Pistol mastery

[ghostt]

how is PM10 alright for advies to have, while they have more survivability in PvP, but not acceptable for soldiers? during this rebalance, everything is in a state of flux, but while everything is changing, soldiers haven't gotten looked at yet. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, nor beyond reason to ask for PM10.

[Chrys]

Advies shouldn't have it either.

[ghostt]

But, that's just the problem. maybe they shouldn't have it, but they do. I, personally, don't see the logic as to why an advy should have access to these perks, but soldiers should not.

while your opinion is that advies shouldn't have access either, the fact is: they do. given the fact that a profession who has a similar weapon toolset as a soldier's (ie: jobe pistol) has access to these perks, I don't see how having a few 80% def check perks would be OP considering the access that they've already given to advies, a prof with much higher survivability than soldiers.

a soldier with pistols on has a fairly low AR (by comparison to Ass. Rif.) anyway. 80% might be just the number you need to give yourself the option to wander off the beaten path weapon-wise like the good old days and still be fairly effective in PvP. and who knows? at 80% def check, we may occasionally be able to perk someone with pistols on.

[Chrys]

So your solution to imbalance is to make another profession just as imbalanced. Ok.

[ghostt]

so you're saying that giving soldiers access to the perkline would put pistol soldiers on the same level as ranged advies? ok.

[Chrys]

so you're saying that giving soldiers access to the perkline would put pistol soldiers on the same level as ranged advies? ok.

No, it would just tard up the game for yet more 'borderline' evaders (traders, NTs, MPs, enfs, keepers, etc.) by having yet another (all too common) profession making a joke of their efforts to twink evades.

Don't worry, I don't expect you to be able to see past your blinkered soldier lenses.

[ghostt]

actually, my main is an MA. i'm bringing my soldier out of retirement because I've finally had enough of sync issues, thanks. make an assumption...

try a pistol soldier and let's see how much you wind up hitting pseudo-evade classes without tons of specialized gear. your argument for why soldiers shouldn't have PM10 is that they'll kill you more. brilliant... Ass. Rif. soldiers can already kill most of those classes you listed with relative ease. switching to pistol with the same end result seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Chrys]

Right so because GTH is a spammable easy-to-land long-duration unremoveable nano that traders get to disable casting, MPs should also ask for the same 'features' for NSD? Hokay.

[ghostt]

are you not listening? GTH for MPs isn't even close to what I just said there.

Ass. Rif. soldiers can already kill most of those classes you listed with relative ease. switching to pistol with the same end result seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I'm asking for a possible alternative setup other than the AR soldier. you're telling me it's unreasonable to want to do the exact same thing soldiers can do with an AR, but with another weapon that funcom (apparently) intended us to use. where's the logic in that?

[Chrys]

Pistol soldier works just fine already, are you saying they're having trouble?

[Rurounin]

Saying that adventurers has no reason to have the pistol mastery perks just shows how little you know about AO. Adventurers has always had Pistol as one of their main weapon types. Same with engineers and crat's (I can't mention doctors and MP's, since I really can't remember what they used to run around with.)

However, a soldier did never have pistol as a primary weapon type, just a secondary alternative. And as it is, pistol is just exactly that without the Pistol Mastery perks. An alternative. It has never been a real alternative for endgame PvP and you most likely knew that when you decided to use a Pistol, I hear SMG soldiers do rather well in PvP now, maybe that's the direction you should go for instead?

[Racatti]

I say both PM10 and SM7 for soldier,

they only deserve so!

[Chrys]

Saying that adventurers has no reason to have the pistol mastery perks just shows how little you know about AO. Adventurers has always had Pistol as one of their main weapon types.

I'm not saying advies shouldn't have PM perks. I'm saying they shouldn't have pistol mastery perk attacks with 80% check. Basically, they need a different line from engies/crats/docs/mps that is balanced for their much much higher AR. They can perk pretty much everything out there atm, especially the borderline unperkable profs which was "supposed" to be their defense for lack of other options.

Same thing with soldiers, give them PM10 and you will see them perking fixers (lol) along with having every special in the book.

[Rurounin]

I'm not saying advies shouldn't have PM perks. I'm saying they shouldn't have pistol mastery perk attacks with 80% check. Basically, they need a different line from engies/crats/docs/mps that is balanced for their much much higher AR. They can perk pretty much everything out there atm, especially the borderline unperkable profs which was "supposed" to be their defense for lack of other options.

Same thing with soldiers, give them PM10 and you will see them perking fixers (lol) along with having every special in the book.

Actually everything in my post was directed to flashptblack, knew I should have mentioned that hehe.

[ghostt]

since everything was directed at me...

Saying that adventurers has no reason to have the pistol mastery perks just shows how little you know about AO. Adventurers has always had Pistol as one of their main weapon types. Same with engineers and crat's (I can't mention doctors and MP's, since I really can't remember what they used to run around with.)

never said that...

Advies shouldn't have it either.

but I guess he didn't either?

However, a soldier did never have pistol as a primary weapon type, just a secondary alternative. And as it is, pistol is just exactly that without the Pistol Mastery perks. An alternative. It has never been a real alternative for endgame PvP and you most likely knew that when you decided to use a Pistol, I hear SMG soldiers do rather well in PvP now, maybe that's the direction you should go for instead?

how do you determine whether a weapon is a profession's "main weapon" type? soldiers are designed to be the master of the ranged weapon skills. pistol costs the same as assault rifle, we have buffs for it, and there's a profession-specific pistol. with the introduction of SL, soldiers were pushed more toward pistol than anything else. in fact, pistol gains the second-highest buffs from chosen (don't know about faithful) armor than any other weapon skill, second to AR. seems like this was to be the next "intended" weapon to me.

the general direction they lead us to at that time was to go pistol. and you knew it because that's what everyone used. ofab pushed us back toward AR, and more toward the SMG side. for the longest time, being a ranged advy was considered the same thing as you just described, an alternative, workable in pvm, but underpowered in pvp, an "alternative".

the only thing I'm asking for is the same view that you give advies in this matter. making one of their "alternative" weapon setups viable again.

[Rurounin]

how is PM10 alright for advies to have, while they have more survivability in PvP, but not acceptable for soldiers?

That sounds like a reason for them to not have it.

in fact, pistol gains the second-highest buffs from chosen (don't know about faithful) armor than any other weapon skill

Ranged Energy 48
Assault Rifle 48
SMG 48
Pistol 42
Grenade 40
Rifle 40

Fourth one, the stats on the armor does however not imply anything, since I have never heard of a Grenade soldier in AO (even if it would be somewhat logical).

how do you determine whether a weapon is a profession's "main weapon" type? soldiers are designed to be the master of the ranged weapon skills. pistol costs the same as assault rifle, we have buffs for it, and there's a profession-specific pistol. with the introduction of SL, soldiers were pushed more toward pistol than anything else.

Seeing how SL didn't add any Pistol Mastery perks I think it speaks for itself? While Assault Rifle perks are under the "Profession specific" perk lines. Your Pistol Buff (not counting Total Focus) is a +40, while your Assault Rifle buff (Not counting in Improved of course) is +90 (125% Higher). While you had 1 good pistol, the Jobe pistol. Compared to all the Assault Rifles that was added before and after the Jobe pistol. I think it is pretty clear that Pistol is just an alternative (That still to this day outperforms Assault Rifle in PvM as it is as long as you mix it with a SMG.)

the general direction they lead us to at that time was to go pistol.

Nope

and you knew it because that's what everyone used.

Actually the majority went with Assault Rifle, again with these odd stats, where the hell are you getting them from?

being a ranged advy was considered the same thing as you just described, an alternative, workable in pvm, but underpowered in pvp, an "alternative".

Only difference beeing that it always was one of their main weapon types, hence why they got such a long needed improvement, the reason that this improvement was not been added earlier was because melee adventurers already had such a strong standing and was considered the lovechilds, even now when they are still good-but-not close-to-their-old-glory people complain about it. Might want to imagine about the complaints that would have happen a couple of years ago if a similiar update was added. Not to mention that it was taboo for previous game directors to actually touch perks at all. (Go Means go!)

Anything else that you are confused about?

[Smasherr]

Same thing with soldiers, give them PM10 and you will see them perking fixers (lol) along with having every special in the book.

This is why, flashptblack, think the guy taunts you, but he's clear enough.

It's unbelievable that we're in the same spot where we were before le, with more and more soldiers switching to dual wielding. I guess a year from now when no one will be using an Assault Rifle, they'll have to introduce a freaking cannon with no full auto recharge to ungimp us again.
I like that we have an alternate dd set-up for pvm, but it puts us in a disadvantage compared to other professions. I haven't seen any melee advies having to switch from 1he in pvm to 2he in pvp. We should be asking for stuff that will keep Assault Rifle in game, not pistol freaking mastery. Again, I can cope with the fact that dual wielding Soldiers might do a bit more dmg than assault rifle in pvm (not to the current extent btw, we need more dmg from assault rifle perks, think even fixers od us atm), but when it has become debatable which set-up is better for pvp aginst which professions, assault rifle or dual wielding, it's clear that we're heading in the wrong direction again.

[Louderer789]

but when it has become debatable which set-up is better for pvp aginst which professions, assault rifle or dual wielding, it's clear that we're heading in the wrong direction again.

When AS and FA are on the same timer, I think the debate will end pretty abruptly.

[Questra]

No, it would just tard up the game for yet more 'borderline' evaders (traders, NTs, MPs, enfs, keepers, etc.) by having yet another (all too common) profession making a joke of their efforts to twink evades.

Don't worry, I don't expect you to be able to see past your blinkered soldier lenses.

Yes, because traders with a capped AS, nanobot guard and GTH/HHAB to keep their nanopool full, and the ability to cut endgame sold/enf AR almost in half need to be able to twink evades to the point of not being perkable to an undrained sold/enf.

Or enfs with pretty much the best alpha in the game, huge healing and damage absorption, among the best AR out of everyone, and insane NR, need to be unperkable.

Or keepers, who are already unperkable to 85% of the game's good tl7 PvPers and have good PvP damage and healperks.

Or MPs, who only need to right click a Zset to "twink evades"... you're saying a Tigress MP with 5 blockers, a capped AS and healpet/attack pet needs to be unperkable to soldiers and enfs without Zset equipped?

You're saying all those profs should be able to have 3.8k static def?

I don't want soldiers to have PM perks, not just because I hate the idea of the best soldier PvP option being non-assault rifle, but because I don't think it would be fair. I don't want easymode PvP, I want fun PvP.

But you keep fighting your MP corner until every MP is unperkable with a Tigress equipped and everyone in BS not only ignores the lame ninja capping shield MPs because they can't touch them, but the capped AS Tigress MPs too.

[Racatti]

I'm not saying advies shouldn't have PM perks. I'm saying they shouldn't have pistol mastery perk attacks with 80% check. Basically, they need a different line from engies/crats/docs/mps that is balanced for their much much higher AR. They can perk pretty much everything out there atm, especially the borderline unperkable profs which was "supposed" to be their defense for lack of other options.

Same thing with soldiers, give them PM10 and you will see them perking fixers (lol) along with having every special in the book.

Crats have the same AR as advs.