More info on LLTS nerf

[Xeni]

Originally posted by aaronb
Oh, and please don't remove the visual effect entirely as suggested by others. Having it optional would be good, but removing it entirely would make the game unplayable for me at night (yes, even with night vision). Not sure why I have problems here, but I need the LLTS + night vision to see anything.

The night vision effect, making all greenish, can be turned off in visuals menu. Think it was the show other effects box. Before it takes effect you need to zone or relog i think.

[Xeni]

Originally posted by Tedric


Ok, I was quoting from some other thread where someone calculated bigger percentages, could be they were wrong.

You missed out the base crit chance i seen ppl say is as high as 5%, but i dont think its higher than 1%.
Further there is Take the Shot nano, which adds 4%, and grinning hunter/sabretooth which adds 1%

[______________Redman]

damege bonus you mean add to all offence?? i hope

[Deskclerk]

a full ipr reset would be needed or at leat a tradeskill & ranged weapon reset with inits reset

and this is my strong argument why

when the ipr was put in place the one time only was because so many nerfs had occurred that funcom realized it would not be fair to old players to have to use thier ipr points to make up for the past mistakes of funcom with various nerfs. this would create an unfair advantage to new players who had not used ip on items that were nerfed before they even played, thus giving them an unfair advantage of having more free ipr points.

it has been asumed that funcom after the total ipr would not nerf items again in such a way to affect so many players and so many skills.

so therefore in conclusion because you have chosen to nerf an item that affects so many skills you need to 1) give everyone plenty of ipr points to effectivly change weapons with out loosing ipr points 2) a total ipr

you must realize that by promising to leave these items in the game and then by removing them later you have in essence violated a trust that players had and then they made choices based on what was available to them and what they thought was going to stay, you changed the item you should compensate and give people the choice to keep the scopes equiped, and the choice to be able to change weapon skills.

MY raids were nerfed with the MA crit only nerf, but they were still useful with my scope, now they will be totaly worthless

that includes

pistol (maxed)
shotgun (maxed)
flingshot
ranged init (maxed)
weapon smith
electronics smith
Multiranged (maxed)

thats a lot of blue skills maxed for me personaly

[______________Hayake]

Originally posted by Xeni


You missed out the base crit chance i seen ppl say is as high as 5%, but i dont think its higher than 1%.
Further there is Take the Shot nano, which adds 4%, and grinning hunter/sabretooth which adds 1%

TTS and grinning hunter are not what I would call permanent crit chance things that an ma can cast on him/herself.

[tinytoon]

Cz, this is sad....so sad...

FC decide everything, why don´t u just give us a vote system?

U checked how many replies u got from ppls who still want the scope in game? I think it was 24 pages or something...Then check the other thread with suggestions....u see any difference? I do...

[Spluggorth]

"If it aint Broken, Dont fix it!"
FC make a poll...se how many wants this change and how many that doest, that way you can be certain that you get the correct response and what the majority of the playerbase wants ( cause you DO want them to stick around dont ya?)

Frankly the best solution i can come to think of is making it Unique and Nodrop.

that way all the very very highlvls chars still has their scopes, so no new upcommers will ever stand a chance of gettin one.
then again at that lvl you can easily(kinda) get a high ql Vs scope.
AND most importantly...These scopes will not be used on "twinks".
hard to get a nodrop / no sell item for a twink dont ya think?

from my point of view i must say that crits in missions are NOT bountyfull as you make it sound...Mobs crits just as much unless you have serious Evades. I Take it this would mean that Mobs "scopes" would be nerfed to?? nah didnt think so!

IF you to your better knowledge STILL go throu with this i have 2
advices to give ya.
1: Fire your Dev team and look for a new one.
2: Total ipr, that can be done without Deequipping!
why?? well take me for example..yes im running around with an OE ithaca and a 3% LLTS.
however..this is my choice..gun works like shiet but still crits are good, and since im a trader i get off OE after some draining.
anyways..This took me some serious hard work and running around for special buffs to get on...now..i might still want to use the gun but loose the scope, so i would still want to ipr the LLTS skills...however..that would meen i would have to spend another whole DAy looking for the correct buffs, have them in place so they dont run out and all...

Are you doin Anything to even TRY to keep us happy or is that just not in the agenda?
Missions WORK darnit! pvp kinda Works darnit...leave it be!
go find a bugg instead of remaking something nobody wants you to remake.

nuf said.

[Xeni]

Originally posted by Hayake


TTS and grinning hunter are not what I would call permanent crit chance things that an ma can cast on him/herself.

My fault, missed the permanent part, im to addicted to numbers
Anyway they for sure make sure they get it if they have the opertunity and the space in their ncu

[______________Hayake]

Originally posted by Tedric


Straw man detected.

A real-world house has intrinsic value. An in-game item like the scope has immensely artificial value to players purely because of the (also artificial) rarity. Of course FC contributed to that value by making an item that is both extremely powerful and rare (always a bad combo) - but that does not mean the "street" value of the LLTS is anything FC needs to pay much attention to.

...and by the way, if you buy a big expensive house and the governement decides to build a road through it, you *will* get a fairly poor compensation in most countries. That's unfortunately the way a lot of governments operate. But that's also another subject.

Over here the goverment gives a decent market price when they decide to demolish your house. Actually, it's usually a bit higher than the market value.

What you fail to acknowledge is that for that house you would have worked a long time to be able to pay it. A lot of people did the same thing for those scopes.

I agree that in game things are purely virtual and have no value outside of the game. The efforts made into acquiring it are however anything but artificial and very much comparable to real life.

[iguanoid]

What is the point??

Funcom develops a game concept that was superb, albeit bugged and hindered by development problems. Instead of trying to fix the bugs, they spend all their time trying to create new ones. No regard for anyones opinions by all accounts, just a price check on every stupid idea they have before they implement it anyway.

Why? whats the point? please can someone explain to me why it makes more sense to nerf and remove and modify items for the worse all the time. Making it harder to level wont keep our accounts open longer, and doesnt represent more income for the company, it angers and frustrates the dedicated AO gamers, and will ultimately be the death of the game.

You cant change the rules we all play by on a whim, and not expect any lashback. Stop moving the proverbial goalposts and work some goddamn content into the game, rather than working out what content to remove next.

After 300 + lvls of playing i expect to be more powerful than the guy who has only played for 40 levels.

I guess the sad truth of the matter is that the forums and nerf debates see more action from the player base than the actual game these days, which isnt a good sign. When the only thing that captures our imagination is what is gonna be spoilt next, rather than what has been implimented which makes things more fun...

[_______Tinned Haggis]

If the nerfing goes ahead couldnt you balance the item by making it along the line of the fixer NCUHI, but adding to combat skills instead and the boost to these skills dependant upon QL of the scope. This would retain the items preciousness and would both increase attack ratings or allow people to squeeze into that little bit higher QL weapon. I know this doesnt help out MA class much, but perhaps you could compensate this by making the boost to MA skill a little bit greater than this.

I like the idea of removing init penalties and maybe adding a bonus to inits.

[____________Dominata]

This nerf has to be tied into the release of the booster pack since the addition of land control means there will be a lot more PvP going on.
It was said that if you choose not to buy the booster it wouldn't affect you in a negative way but you would not get all the benefits that the towers give. Fine, I have no problem with that.
I don't expect to gain anything for something I do not want to participate in but nerfing existing items already in the game is wrong, since it affects the whole community, even if you do not own the booster.

They say that PvP is part of the reason but I do not believe they would have chosen to do this if they were not releasing the booster. Not many people PvP now, certainly not enough to warrant a nerf of this proportion...
Also, the 14.8 patch should be about ready for live at the time of release for the booster pack, it might even be the patch that will surely be needed for those of us opting not to buy the booster.

I hate this tactic FC employs of blowing smoke into our faces by not telling us quite the whole truth. It is destroying the trust that should exist between company and client and is one of the reason why a lot of us feel more and more disappointed with the whole game.

I never liked the idea of booster packs but I was fine with it since it wouldn't affect me in a negative way. But now it is getting clear that it will indeed affect me and that just makes me question the ability of FC's developers even further.

[______________Norton]

Some random thoughts.

For most players (or at least most posters here), it seems the mechanics of combat are fast, high damage. They get the best armor they can, and may take evades to a level where they don't get critted too often, but the defensive abilities are always seen as secondary to the offensive abilities. And given the orientation of many professions (mostly offensive, defense is IP costly) and the nature of PvM combat as you get closer and closer to 200 (where battles don't last more than 5-8 hits per group member), it is hard to fault them. Removing the init penalties from the scopes significantly alters this. The weapons that were good prior to the change (fast, low damage, high crit) are no longer viable because the slow weapons are now just as fast and do more damage on regular and critical hits. The ability to reduce the aggro bar, while nice, is secondary to the ability to dish out damage. And in order to dish out damage under the new rules, a new weapon has to be used - understandably upsetting those players who were optimized for the old rules.

My class (MA) has green defensive skills. I have them all maxed. I use a lower level VE (2%, -77 inits) so I can keep the aggro bar at a reasonable level (55-60%). A significant number of attacks made against me do not hit because of this. But I only play in the PvM world, so even for me it might be better to go the usual route of high crit, full aggro bar (under the old rules). Under the new rules (no init penalties), if I could obtain an LLTS it would clearly be better than any VE I could get my hands on. I would be worried about the effects this would have on PvP - being able to crit as much as the next fellow (LLTS vs. VE) but him not being able to hit me due to my high evades and lowered aggro bar. If you do go down this route, please make certain that the "new LLTS" is not making things worse in PvP. You've seen the reaction to the current LLTS nerf announcement, imagine having to nerf the nerf.

Question: what is the motivation behind the possible ranged init bonus (compared to the removal of melee/physical init penalties)? The current LLTS treats all three of those equally; the VE does as well (and has a small nano init penalty for most QLs). Is the proposed bonus to ranged init due to: 1.the name of the device being used (scope), 2.a perceived superiority of melee damage over ranged damage, or 3.another reason altogether?

[_____________Joaquin]

For those People that Want IPR why not just make another Full Ip Reset for those who want it....dont give more IPR points out reset the hole thing. As some Crit Guns/Weapons need 1 skill some 3 just be fair to everyone and offer us a Full IPR.

[Xeni]

Originally posted by Norton
Some random thoughts.

For most players (or at least most posters here), it seems the mechanics of combat are fast, high damage. They get the best armor they can, and may take evades to a level where they don't get critted too often, but the defensive abilities are always seen as secondary to the offensive abilities.

The reason offensive is primary , is because a team of 6 players who has priorized offensive skills would do much better and get through a mission, or what else they are doin, alot faster than a team of 6 players who have priorized defensive. This because the nature of doin missions and hunting now, is that team outnumber the mobs and hope we not get to many adds.

[____________Meligant]

Originally posted by Cz
Had a chat with a couple of the designers, and got more information. So here goes:

The reason for the nerf is twofold;
1. People simply crit too much against mobs. This is based on both observing players and testers, and internal experience.
2. It's very unbalancing in PvP to have a locked-supply scope which gives large benefits compared to the alternative.

...edited out for space...

Cz,

#1 concerns me. Isn't it already hard enough to solo "anything" in the game? Even with a higher chance to crit, a level 80 with a 6% scope can take 2-3 greens, 1 yellow enforcer, and has a 65% chance of taking most oranges.

This is from a soldier’s perspective. I don't mind you adding super bosses that require "grouping" and armies of guilds to take down but I do find my dislike of being able to log in and do something "solo" that isn't a waste of my time. Teaming is already 7 times faster! then solo play. So when I want to be a social outcast for a night because I only have 2 hours to play and can't wait 1 hour to get a team going, I should be forced to level 10X slower...that is if I don't die?

Please ask your designers if they expect people to be able to solo 60% missions without having to zone out to survive every other encounter?

[___________Firedrake]

Originally posted by Dominita
This nerf has to be tied into the release of the booster pack since the addition of land control means there will be a lot more PvP going on.

I agree that this is probably due to the booster pack, as well as the complaints of a handfuls of whining PvPers. But if FC keeps nerfing at the rate it has been, they won't have anyone to sell the booster pack to. I also doubt that we'll see more than a few % change in folks doing PvP. Some folks simply do not care for it and won't do it, period.

As for compensation for this nerf, I think FC should give folks who have scopes being nerfed 1 month free AO for each % point nerfed on their scopes. This might help to make up for the time and effort they spent to get the scope or earn the creds to get it. An IPR should also be made available again when this goes into effect.

No matter what FC does, if they go thru with this nerf, I don't think they'll ever regain the trust and respect from the players who have these, and even from many who don't.

[Pacman]

Nerf...
Im in this talk way too late.. i know that.

But this is just too much my Norweigan friends..

First of making a promise to have an object to stay in the game, and then Nerf it later should be out of the Question NO MATTER WHAT!

In our Guild (MoK) ppl have used so much gametime and effort in getting these things that you wont even believe it.. Im (i see now) lucky to only have a LLTS +7.

Have you ever thought of what would happen to a RL company if they did something like this to their costumers/partners?

you might be voted as the best MMMMPORGPH or what ever... but i dont think that award would have been given if they had known, that if ya play this game for a loooong time, and find the goodies in it... youll be nerfed down. How do you expect me to use gametime in getting a goodie like for ex. the Blood bat... When i already now have the feeling that i might be TOO good for ya.. and then see it Nerfed later? Is it alowed at all to BE Neophyte in ths game????

Drop the "in stone idea/står skrevet i fjeldene?" and dont change a good D*** thing! Set the rules .. and let us play the game...

Combat
General of MoK

[________________Jinx]

Originally posted by Cz

2. It's very unbalancing in PvP to have a locked-supply scope which gives large benefits compared to the alternative.

Erhem, it's only locked-supply cause you made it so.

[Haizen]

Originally posted by Ryuzaki
ok here is an easy solution for the programmers and the community


make the old llts NODROP

thats it, simple effective


nodrop ---> old players leaving ---> llts vanish

Good point. This should be how all unbalancing items are handled.
you never miss what you never had...

Darkian
(never used scopes)