the only thing an ma is good at.

If you allow other classes to come even close to the crit chance an ma has, ma's will be gimped compared to every other profession, is that that hard to see?

What some people here propose is no scopes anymore for ma, meaning an ma will have a max crit chance of
24% (uvc) + 4% (tts) + 1% (grinning hunter) + 2% (2 globes):

total 31 %

Let's take your doc for example: you would like it so you can have 15% (old scope) + 7% MoP + 4% TTS + 1% (grinning) +2% (2 globes)

Total 29 %

But you also have:

Uber heals, uber init debuff, heavy dots, grid capability.

So that would mean an ma has 2% more crit chance than any other prof while not having anything else.

Even the gimped beyond belief and definitely need loving soon engineers under slayerdroid transference would be better than ma's under such a scenario as they would have:

higher attack rating than ma's, reflect, reflect debuff, bot.

Now even if they make scopes 8% max additional crit chance and make them unusable for ma's (either by using a non ma attribute or by doing it by forcing an extreme physical init penalty on them)

An MA could have at most 9% crit chance more than any other profession. That is a meaningless bonus compared to the things other classes have going for them.

BTW there is an interesting post on the enforcer forums, about someone that actually wrote a program to compare damage output and... guess what the result was? MA's hardly do more damage than fi enforcers as it is now.

Making the scopes ranged weapons only will (as opposed to non ma) is even a worse suggestion:

Oh yes enforcers (a tank class mind you) do waaaay to much damage compared to some other 'support' classes like traders, I agree they should be nerfed as well! After all they have mongo and essence, so why would they need to do good damage? I'm sure your fellow docs will love the fact that they now do as much damage as an enforcer, so they can have aggro all the time!

OMG, those silly adventurers are doing uber damage as well, I say we take crit chance away from them! After all they have that uber Kin of Tarra nano!

And to top it off: Ooh, I can imagine those engineers jumping from joy that the one thing they had going for them (slayerdroid transference) has just been nerfed beyond belief!

I'm sorry but IMO the only 'ranged weapon' class that needs something is Soldiers (a TANK class you know) as I freely admit that compared to enforcers and ma's they could use a bit of a boost.

I see no reason, no reason at all why other ranged weapon classes need a comparative boost vs melee classes.

Agents already do very good damage.

No need to even mention traders another ranged 'support' class, that already does more damage than tank classes for like the first 120 levels and is very, very close to them after that.

Fixers, docs, nt's, crats, mp's: In so far as you can even consider them ranged weapon classes as with the exception of fixers I don't really think of them that way as their primary strength lies not in ranged weapons but in heals, nukes or pets. (Or in the case of pets at least is supposed to be in that )

These classes
a. are all support classes
b. all have other things going for them

Some of them need some love yes (lowlevel nt's and highlevel MP's come to mind), however I see no reason to boost them vs other professions in anything that is not their primary attribute, iow crit chance - direct ranged weapon damage output is certainly not what they need a boost in compared to other professions.

[Succubia]

Another solution:
Leave LLTS as they are but make it so crit buffs/bonus can't stack, take whichever is the highest between items and buffs.
Someone with a 15% scope (if he's not MA) would never go higher and MAs would be limited to 24% crit with UVC.

[Canto]

MAs and Agents should have a maximum greater crit chance than other professions of no more than 5-10%. Anything greater(including the status quo) is absurd. The game forces all to use weapons; weapons revolve around crit chance. Though it is asinine to claim that any one PROFESSION has an inherent right to crit more, it is reasonable, and subtly different, to claim that certain MA and Agent NANO LINES, to be effective, require superior crit chance.

There should be a crit cap; it's funny to hear folks beat around the bush on this and refuse to address the issue head-on. The cap should allow MAs and Agents to be supreme among crit dealers with the supremacy measured in a very small amount of % points.

[Phione]

1. Marginal Deminishing return on the crit chance beyond certain crit chance, such as 15% or so.
2. Before you even say make Scopes Range only, give melee users the weapon damage advantage they deserve.

[______________Othgar]

Originally posted by Hayake


What some people here propose is no scopes anymore for ma, meaning an ma will have a max crit chance of
24% (uvc) + 4% (tts) + 1% (grinning hunter) + 2% (2 globes):

total 31 %

Let's take your doc for example: you would like it so you can have 15% (old scope) + 7% MoP + 4% TTS + 1% (grinning) +2% (2 globes)

Total 29 %

Yuo forgot the 8% you can get from the new VE scopes.. They arent changing them so an MA would in effect be:

31% + 8% = 39%

[________InfamousDuck]

You also didnt add in the extreme crit increase you get from flurry of blows. MA's use this with the torture tool or the bear claws and make you crit a lot more. I dueled an enforcer with an 8% crit scope and a 1050 attack rating; I had 1070 evades on half agg. With flurry of blows he critted me 5 out of 7 hits so i know flurry is one hell of a crit modifier.

[Phione]

err.. extrem you say??? let me tell you something
It lasts, accordingly, 15 secs, by somewhere between 10~20% (let's say 20). That's not even close to MA's UVC or ppl with ELLTS... It's not permanent!
jeez... use your head more...

[kylee]

Originally posted by Halfdeck
Maybe this isnt the time for people to demand more nerfs, but think about it. MA's already have crit chance that are beyond anyone else's reach. This scope nerf will nerf all profs but impact the MA's the least, making it even harder to fight against them in PvP. If you REALLY care, then help those of us against the scope nerf to get it through FC's heads that they should leave the scopes alone. Don't shrug off the scope nerf then turn around and flame people for wanting an equal footing with MAs.

If they just left scopes alone, no one would be asking them to be made range weps only.


Half

You've gotta be kidding me, how is me losing my 15% scope and my river going to make me harder to kill in PVP when you don't lose anything at all? Not only are they nerfing my LLTS, theyre making my UVC unusable with ranged weapons.... Of course everyone is gonna love this idea, if it doesn't nerf them.

Gawd, give me some drains and roots so I can have equal footing with a trader... Then I can drain and zone like you :P

[Mena]

yah MA's arent the only melee users here, making them range only pretty much only makes Enf's the ones without extra crit, which they already nerfed our blood bats so forget joo guys! nerf it all or leave em alone, forget this range only crap.

-Mena
186 Solitus Enf, RK2
Applicant of Total Chaos

[Phione]

Don't forget MA docs and MA engies... they will be, along with enfs and Melee Advs, hurt even more than the supposedly "overpowered" ppl.

[________InfamousDuck]

Originally posted by Phione
err.. extrem you say??? let me tell you something
It lasts, accordingly, 15 secs, by somewhere between 10~20% (let's say 20). That's not even close to MA's UVC or ppl with ELLTS... It's not permanent!
jeez... use your head more...

Damn quit whining. You have been doing it on the forums all day. When your running UVC 24%, 15%, 4%, 2%, 1% and 20 from flurry thats 66% for 20 seconds! and nearly 50% after that....how much bull**** is that?

[Phione]

First of all, it's 15~16% (the highest you may use), for 15 seconds.
Second, I can tell you that I can care less about MAs, but I'm talking about Enforcers.
Does Enforcers have UVC? Without that 8% crit from my VE, 1hb would be useless, period. The only good 1hb available is Alloy/Pipe, and without good crit chance, they're junk.
Sure, we can get 16% more crit for 15 secs, but after that?? it locks the skill for 2min30 seconds, meaning we'll need to wait a while 2 minute and 15 seconds. And you call that a good thing?
Also to those who complained about Flurry not giving a negative effect.. it does, it increases your agg/def, which makes you even easier to get crit at.