Friday with(out) Means - Aug. 7th, 2009: how did this get here i am not good with com

[Kintaii]

While incentivizing people to team by offering increased loot chances isn't a bad idea in the slightest, it's also more or less one of those "band-aid" style fixes we really want to avoid. The main root of the problem is that an instance which was designed for six people can be done with less - Therein lies the real issue. The effort we're putting forth in regards to the profession balancing is designed to effect both PvM and PvP across the board, hopefully making PvM content more in-line with its original designs and, thusly, more in-line with its originally intended team requirements. =)

[Eventsbyjill]

Maybe I should have said that if you had the gear it at least meant that you completed the content..

[wormx]

yay... spending more time trying to get a team together because you have to have a full raidforce... While that was fun some years ago, the playerbase hasnt exactly increased... Need I say more?

[Ebondevil]

Shame on you. The ONLY thing... Some of us don't PvP yet we remain because of the storyline and the Roleplaying...

A few days ago you say you want to talk to the RP community, and then you turn around and spit on us.

Depends on how you read Kintaii's statement really, the way I basically read it was that the only thing that keeps a game running in the long term is the way that players interact with other players in the game, not how players interact with mobs or generated content.

This includes how people compete over PvM elements of the game, doing it with as few people as possible, as fast as possible etc, How people fight each other directly, the more classical view of PvP, and how they Roleplay with each other, that's still really Player on Player content.

Of course, you can go and get all upset about it if you want, and I can't speak for Kintaii, just saying how I interpreted what he said.

Still I think the way you reacted about what Kintaii said goes to show why there seems to be such a division between the RP community and others, if the majority of the RP community are as close minded as you seem to be.

Personally I don't see why a focus on Player on Player content would exclude Roleplay, and in fact by definition I would think it should most definitely include it.

[tlaski]

Entry for nightclub name contest: Acropolis

[Negs]

All you RPers need to start coming outta the woodwork as well - I'm gonna be talking directly to y'all for a bit of next week's Fw(o)M. =)

Had to peek in out of my retired status.

Eagerly awaiting next week.


Free Bore?????????

[Pheenics]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: The rotten leet

[PhoenixOfAges]

This is one of those things that I really can't stress enough when talking to people about design

Different things will appeal to different people and while some play a game for one reason others will play for another. Had PvP been so universally considered the only thing left to play AO for all the BSs would be seeing lots of activity, they're not, never have and likely never will.

Then as stated more VP in BSs doesn't help. It doesn't make it more interesting, it makes it more rewarding. On top of that it's a reward the continual BS goers complain they have way more than they have any use for. It's those not interested in PvP/BSs and/or not at an active BS lvl that have been asking for more VP. More VP in BSs doesn't help them. These "other" things would need to be the other things people have been asking for since around the launch of LE. Such as more layouts, other win goals, semi-randomly generated teams rather than side vs side, starting with less people if not enough are signed up and so on.

Also with PvP at least as it is now you generally need to stick IP into different places, perk different things and get different gear than you may have needed for PvM to be competitive. For most of those not interested in PvP to go through all that to be competitive for a week or so at one of the two active BSs to get their VP then go through most of it again to return to your PvM set-up isn't worth the bother. So they go in, can't compete and come out not liking PvP rather than just not being interested in it.

Then just because guides and what not are posted somewhere doesn't mean it's all done. If you haven't done it you haven't experienced it. Also those guides aren't always perfect and only show what the authors thought was the best way to do it, there can be variations or errors. Then making the content so it can be completed in more than just one way would add some added interest. Go here first and this changes, go there first and that is different and so on. Then depending on the changes it could suit certain groups differently so there isn't just one ideal group type.

But, these last years things changed somehow. Where people used to prefer teaming in pvm, something changed. While grinding exp, everyone got a reward, now everyone is doing the instance for the exact same item, and bringing more people only makes your chance of winning it smaller. So combine this with a few ideal combinations, and some people get left out.

Perhaps the answer is more crafted loot in team zones. That is you go in and collect general items to make something you want or get something when you use it or perhaps hand it in to a NPC. This way we're not all looking for the same specific thing but various general items that can drop more frequently. It could also provide a use for some of those AI raid loot items from generals still considered useless.

Then maybe add some things sort of like a cross between loot and VP. That is there may be some straight loot and/or crafted loot then you may collect very general things. You can then trade those general things for other things of various costs. The very general things could even just be a mission reward rather than looted so more or less people for those things makes no difference.

[Negs]

Almost forgot:

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Reclaim



The one simple word that can mean so much in so many different ways to all the people who ever got to experience Rubi-Ka

[Eventsbyjill]

While incentivizing people to team by offering increased loot chances isn't a bad idea in the slightest, it's also more or less one of those "band-aid" style fixes we really want to avoid. The main root of the problem is that an instance which was designed for six people can be done with less - Therein lies the real issue. The effort we're putting forth in regards to the profession balancing is designed to effect both PvM and PvP across the board, hopefully making PvM content more in-line with its original designs and, thusly, more in-line with its originally intended team requirements. =)

Honestly, I am glad to hear you say this. I was beginning to get concerned based on the state of the game at the moment. I'm not sure why but I thought the upcoming balance changes were going to be more pvp focused.. glad to hear that it is an all around pvp/pvm rebalancing.

[babek]

is that they shuld change GD evry 1 mounth bcs when u fresh at that post you work hard and excited.tbh was bored of reading stuffs happned Means personal life .
and thinking in correct track for balancing process is wronge example ranged advs,not communucating hardcore pvpers,just copying old stuffs and telling us that this is new
and last question do you think this night club is intrested most people ,do you really belive that this club is gona be like tower pvp places hard to move form lag? hell no .yeah i know evry game needs some socializaation or what ever but you guys have more more serious problems and you guys spending your time on night club?

[Tiralee]

Just some thoughts after reading posts in this thread:

AO has multiple types of players.

There are hardcore PvPers, hardcore PvMers, and those who like some of each.

There are those who are strictly Role Players, those who have no interest in being a Role Player, and those who do some of each.

There are also those who enjoy being in a team as often as they can, those who prefer to solo most of the time, and those who like to do some of each.

(I've seen it suggested every now and then that those who don't team most of the time just don't understand what MMO stands for. That's not true. Most people I know who prefer to solo are actively involved with other players, either in an org, or in OOC, or in other ways. And if they don't, and their only involvement is the stray encounter while buffing or looking for a buff, that's okay too. MMO doesn't mean "if you don't team you aren't doing it right".)

One of the greatest things about AO has always been that everyone can find their own stlye/preference in playing. I know that a lot of changes are coming. I know that "balancing" is being looked at. I am hoping that whatever happens, AO still stays true to that.

[Creacal]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Galvanize.

If a RPer was perhaps not in "the woodwork".. but say shoe shopping, can they continue shoe shopping or do you perhaps have some muffins to .. urm.. help convince them to stop shoe shopping and contribute to a discussion?

Chocolate or blueberry?

MUFFINZ!!!! OHMAGAWD GEIF NAO!!!

I should get a muffin avatar *goes to harrass Venachar about that*

[trousers]

Personally I don't see why a focus on Player on Player content would exclude Roleplay, and in fact by definition I would think it should most definitely include it.

It may be because, as far, all PvP content (even if you include PvE as PvP) fails to address the RP community.

The Storyline is beginning to get very shaky, involvement from FC is non-existent (expect to Switch Borealis from Neutral to Omni without any notice or to put a Hate mongering CEO who's appeared in public twice and only destroys the bonds of the RP community) as far as I can tell.

I'm not saying RP should be excluded, I'm stating it has been excluded in the past, and I see no reason why I should imply that the statement means otherwise.

That's all I'm saying.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Just some thoughts after reading posts in this thread:

AO has multiple types of players.
...

Exactly. There are a number of aspects to the game, things to do and different things will appeal to different people. Not everyone at lvl X plays for the same reason as everyone else either.

In the initial post Kintaii asked people to participate on the forums more. Although as I said earlier in the thread as that was put on the forums where only the interested forum goers will see it that will not provide much in the way of results. Then as Fatarapida said in response the behaviour of some of those forum PvPers put some off from participating. So what we can get is a loud minority among the forum posters minority (active forum posters in relation to players) barking requests and changes to FC. If FC moves the game in response to their wishes we'd get more things like BSs which were added to provide something for PvPers to do but as they are a minority among AO players most BSs don't run so the content falls apart.

If FC wants to have things appeal to the players then need to get in touch with the players to find out what they think and what they want. Surveys conducted on the launcher when you log into an account could help in that regards. Looking only to the forums will get you more of the same from the same people so you need to look elsewhere to get a larger response pool. Also getting info from fr00bs would help as they are suppose to be future hopeful subscribers, the forums exclude them completely.

[Tazalanche]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB LULZNAME CONTEST: Socialmedere

[vallikat]

MUFFINZ!!!! OHMAGAWD GEIF NAO!!!

I should get a muffin avatar *goes to harrass Venachar about that*

There is only one muffin and I have it.

[Ayria]

The harsh reality of MMORPGs is that once one person has done something, *everyone* has done it. The guides are put up, the tricks are figured out, and there's no real challenge there anymore. People come to understand the AI, they know exactly how to kite a mob, they know precisely when to blob and when not to blob in S42... the challenge is diminished to the point of rote memorization. This is because, no matter what, no game can create an endless, open system that will not repeat itself or ever become dull. Humans, however, are capable of acting and reacting on different levels from AI scripting - Their responses differ, and are varied. They're a random "x-factor" that adds new surprise and difficulty to an otherwise static creation.

This is not about AI vs the human brain. This is about tactics vs tools.

It is because of this that PvM fails to be challenging, because NPCs have a set toolkit and no tactical mind. You added sneaking mobs, and those are a surprise but they still attack when they first see you. A tactic would be for one to pop out and fight you while the other waits for you to appear low in HP and then blast you from behind.

Tactics is as much about mindset as it is actual damage. Players are confident moments after getting into a fight and exchanging shots; if they can outheal the damage or their HP will last longer then the mobs they'll stick around, if not they'll run. This assessment happens each fight and fairly early on. Popping two out of sneak as soon as they see you will mean the player runs away being overwhelmed. Popping one out and the second wait for a while to attack means the person is suddenly scared for their life as a second mob runs in. This happens a lot by chance and it means the death of many people, doing it on purpose is tactics.

People can talk all they want about "those mobs that killed me did this" but going out there again the mobs will have wandered, and may decide to do things differently. Variety can be programed, it just doesn't seem like FC is trying or that AO can handle it.

Yes it is limited, the human mind will always surpass it, but there is a lot more potential for tactics in AO PvM then there is now. There's potential for an instance to kick your ass to reclaim, but Funcom is to afraid to kill people these days.

Lets see another S42 come into play, none of this "poof you're at the boss stand there and shoot for 5 min and we give you big loot" crap that infects the game world. Lets see an instance that people piss themselves the first time they go through it and curse Funcom for making it impossible and then rant on the forums for weeks when they finally take it down.

These "here's your boss" instances are all hollow gratification machines, they spit out "winners" by the dozen (no pun intended with 12 man..) who have no more greater feeling of accomplishment then they would from killing a leet with an OS.

Of course this is all just opinion, but I continue to see other games with computer AI that would beat many so called "skilled PvPers" with ease and it's perhaps a blind hope but a hope never the less that AO can become such one day. PvP doesn't have to be the driving force behind a game, it's just the easiest one. Much easier to make items and give them to people and say "you make it happen" instead of making an AI to "make it happen".

*shurg*

[Emmaheart]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: The Laidback Leet


Owned everyone prior to me with L33t Aw3som3ne$$

[Monchil]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Pioneer Club