There is no penalty to nano inits anymore when the QL get up to QL250 versionOriginally posted by Krokus1
....when this initially happened, they added the nano init penalty to the "new" scopes...like a slap in the face..it wasnt enough to remove the old ones and just put in another that had a different curve...
Xeni - Buvez engagé, buvez Mecca-Cola !!
Mimic:The Essential Nanos
Recomended sounds:
Secret Sound Service(NEW!), Palace of Pleasure,
KAADA, Palace of Pleasure, Heavy Radio
Originally posted by aaronb
Oh, and please don't remove the visual effect entirely as suggested by others. Having it optional would be good, but removing it entirely would make the game unplayable for me at night (yes, even with night vision). Not sure why I have problems here, but I need the LLTS + night vision to see anything.
turn up gamma on your monitor.
what about that tattoo? ma only adds to crit?...heard of it never seen oneOriginally posted by Hayake
eeuh that's a bit exaggerating not
best possible permanent setup for crit chance:
24% uvc
15% old scope
2x globe of clarity: 2%
total 41% (with 15% scope and 2 globes being extremely rare, I kinda doubt there are 5 players on the planet that have all those).
That's a long shot from the 60-70% you mention.
That is a silly comment purely made out of jealousy.Originally posted by Tedric
BTW, saying "I paid 200 million for this, FC must compensate me!" is stupid. *You* decided to pay that amount, your fault. The only in-game price for the item is what the store gives you. I don't see why FC has to take artificially inflated "street" prices into account in anything.
Imagine you buy a huge expensive house, the next day the government decides they are going to build a road through it.
What you say is well bad luck for me I guess, no I'll accept this 1000$ as compensation for that house that I paid a few millions for, after all it was my choice (silly me) to pay a few millions for it didn't I?
Been there, done that. I've adjusted all that I can without going out and buying new hardware.Originally posted by Emiko
turn up gamma on your monitor.
correct, however, every scope (even 249) below 250 has it...and im in a 3% llts, not a 8% VE...i guess you missed that...its a major setback that the llts doesnt have, at any crit chance or QLOriginally posted by Xeni
There is no penalty to nano inits anymore when the QL get up to QL250 version
Ok, I was quoting from some other thread where someone calculated bigger percentages, could be they were wrong.Originally posted by Hayake
eeuh that's a bit exaggerating not
best possible permanent setup for crit chance:
24% uvc
15% old scope
2x globe of clarity: 2%
total 41% (with 15% scope and 2 globes being extremely rare, I kinda doubt there are 5 players on the planet that have all those).
That's a long shot from the 60-70% you mention.
I any case, the problem seems to be the cumulative effect of many crit-enhancers, not this on in particular. I don't see just the high-end 15% by itself as being unbalanced.
But as Cz said, the designers have simply been seeing "too much crits against mobs" compared to what they want. If they see a need to reduce that (and hopefully also balance the mobs in return), I don't have a problem with that.
A couple of points:
If you want to keep the value of the old LLTS, you can't make them drop again. New supply = less value of old supply.
Also, by doing this, you remove the diversity. A lot of characters use the "slow and steady" X-3. As it requires ~650 ranged init to be at max. efficiency, you can't equip much of a LLTS or VE-TS without losing damage/time. However, if for instance a ql200 ELLTS gets 8% crit, +200 ranged init and still have the AS bonus and some damage.... well, my X-3 damage will surely get an INCREASE, not a decrease... further moving the bias towards slow and steady and totally ruining fast & crit.
Do the same calculations with beams, and you'll see some happy 2HB enfs...
Please don't flame me for telling this, even though it's potensial increase in dam for X-3 and beam-users...
Support to Noer
Without drawing this to far from topic:
We are still in the situation, that fast/low damage weapons are not viable/comparable to slow/high damage weapons mainly because you can raise the Inits so high, that the there is actually no benefit of using a fast weapon (high level game). As reluctantly as I have to say it, the old scopes were/are one of the very few ways to make fast/low weapons viable (Raid, e.g.).
Some comment:
FC is going to reduce the number of crits/fight, has to, maybe. Unfortunately a percentage of existing weapons relies on a large number of crits (player view). Combined with the fix of the inits (VERY, VERY IMPORTANT) this might change the combat behaviour quite drastically. I fear this could be a further nail (the last?) on the coffin of the pistols and comparable weapons (fast/slow). Not that this is too dramatic - the majority of weapons is ignored anyway (shame) - but it might reduce the number of viable options even further - which is a bad tendency, in my eyes. So please, consider such effects and test (if possible) beforehand.
Players like to have fun and having fun in an environment where killing 'objects' is the only way to advance implies effectiveness with your weapons - some of us don't have time to try 19 out of 20 weapons to find the one working.
So long,
Max(imilian)
100% curious
Originally posted by Tedric
But as Cz said, the designers have simply been seeing "too much crits against mobs" compared to what they want. If they see a need to reduce that (and hopefully also balance the mobs in return), I don't have a problem with that.
sadly you missed it...they are seeing too much critting against the mobs as they exist now...removing the crits will (lol) make you crit the correct amount against mobs that exist now...thus no mob nerfing....
you didnt expect funcom to make mobs easier when removing player power did you? ..hehe, where have you been? this is funcom :/
Straw man detected.Originally posted by Hayake
That is a silly comment purely made out of jealousy.
Imagine you buy a huge expensive house, the next day the government decides they are going to build a road through it.
What you say is well bad luck for me I guess, no I'll accept this 1000$ as compensation for that house that I paid a few millions for, after all it was my choice (silly me) to pay a few millions for it didn't I?
A real-world house has intrinsic value. An in-game item like the scope has immensely artificial value to players purely because of the (also artificial) rarity. Of course FC contributed to that value by making an item that is both extremely powerful and rare (always a bad combo) - but that does not mean the "street" value of the LLTS is anything FC needs to pay much attention to.
If the game economy wasn't so screwed due to past (and current?) exploits and high-lvl players tending to think on 10 mil as pocket change, the situation would not be this bad. But that's another subject.
...and by the way, if you buy a big expensive house and the governement decides to build a road through it, you *will* get a fairly poor compensation in most countries. That's unfortunately the way a lot of governments operate. But that's also another subject.
Why isn't anyone commenting on the idea of lowering crit chances in general instead of lowering crit increase on scopes? If the reasoning behind the nerf is the one Cz stated I can see no better alternative. The items would still be unique, the ppl at Funcom would see less crits on mobs, the PvP playing field would be more balanced. No great flaws that I can see.
Jayhawk
Cz, could we have some more information about the "taboo" surrounding critical hits? We know the cause, but not the effect.
Will I be given a reason to keep my QL 200 ELLTS on, something worth the 250k IP or so I spent for it? Also, I'd like to point out that the QL 250 VE has no nano init penalty and can be equipped without any IP spent. I'm worried about this, and not sure if the designers know about the difference in IP cost.
Also, if my QL 200 is anything less than 8% critical chance, I'll prolly have to switch to a VE. Is it possible ALL the old scopes get an 8% critical chance, with the other bonuses scaling up to QL 200? Just a thought.
Last edited by kylee; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 12:24:53.
because this is how they think....its "set in stone" meaning the decision is made and come hell or high water, and no matter what anyone says, they will go through with it...thats how decisions are made there, when they set their minds to doing something, it just sets there, immobile and unable to change...Originally posted by Jayhawk
Why isn't anyone commenting on the idea of lowering crit chances in general instead of lowering crit increase on scopes? If the reasoning behind the nerf is the one Cz stated I can see no better alternative. The items would still be unique, the ppl at Funcom would see less crits on mobs, the PvP playing field would be more balanced. No great flaws that I can see.
Jayhawk
we the players are hoping they can do something to make the best of it...but what well end up with is a set of old scopes that are glorified 0% or 1% TIM scopes until QL 112...
like it or lump it, its whats happening thus is the way of funcom
I don't own a LLT Scope, and this isn't a post entirely focused on them, but: I have to agree that giving people 2 ipr points won't be enough for them to rebalance their characters. As has been mentioned plenty before there are guns that are relied on solely for crits. Prime example is the River Series 6. No crits and that is a crippling weapon choice to be stuck with.
What I don't understand is:- when there are major balance corrections made within the game, it will almost always make some playstyles, weapon choices and character skills become at best an annoyance; at worst a handicap. When major changes to skills, items or weapons are made, would it not be possible to issue a -full- IPR reset to those who are elligable to recieve it?
Anyway, to [e]llt scopes.
I'd like to pretend that critscopes aren't that big an issue, but I'm sure that it effects more than a minority of the playerbase. And these people have probably spent millions of creds (Credits = Player TIME + (sometimes) Player EFFORT) on [E]LLT Scopes.
I have to agree with Hayake that completely removing inits is probably going to be far more unbalancing than the current crit rates are. If any changes are made to inits I would try to suggest the penalty being lowered, but far from removed.
Crit rates; Well, I don't see the harm in giving them SOME benefit over VE's. Say, 2% aditional at QL 200? So the max crit bonus you can get from a VE is 8%, [E]LLTS 10%. Surely, that's not as unbalancing as 15%, and it's hardly a far cry from 8%. But there is still -a- crit benfit that [E]LLTS owners would still have over VE users. Just not the huge difference it was before.
Overall:
1/2 init penalties on [E]LLT Scope compared to a VE.
10% Crit on highest [E]LLT Scopes.
Slightly more range*
Damage Modifier (Comparable to a +damage nano of the same level).
And a bonus to some completely pointless skill that nobody owning a scope would use (Come on, you guys love doing that. Give them a +200 swimming bonus)
Alternatively I would suggest:
Do nothing to the scopes, and disallow MA's from using them. I personally don't see a -major- balance issue for LLT scopes besides those who can continually stack crit modifiers and get insanely high chances to crit. -That's- the thing I would disagree with.
* - Please keep in mind that range is of little benefit - It's a token bonus. Hard cap 40m really makes these modifiers pointless. I'm an NT, so I know this first hand T_T
Funcom feels players are critting too much on mobs huh? This implies that FC feels the players are taking the mobs down too fast, which in turn implies they feel players are getting xp too fast. So basically what FC wants is to slow the rate at which we lvl, by making it so that mobs take longer to kill.
When a team of 160-200 players fight a 189 mob, of course that mob will go down in a matter of seconds. We're talking about a mob that most of those players should be able to solo.
Of course noone wants to do ql 200+ missions when the xp received sucks in comparison to the time invested and on top of that the loot sucks.
FCs solution to this seems to be to lower the damage people do so that doing a 189 mission will take longer. But in the progress they forget what this will do to the people soloing missions, or the majority of players who are not powergamers, and don't have the time to do 6-10 BS missions every single day.
This is the trend i'm seeing, every single patch they nerf damage and/or make mobs harder.
They should just warn new players that if they don't play every day at least 5 hours they can forget about ever reaching lvl 200.
an option for the reskilling of your character if you used an old school scope.
a comment as to wether mob ac/health or fast weapons will be looked at. a note that this is done before shadowlands hits would help but just stating THAT it is looked at would be an immense relief.
increasing the armor level / health on opponents has been the quick and dirty solution to draw out combat in all mmorpgs that use a system based upon levels.
drawing out combat does not make it more challenging/intense and certainly not more fun.
now players are using weapons and armor close to their level and weapons appropriate to their class the field is open. do not fudge this opportunity please.
if you cant find any way to deal with it at least increase the xp reward from solo missions because if you are NOT with a team it takes ages to chip down a mob regardless of weapon type you use.
sept 03 - the day ao was keeled by sl.
gone now. byebye.
Why is such a big deal being made about compensation? Surely everyone who has one of these QL200 LLT Scopes knew that QL400 TSVE scopes were in the database, have better stats than the LLT Scopes Scopes and might have one day become available.
Well, it looks like they won't become available and totally destroy the usefulness of the LLT Scopes, but instead the LLT Scopes will be changed to put them on par with the QL100-QL250 TSVE Scopes
Last edited by Rhumak; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 12:44:38.
Jinx, gotta say. You hit it right on the nail there. As someone else wrote - Funcom are trying to cure the symptones not the disease.
~Lone
Say you visited the dragon every day for the last 90 days. Finally out of the horde of people that show up you WIN the prize! The dragon chest piece. 2 Weeks later you read that funcom thinks the dragon chest pieces are to powerful and be ill be nerfed down to what regular armor is but just a hair better.Originally posted by Rhumak
Why is such a big deal being made about compensation? Surely everyone who has one of these QL200 LLT Scopes knew that QL400 TSVE scopes were in the database, have better stats than the LLT Scopes Scopes and might have one day become available.
Well, it looks like they won't become available and totally destroy the usefulness of the LLT Scopes, but instead the LLT Scopes will be changed to put them on par with the QL400 TSVE Scopes
No compensation.
You enjoy that thought for awhile.
Elbo - LVL 220 Top of the line: Supreme Creator Engineer
Making 5 Gem Saba Bracers! Give tell in game!
Crat - LVL 209! Doc - LVL 170,MA - LVL 106,Fixer - LVL 103,Keeper - LVL 140,, MP - LVL 109, Shade - LVL 165
QFT: 1800+. EE: 2400+. ME: 2400+. Chem: 1800+ WS: 1900+. Psychology: 1800 Pharm: 1800
Making QL300 AI Armor and Weapons!
Posting Permissions
