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Thread: More info on LLTS nerf

  1. #81
    Originally posted by Jinx

    Erhem, it's only locked-supply cause you made it so.
    Sadly, I think using logic with FC devs is a lost cause. Nerfing is easier than thinking out a problem.

  2. #82
    Hey if people get money back....can I have the cash I paid for all those MA crit / MP pet nanos I can`t cast anymore....

    Just kidding Cz

    Agent RK-2

  3. #83
    I think it's a mistake. You feel we're critting too much on mobs in mission but we're forced to fight green/oranges for the whole career untill we're 200. All of your higher mobs RM/Ace can take the beating of a high level team and are designed that way. The problem is that theres no reason to fight them because a green/orange will give you about the same XP. Rather than give us reason to fight harder mobs you plan to take out our ability totally.
    I think you could fix a majority of your problems by introducing RM's in 170+ misisons and ace in 180+ . And do somethign to make a level 180 guy not want to fight 160 missions.

    Couldnt you solve this by adding another factor in for how a team gets XP in lower misisons?
    Aces/RM's can take a beating EVEN with a fully crit buffed team and I think their XP reward is fair per/time . but the XP/time of and easy "Vet/master" is too great and Risk is too low. which in turn means everyone fights them.

    Dont nerf the symptom.. nerf the problem. (like someone stated)

    Even in a level 200 missions there are normally more vets than RM/aces . .. thats silly and pointless. Heck honestly I solo level 206 all the time and there are more vets than RM/Ace.

  4. #84
    constructive comment:

    adding a +AMS bonus or similar aggdef adjustment would be a viable adjustment, changing the RI PENALTIES would be too offsetting IMO (and a rather uninspired solution).

    annoying comment:


    come on already.....the "known bug" list must be quite a hefty tome by now....what is the motivation behind fixing the CRIT issue YET again when pet pathing is still pathetic, charms are buggy, NCU buff cannot be recharged, many many weapons have bugged inits, Yalm bugs still persist, phantom damage from mobs, not to mention that the AO community has basically given your "outdoor hunting" patch a vote of no confidence after 2 weeks.....the list is endless and I simply cannot go on :P

    plz fix bugs, plz stop the nerfing (if only becuase you have BETTER things to fix, namely BUGS)
    Auri Sacra Fames!

    Specialone Clan Fixer RK-2
    Spatialone Clan Bureaucrat RK-2

  5. #85
    here is an issue that I'd like brought up for the devs:

    At the moment, crits guns are the best method of PvM'ing at high lvls. Going to the new camps will show you that the only way to do any real dmg to these mobs is to crit on them or to cycle special-specific guns. Have the devs considered how this nerf would affect PvM? Because for many of us, it simply makes killing tough mobs much harder.

  6. #86
    Its the classic battle all over again.

    Consider this, for a long time 1 year+ llts were easily _EASILY_ attainable, it was not a rare item like EoT that some like to compare it to (or other dragon parts, houses etc etc) it is now however, is that fair to new players?

    I do not agree with the n00b mentality, at the end of the day everybody should have the same chance!

    I do think IPR is in order in some way, I also think they should start dropping again like they used to, either before or after the nerf.

  7. #87
    You're right in one thing, fsk47. The LLTS were easy to find for 7-8 months, most everyone used them. How is it possible that the dev team just now discovered that they see ppl critting too much against mobs? Now when they are really rare and most of the good LLTS have gone out of circulation? I can't understand that.

    And there is still nobody who has managed to find holes in my theory that it would be better to lower the general crit chance, before considering bonuses for nanos and equiped items, instead of nerfing a "treasured" item.

    It would for sure have the desired effect of lowering the amount of crits on mobs and crits would be less of an issue in PvP. Is it that the idea is too simple?

  8. #88
    jayhawk, im not sure i understand what it is you wanna do. 15% crit chance is 15% crit chance, what is it you wanna decrease for 15% to be less then 15%? Please explain closer it might be a good idea i just dont get it yet

  9. #89

    Re: More info on LLTS nerf

    Originally posted by Cz

    The reason for the nerf is twofold;
    1. People simply crit too much against mobs. This is based on both observing players and testers, and internal experience.
    Ever heard of UVC ?
    MAs use both UVC+Scope, this changes not a thing, they will lose 7% crit modifier from 39%, thats roughly 1/6 crit less, yeah, that will help...not.
    But all other classes lose 7% from 15% thats basically a 1/2 reduction.
    See some difference there ? Anything strikes your eye FC ? No ? Obviously not, otherwise you would not have come up with a stupid plan like this.

    You solve nothing, zip, you only raise the gap between MAs and the rest of AO, making MA finally the only useful profession out there and reduce the solo capability of all other professions.

    2. It's very unbalancing in PvP to have a locked-supply scope which gives large benefits compared to the alternative.
    No one EVER supported the stop in drops of the old scope, the reason why you don't start letting them drop again, is that Funcom developers seem to be scared to admit on doing mistakes and will never, ever admit having done something wrong in the past, leaving idiotic design messups like this in game forever.

    What is so hard in making them drop again ? Nothing.
    Right, only thing preventing that, is the fear of the developers to admit having done a mistake. And it was a mistake, one of the biggest in the history of AO.

    Let me explain what your change will do, it will unbalance everything even more, making MAs stronger and making classes with low attack rating more or less completely useless. Additionally your genius plan will remove effectively all fast weapons from being used, except for MAs, who still can use Rivers and Ithacas with no real change to their crit chance basically.

    Balance is:

    1. Make old LLTS drop again
    2. Change LLTS to work only on long range weapons
    3. Make UVC work only on Fists and weapons with MA requirements
    4. Introduce crit modifying items for melee weapons with profession requirement Enforcer/Adventurer

    What you do is poking around in the code with no clue or benefit to anyone or anything, making MAs once more stronger than everyone else.
    Last edited by Greystar; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 15:16:33.
    RK1 Guild Apocalypse

    Dillon "Duradas" Belote, Fixer
    Kiyoko "Selarana" Vallone, Meta Physicist
    Donald "Jorman" Dublin, Bureaucrat
    Burl "Gnorrg" Marinos, Enforcer
    Florence "Florania" Aronstein, Doctor
    RK3, Arnold "Gideon" Reineman, Enforcer

  10. #90
    Well yes Jayhawk, a hole in your theory would be unbalance. Players who have a scopes would be the only ones critting at all, making it unfair for players who dont have 150m to buy a 11% scope. =] I think thats the reason eh

    And CZ. We crit too much!?!? Ghad do you guys even relize how long it takes to get ONE level even as low as about 170. It takes FOREVER, we don't crit enough, your saying when we do crit every 6 or 7 hits on a mob its to much? Do you have any lvl 175+ chars that you've leveld from lvl1?=p You have devote your life to this game if you wanna be 200. And so when you ask a person to devote thier life to a game how can you expect them not to complain.

    Not to mention some of the new boss mobs. Lets see you even move "The One's" Hp bar without a crit.... You hit fer freakin 18!
    Last edited by Quamander; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 15:12:09.
    Themakerr --- Quame --- Quamy - Docjeckyl

    Proud member of Legion

    Themakerr's Trade Skillz!
    "Doing nothing sucks when you have nothing to do" - Quamie

  11. #91
    Ok, what I am thinking is this:

    Let's say that normal crit chance has a fictional value of 100. Lower that value to 50. 15 percent of 50 is less than 15 percent of 100.


  12. #92


    Originally posted by fsk47

    I do not agree with the n00b mentality, at the end of the day everybody should have the same chance!

    I do think IPR is in order in some way, I also think they should start dropping again like they used to, either before or after the nerf.
    I totally agree with you. I hope Cz will read your thread. If you decide to nerf these items so they're not _that_ unbalacing as they were, why shouldnt they start dropping again from some unique mob?

    nerf this item so its not as powerfull, but still better than VE => ppl will get mad + unbalanced situation.

    nerf this item so its just as powerfull, in some other way => unbalanced situation.

    My ideas:
    (unrealistic) just make them start dropping again => Balanced, but you dont like that for some reason. only some mad ppl (but they wouldnt quit)

    Nerf them a bit (ex. psy init and a lil lower %) but make them a rare drop from unique spawn or something. => Some ppl a bit mad (but wouldnt quit) AND balanced situation.

    Any chance of one of these scenarios?
    Last edited by Diophant; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 15:23:19.

  13. #93
    Originally posted by Greystar

    Balance is:

    1. Make old LLTS drop again
    2. Change LLTS to work only on long range weapons
    3. Make UVC work only on Fists and weapons with MA requirements
    4. Introduce crit modifying items for melee weapons with profession requirement Enforcer/Adventurer

    What you do is poking around in the code with no clue or benefit to anyone or anything, making MAs once more stronger than everyone else.
    Themakerr --- Quame --- Quamy - Docjeckyl

    Proud member of Legion

    Themakerr's Trade Skillz!
    "Doing nothing sucks when you have nothing to do" - Quamie

  14. #94

    Post My opinion

    Concerning the upcoming change of the old style Low light targeting scopes.

    As an old time player my self, I have been through a lot with you guys. We have had our share of bug testing, disconnects and frustrating times throughout the history of Anarchy Online. We were once rewarded a backpack for this.

    Now recently, Funcom has announced that they are planning to change (nerf) the old LLTSs to be more similar to the new scopes. Now this makes us all wonder why they kept them for so many months in the first place, after stopping them from dropping. Funcom even said in the patch "treasure the ones (LLTS) you have ...". Now that doesn't sound like a warning they will be nerfed anytime, does it?

    Actions like this makes you really wonder if the developers have a long term work plan at all. And if they even test things out before putting them into play. The fact that the LLTS even work on melee based weapons proves this in my humble opinion. It's obviously a major bug that has been totally overlooked for over 1 year. It's not even a bug really; it is just overlooked and forgotten.

    Funcom obviously wants their players to score criticals less often. First they made the MA critbuffs self-only and added another line of outside buffs with much lower chance of crits. But the problem will still be there, dear Funcom. You see, we, the players are so dependant on scoring crits to be able to hit special monsters it's become a joke. Either you miss the mob, or you hit it for 2650 damage. Now you tell me where the logic in that lies! Oh and I don't think I have to tell you that we hit every 10th strike. And that's from people with over 1000 attack rating. I won't even go into the counters we NTs are seeing

    Now if the system was adjusted properly, and we did more of a consistent damage over time, not so damn reliant on crits, you would never had this uproar for the coming nerf (or change). Make the normal damage higher, and the critical damage lower, then critting will be a nice addition, not an all-or-nothing game-mechanic we are all so addicted to.

    You have some serious re-writing of code to do, Funcom if you truly want this game to be balanced and fun to play. You see, getting nerfed IS NO FUN! We tell you this time and time again, yet you completely fail to understand what we mean. Change is good, nerf is bad. Too bad an adjustment of the LLTS will not fix this by far. The whole system is fubar as far as I and many with me can see.

    Yes I still play and will more or less happily play on, but being repeatedly struck by the stick we loathe the most, will in the end send me to another place ¡K together with my credit card

    I hope some of this message gets through to the ones pulling the strings, I do (for some strange reason) still have faith in you

    Phelsior 174 NT
    President of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Born under the storm of June 2001

  15. #95

    i'm not a high level char, but....

    i did just spend a quarter of my fortune on a llts about two weeks ago. the feature that i like that i hope you don't remove: the night vision effect. some of those caves are just too damn dark without it, especially if i'm looking for an item.

    i won't complain too much about losing some crit % points, although i will miss them. what would help me miss them less:

    1. damage bonuses. not like the standard fixer ones that i have, i mean like +100 or something silly like that. maybe even more. when i do normal damage for about 600, burst for 1500 and crit for about the same, i'd like to see my regular damage go up a little to compensate for the thousands of hp less i will deal per fight. or else, i'll die.

    2. significantly reduced ranged init modifiers. obviously, if i'm not critting as much, i want to shoot regular shots more. maybe even a ranged init bonus?

    3. agg modifier? haven't been lucky enough to find numbers detailing how this helps, but every time i get shadow rift of the eagle, it feels like i'm shooting constantly. maybe that's my imagination....

    meeting all three of these to a satisfactory degree would make me keep the scope, i think. otherwise, i'd ask for ip resets. i still use the gun that i think the designers wanted my character class to use, so i only need it for ws and ee, but i can understand why other people would want more than 2 ip resets.

    one question for the group: where can i look to find out what a ve scope would look like for a specified ql? i want to see what my llts would be like post nerf.

  16. #96
    It seems that there are heavy support from Funcom's customers that this nerf is stupid and that the scopes should just be re-introduced. Maybe it would be a nice time to actually show that they listen to the customers?

  17. #97
    If you are going to nurf them, make them drop again. They will no longer be game inballancing so there should be no reason why they can't return to the game.

  18. #98
    Jayhawk, ok got it now. Don't know if i think its such a good idea tho. I'm just glad they did'nt do this silently, we would just have seen a drop in crit rate.

    It feels like VE users will suffer from this idea to, with those numbers a 8% VE will in essence be a 4% VE, or are you thinking only lowering the numbers on llts's?

  19. #99


    Don t nerf them plz i own a lot of them ........


    OTs....We fight???
    Junior "Tradition" Rm

  20. #100
    Good thing you understood, fsk47, I probably wasn't very clear in the first place. However, don't you think my idea would be better to rectify the "problems" that Cz listed in the first post on this page? I am quite sure it wouldn't have caused the same riot.

    And it's only the old LLTS that will be nerfed. They will have the same bonus that the VEs have if I've understood correctly.


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