Friday with(out) Means - Aug. 7th, 2009: how did this get here i am not good with com

[Prynxkjui]

Like the recent birthday present stuff we did in the stations - Those seemed to go over really well, and I've been putting together some thoughts on similar ways we might be able to ****e up the Battlestation action.

Good intention appreciated, but increasing VP gain on the BS has not helped populate it in the past. How much VP did one initially get for a won BS at 220? Some 200 points? Now we're at 1180 points, VP have been increased on a similar basis for all level ranges. Still, BS is not running for most levels and has growing downtimes in the 2 level ranges that run.
Adding some VP items that drop off opponents will not help at all. Also it prefers toons with a big alpha - support professions are once again left behind just as we've got used to over the past 8 years.

[Zo0shee]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Sunset Shelter

PS: Welcome to FW(o)M, Kintaii

[Tradersoft]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Phuntroll

Feel free to interpret it the way you want.

[trousers]

This is one of those things that I really can't stress enough when talking to people about design - Player vs. player content is the only thing that will keep an online game running successfully.

Shame on you. The ONLY thing... Some of us don't PvP yet we remain because of the storyline and the Roleplaying...

A few days ago you say you want to talk to the RP community, and then you turn around and spit on us.

[Regidoc]

Shame on you. The ONLY thing... Some of us don't PvP yet we remain because of the storyline and the Roleplaying...

A few days ago you say you want to talk to the RP community, and then you turn around and spit on us.

In comparison, the RP community is a LOT smaller than the PvP community. So while it's true that everyone has a different reason for staying, you have to keep in mind that FC is a business and they have to keep the larger community from leaving.

It's not fair, and rude, to comment on it like you did.

Also, for those that are commenting and asking why FC is bothering to even put in the social night club in the first place. I believe it was stated that it was to give some people of the team something else to work on before they end up ripping their hair out working on other projects.

[trousers]

In comparison, the RP community is a LOT smaller than the PvP community. So while it's true that everyone has a different reason for staying, you have to keep in mind that FC is a business and they have to keep the larger community from leaving.

And the PvP community would be as large as it is if it received no attention from FC? Hardly.

[Firasting]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Twin-lights Dance Club

[lordran]

Shame on you. The ONLY thing... Some of us don't PvP yet we remain because of the storyline and the Roleplaying...

A few days ago you say you want to talk to the RP community, and then you turn around and spit on us.

If you only quote that piece of his reaction then yes it looks like he said ONLY PVP, but he also said -->

The term "PvP" covers a lot more than people initially think of. The first team to complete Sector 42 - Some of those guys around here have that accomplishment listed in their signature (and they have every right to). But that right there is a form of player vs. player content - The struggle against others attempting to complete the same goal and emerging victorious. You managed to complete the hardest encounter in AO to date and you did it first. You win.

[lordran]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Dead End Club

or

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Powerzone

[Regidoc]

And the PvP community would be as large as it is if it received no attention from FC? Hardly.

I'm sorry that you have a chip on your shoulder but RP does require some interaction from the player base. And in the years before I stopped playing, FC tried several times to instigate some RP events but they were over shadowed by lack of participation and harassment from those thare are not into RP.

[trousers]

I'm sorry that you have a chip on your shoulder but RP does require some interaction from the player base. And in the years before I stopped playing, FC tried several times to instigate some RP events but they were over shadowed by lack of participation and harassment from those thare are not into RP.

You're right. Abandoning a portion of the community is a far better approach then trying to reach out them. What was I thinking?

[Rushstyle]

ENTRY FOR NIGHTCLUB NAME CONTEST: Twister

[Chrys]

do not want!!1!

Dammit I was alrdy getting the trollsquad ready to arrange Means getting moved on... to some other project arrhhh

[Kintaii]

Good intention appreciated, but increasing VP gain on the BS has not helped populate it in the past. How much VP did one initially get for a won BS at 220? Some 200 points? Now we're at 1180 points, VP have been increased on a similar basis for all level ranges. Still, BS is not running for most levels and has growing downtimes in the 2 level ranges that run.
Adding some VP items that drop off opponents will not help at all. Also it prefers toons with a big alpha - support professions are once again left behind just as we've got used to over the past 8 years.

Note that I said "similar" - I tend to agree with you when you say that additional VP gain isn't a big enough incentive on its own, but there are other things we can do which might offer additional benefits and excitement to the stations as they exist. Like I said, I have thoughts - Whether or not we'll see them any time soon depends on a lot of factors, but the ideas are there and getting stirred.

As for any issues with profession balance, again - We realize that there are flaws inherent in the current system. AO's balance in general is far from perfect, but with the hard work of Genele and Metaing we're hoping we can even out the playing field a bit for everyone - Just takes time to get where we want to go. I don't think any of us here really like the idea of 'band-aid' fixes, and we wanna make sure that when we go about making any larger changes that we do it right, and in the right order. I think we're on the right track now in our discussions, though - Enough to where I'm starting to see a very faint glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

Much like with all other things in AO, though, it's a process, and will definitely take time; as much as I wish we could snap our fingers and maek fix plx there's always a lot of factors involved - A lot of things to discuss, debate, and eventually implement. It's a long process, and it sucks waiting (trust me, I know it sucks ><), but in the long run the time we spend checking and rechecking and tweaking (and arguing and throwing things and screaming at each other - it's a happy family down here, I swear) will hopefully mean that the end product will be worth the wait.

[Mereditche]

...

I think what FC overlooks here is that you need to make this repeatable to keep players intresting. Now they keep adding new OP items so people keep grinding and grinding to keep their equipment up to date, but once they get said item or grow tired of the endless grind, they stop playing.

Thats where towers shine, people keep going there since this content never ends. People have something to win, but the price doesn't last forever, so it's repeatable content.

Instead of adding new items, FC should think about adding challenges and not only in pvp but also in pvm. A very not worked out example: Put a big omni flag in Omni trade and a clan flag in Athens. Then make a pvm challenge where 1 clan team needs to fight some mobs, and at the same time an omni team needs to fight some mobs. The one who gets to a certain point first wins the enemies flag. Add a global advantage to taking your enemies flag and you got tower wars/BS for pvm-ers. You can also add ways for both teams to interfere with each other, like when an omni drains a mob, the same mob on clan side gets the opposite buff or killing one mob pops an extra mob for the other team. Or the team who reaches a lever first makes something bad happen to the opposite team, etc.

I think replayability would make a big difference. Also add a global warning 'clan team wants to take your flag? Will you defend, click yes'

It's not very worked out, but I try to explain how to make content repeatable for pvm-ers without needing to add to the already endless item and xp grind.

Same for pvp. Add scoreboards to bs, add challenges like 'kill 3 players without using nanno during a bs'. There is already to much content which diffuses the limited number of players. The item and exp grind have gotten so huge, I really feel sorry for the newbie who starts from zero today.

Repeatable content which can be done by every profession in pvp and pvm (and not only doc+enfo).

[ArienSky]

The biggest conflict I see in AO is that between PVPers, PVMers and RPers, not that between Omni and Clan (well everyone hate neutrals *wink*)

In that way I think research was a great thing!
Politics and alliances on what to research, PVM to get the XP and the outcome being usable in PVP.

I agree with Means, that the way the original research was put, it lead to a lot of wasted effort for the graphics developers..
_but_ I like the idea that research could tell the developers what a side would want.
I would not mind if stats of an item was changed, without the look changing with it.
eg. categories like:

• Armor
  
  • Atribute buffs
  • Nano skill buffs
  • AC
  • Evades
  
  
• Weapons
  
  • Damage
  • Attack
  • Recharge
  • Range
  • Clip
  
  
• Nanoes
  
  • Adventurer
  • Agent
  • Bureaucrat
  • Doctor
  • Enforcer
  • Engineer
  • Fixer
  • Keeper
  • Martial artist
  • Meta-physicist
  • Nano-technician
  • Shade
  • Soldier
  • Trader
  
  
• Breed specific items
  
  • Atrox
  • Nano
  • Opifex
  • Solitus
  
  
• Make shop buyable
  
  • 250 Health kits
  • 275 health kits
  • Apartment recall beacon
  • Grid Armor
  • Improved nanoes (SL nanoes)
  
  
• Social clothes
  
  • Red pumps
  • Yellow pumps
  • Rompa bar T-shirt
  • Ross/Silverstone T-shirts
  • Leet T-shirts

Not researches that will have a "47% completed", but just running totals, so you guys could see what each side would like uprated.

If the sub-categories are removed, and just keep the top-level ones; Armor, Weapons, Nanoes it could be up to the Developers what to give, but the community would have the feel of being in charge.
The outcome could be a HUD 3 item that reflects the changes (eg. weapon range, +1 clip size(if possible), +damage) or changes to a/some specific weapons.

It would also end the "FunCom gives side X the advantage", when it is the players themselves "voteing" for what to gain.

A great system I am sad to see is not being used.
People were really thrilled, back when it was introduced, making a difference between clan, neutral and omni.. it did not end up like that though, all sides got everything in the end.

I am glad I am not the only one thinking the global research system was cool, sadly the Game Director has expressed he does not like it.
At least not in the form it was at LE launch, I hope he is open-minded for a new system though.

It leave a couple of questions though; how to let the system work.
-the 3 leading ones each month get implemented?
-when a category is implemented, the XP(votes) are deleted?
-should it be harder for the same category to win again? (to discourage Min/maxing)eg. a 5-20% XP boost to the categories not chosen and/or a -5-20% decrease to those picked a lot.

One fear I have, is that it would lead to stat-racing, that it would enable soloing of the Beast and make PVM more dull..

What do you think?
Yes, -you-, reading this right now.

Kind Regards
Ariensky

PS. The "make shop buyable" might ruin some parts of the economy, for people farming those as a service to others.
It might also make the game less fun, as hard to obtain items are more fun than easy ones.

PPS. I wonder if some people would get mad at "wasted" points in the social clothes category, on the other hand, the Pre-order mech was the first to get researched

[Chrys]

The biggest conflict I see in AO is that between PVPers, PVMers and RPers, not that between Omni and Clan (well everyone hate neutrals *wink*)

Towermongers (not so much the duel/BS PVPers) are as much RPers as RPers themselves. They just disagree on method and extent of permissibility xD

[trousers]

What do you think?

I think I want a "Save Boss Ross" T-Shirt now :-D

[Eventsbyjill]

I think what FC overlooks here is that you need to make this repeatable to keep players intresting. Now they keep adding new OP items so people keep grinding and grinding to keep their equipment up to date, but once they get said item or grow tired of the endless grind, they stop playing.

Kintaii,

Maybe I'm naive in my thinking, but I think that what makes the PvM instances a grind is that fact that you can easily 'grind' them with 10-20% of the force originally intended to conquer the encounter. A 12-man end-game gear instance should require a FULL team of 12 people to defeat the boss encounter. Maybe you can pull it off with 10 but that should be the least you go in with and a 10-man team should only be successful because you have 10 of the best players going inside.

When I've played other mmo's and done raids they couldn't be solo'd like the raids in AO (solo/2-manned, whatever). As a result, you always had a need for people to fill up the raid force/contribute to its success. It didn't matter how 'good' you got at completing the raid.. you still need the bodies to go in and finish it. That is where AO is so different. Because we (ao community) go in and the content is so easy (use that loosely) that we're able to figure out how to 2-man a 6-man or 6-man (thought i saw someone say 2-man) a 12-man, people start farming it and, lol, selling lootrights to gear that should only be worn by people that completed the challenge to get it. Top End gear used to be a status symbol in AO. If you had the best gear, the best symbs, the best weapons.. it meant that you were part of the best. Now it just means that you saw the WTS Lootrights post before the guy that was standing next to you in-game.

Please take another look at PvM content. Make it a challenge, make it require a full team or raid force and bring back needing people, of all professions, to contribute to its success. Something's wrong when the 'new' 6-man instances requires the same number of people to complete as the 3rd floor IS (and yes, I know that many can solo 3rd floor IS.. but it can still be a pain depending on your class). I'm pretty sure that the last 12-man team I was on cleared that instance faster than most of the 'easy' and 'old' content on RK/SL. This shouldn't be. Take some notes from Age of Conan. The instances that I participated in took a full raid force, coordination and people off all classes. We need more of that.

Edit: Bad choise of word inn topic, The Xan has been done BY ONE PERSON



Did it with dual logged Keep + Crat (Knekt/Haavarst)



Are we getting a new harder instance now?



Got nice loot too

[Mereditche]

Top End gear used to be a status symbol in AO. If you had the best gear, the best symbs, the best weapons.. it meant that you were part of the best. Now it just means that you saw the WTS Lootrights post before the guy that was standing next to you in-game.

AO has never been a challenge in pvm. PVM has always been a mindless grind. Getting beast armor only indicated you had a lot of time to go to beast raids every day. Having apf equipment didn't mean anything else.

But, these last years things changed somehow. Where people used to prefer teaming in pvm, something changed. While grinding exp, everyone got a reward, now everyone is doing the instance for the exact same item, and bringing more people only makes your chance of winning it smaller. So combine this with a few ideal combinations, and some people get left out.

I know FC always tried to motivate teaming, but lately they are only motivating 2-man farming, which probably isn't their intent, but it's still happening. And the solution could be so easy (ex. higher drop chance with more people, 2 people = 10% chance, 4 people = 30% chance, 6 people = 60% chance). Now this motivates people to team.