Friday with Means - July 10th, 2009 - Stims, Neutrals, Content and Vacation

[sultryvoltron]

Fixes I want to see in next patch:
4) Fix facepalm... way too fast

This imo.

[Saetos]

Facepalm: slower, incline head, a slight shake.

For maximum effect.

[Mereditche]

It should be easier however to get some decent equipment, nanos, implants, etc... and I think it would be very easy to tie the faster leveling with the methods to get some decent gear...which adds even more reason to actively play your toon and get the knowledge that's expected of you in the later levels.

The fact they can get decent gear will already cause an increase in levelling speed. I'm only afraid they would level to fast and forget to learn to play their character.

[Keldros]

I don t really see how one could consider the current grind needed to achieve a character "reasonnable". The whole grind being not only the regular lvling and research and axp, but the item gathering also.

What do you mean by "achieving a character"? If you haven't done this by the time you're out of the subway, you're obviously on the wrong track.

People want to level faster because they claim there's no content before TL7. Then when they reach TL7 they complain that all new content should be for TL7 only because "everyone is too busy trying to level" below 220. Then when they get new TL7 content the complain that it takes too long to level new alts to 220.

See a pattern here? Faster levelling without new low-level content actually makes the problem worse, not better.

[tacoleet]

Facepalm: slower, incline head, a slight shake.

For maximum effect.

Bump for DOUBLE facepalm..


Because sometime... your stupidity is so fail.. one facepalm isn't enough

[DePreach]

removed

[Ayria]

No. You can do just fine with Miy's, Pred, tier and a ginormous variety of other armors for all PVM activities till tl7. PVP armors should remain PVP.

I must have missed the line in the db that stated Ofab was for PvP only.

I really wish you twats would stop trying to bring up that point as if it has any validity. Ofab was designed as a upgrade to T3 and simply because the Battlestations were Sil's pet project he wanted to show off as a success the bolstered VP from PvP happened to be the best way to get Ofab.

That doesn't mean it is specifically PvM or PvP, it's just armour.

[Djantro]

"Achieving" a character :

- Set goals for a character, a purpose, exemple "I want it to be my tl3 tower basher", "I want it to be my 150 credz farmer in s10", "I want it to be my org's tradeskill monkey", "I want it to be my main, being able to have fun in pvp, farm any pvm gear i d need or to help friends".

- Set limits : how deep you wanna achieve it, if you take the whole game content / tool / equipment offer as an absolute, and what you pick as the relative limit, exemple : "I wanna gear my tl7 main correctly, i ll gear him with every single best piece of equipment / toolz, except that i don t believe in 300 symbiant, i won t bother goin this far for little bonus", or "I can t be bothered farmin stupid token so my tl5 pvp twink will run with a collar", or the other way around "I ll consider nothing done before my 165 twink has the max AI xp (AI 23 here)" etc etc

- Here i d do a "to-do" list in regards to the above.

- Once the "to-do" list is empty, the character is "finished".

Obviously, you do have fun not only when the char is finished but during the process of building it as well.

Also the whole "There are too many clueless 220" is a myth, an illusion. We all know, said, that strict lvling was relativly quick. Ok. So when you see a 220 toon you actually don t have to look only at its lvl, but at te rest, axp, research, gear, etc, to judge him. Being 220 isn t a prof that a player know his toon anymore ? so what s the big deal ? he is only at 10% of the actual journey, he ll have time to learn.

[Sawbones2]

People want to level faster because they claim there's no content before TL7. Then when they reach TL7 they complain that all new content should be for TL7 only because "everyone is too busy trying to level" below 220. Then when they get new TL7 content the complain that it takes too long to level new alts to 220.

See a pattern here? Faster levelling without new low-level content actually makes the problem worse, not better.

THIS....

....is exactly right.

Make it interesting to spend time at TL5 and not so many people will (want to) jump from Ado hecks straight to Inf LFT.

[Wrangeline]

People want faster leveling because the road to endgame now is quite bland. Try leveling from 1-220 without joining heckler teams or doing 100 inf missions.

Faster leveling wouldn't be so important if leveling was more fun and varied than it currently is.

Having that said, there's nothing wrong with both more varied and faster leveling at the same time. As someone have pointed out already, getting the gear you really want is like 50% of the leveling process these days. If you don't have gear worth 5 billion+ you are not worth much in endgame PvP in most cases. If we want people to join AO and expect them to stay here and make their own endgame characters over time then we must realize what it's like to start out at level 1 with 0 credits and try to end up at 220/30/70 with 5 bil worth of gear.

I realize that it's possible to play AO and have fun without creating an endgame character but it's also important to realize that loads of new players (and old players for that matter) don't like the idea of starting a new character in a game where the road to endgame is so long and tedious. There are loads of people who like making their way to endgame and having powerful characters BEFORE they are 2 years older.

[Boltgun]

People want faster leveling because the road to endgame now is quite bland. Try leveling from 1-220 without joining heckler teams or doing 100 inf missions.

Faster leveling wouldn't be so important if leveling was more fun and varied than it currently is.

Having that said, there's nothing wrong with both more varied and faster leveling at the same time. As someone have pointed out already, getting the gear you really want is like 50% of the leveling process these days. If you don't have gear worth 5 billion+ you are not worth much in endgame PvP in most cases. If we want people to join AO and expect them to stay here and make their own endgame characters over time then we must realize what it's like to start out at level 1 with 0 credits and try to end up at 220/30/70 with 5 bil worth of gear.

I realize that it's possible to play AO and have fun without creating an endgame character but it's also important to realize that loads of new players (and old players for that matter) don't like the idea of starting a new character in a game where the road to endgame is so long and tedious. There are loads of people who like making their way to endgame and having powerful characters BEFORE they are 2 years older.

This. Leveling is speed is okay, I mean not 220/30/70 in a week fast but you can get to the endgame and still have room for optimisation.

XP stim drama will still happen no matter what. People always want to level faster, even if it takes a week someone will ask for 5 days instead.

However the road is bland, and at times broken, I look at Pen hecklers. Barely 20 levels later you go to missions or inf, and under that you are probably smashing ado hecks. So instead of a meaningful tank and healer you need someone to pocket. It's not even powerleveling, you rarely get through without a 220 helping you. It seems that 140-175 is a wall many players crash on.

Also the gear is a problem, without handing ai gear to everyone, players should be able to gather enough gear and still be eager to upgrade. In example by changing the shops to give reasonable stuff at reasonable prices, I mean what kind of game makes their shops a death trap where new players waste their money?

Dailies sounds great, also a review of the current leveling needs to be done, both rk and sl. Like putting ado mishes outside of spider infested underwater.

[Ahndracorvid]

they've decided the benefits of being neuts arent worth having, but rather want some little token board around their neck.

This kind of thing is getting extremely tiresome. Please don't make sweeping generalizations like that and lump everybody into the same group. Your sentence reads to me too much like an accusation. Not everybody thinks the way you imply. And I hate to say it but it doesn't fill me with confidence to see this attitude from my own profession's professional... :\

Means if you're planing on giving neutrals new boards give them 1 for each TL level and make it require tokens in order for them to archive them!

The "gap" for TL7 neutrals is already incredibly huge considering we can't defend out very own TL7 tower-site!

If you care about neutral pvp/ers i'm sure you will satisfy them all with DECENT boards! Neutrals are already full of jealousy after they saw the omni xan boards (myself included)

Eeeeep. >_< Luiza not all of us want to grind tokens like our sided counterparts and are happy to accept a somewhat inferior neck item as a result. I have said elsewhere it's possible for neutrals to be effective in pvp even without a sided token board (which makes it even more fun when we still manage to beat sided toons despite having inferior gear), and I've also mentioned (again) earlier in this thread that being given an identical board acquired through identical means takes away another aspect that makes neutrals distinctive from omni/clan. Please don't speak for all of us when neutrals as a group have so many opinions on what it means to be neutral, why playing neutral is fun for them, and what they'd like to see in the alignment's future that it's unlikely one person can speak for all of us. :P What you've posted is your opinion but please don't imply that it's all of ours.

[Kain97]

The fact they can get decent gear will already cause an increase in levelling speed. I'm only afraid they would level to fast and forget to learn to play their character.

You apparently skipped over the other parts of my previous post - if you make it worthwhile to go out and actually play instead of sitting on their asses in a kite/pocket team you'll have people actively playing their toons. Nothing teaches better than experience.

I don't think anyone is truly asking for the leveling to be sped up by the huge amount you seem to be assuming. I would settle for a very modest boost to actual xp (and make rk and sl xp the same already, ffs) and far more varied ways to level.

Hell, they could take a page from AoC and add in solo quests like the destiny quests. And they could use info they get from those quests at the different levels to see what professions need love/nerfs at what levels, and done right would result in a much more balanced game throughout the various title levels for all professions.

[Chrys]

I must have missed the line in the db that stated Ofab was for PvP only.

I really wish you twats would stop trying to bring up that point as if it has any validity. Ofab was designed as a upgrade to T3 and simply because the Battlestations were Sil's pet project he wanted to show off as a success the bolstered VP from PvP happened to be the best way to get Ofab.

That doesn't mean it is specifically PvM or PvP, it's just armour.

You are spoilt for choice when it comes to the means of obtaining it, and the fact that it's PVP obtainable is what sets it apart from 99% of the rest of the gear out there. For the vast majority of useful endgame gear, there's only one or two ways to get it, and certainly no PVP method.

In short, working as intended. Only the PVM carebears cry that they take ages to get one set of items out of the gazillions of alternatives while doing stuff they don't enjoy (well I find PVM braindead boring but you won't see me whining about putting BoCs and ACDCs in BS shops).

Item grind is bad, but you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to acquiring ofab, it's easier than the majority of PVM-attainable armors.

[Thermonuked]

good news about the neuts, however, as some of the older players will know, a good neut is still better than an average clan/omni player. it just takes more time, effort, and dedication. (i am an average clan player...)

what i would like to see, especially with less ppl around now, is drop rates on dyna/alien bosses phatz increased, by quite a lot, 20+ alien generals killed in my orgs city since the last lead bots dropped, which were spiritual (isnt it about time spirituals got some additional buffs to make them slightly less worthless? +nano damage/+heal %/+nano resist and +nano range would be good for a start), i know drop rates have nothing to do with previous kills, so ppl can get unlucky and never have anything nice drop, while others get 240+ supples everytime they put CRU in the CT, make the city gens have a 50/50 chance of lead bots, and ship gens a 100% lead bot drop, which will reward the ppl who actually run raids and not just farm. it'll also make things slightly more even for the ppl who only get a few hours a week to play, compared to those who spend 18 hours a day online.

take for instance, the dyna's in ado, the dryad thats constantly camped for spiritech mesh, by some 220's that can alpha the mob in 0.5 sec, and afk for 20 mins, for profs that dont have 13-15k specials to open up with, or dont have the absolute best gear in game already, usually dont get a look in. increasing the drop rate might actually mean some ppl in the 130-160 level range choose to spend some time in adonis instead of heading straight to inferno and 220, so they can also camp grey dyna's.

1 more thing, which seems to be one of the biggest issues in tl7 pvp, is the shadowbreed issue, with the omni soli SB being of particular note, why not just combine the offensive parts of omni SB with the defensive parts of clan SB, and give it to everyone? shadowbreeds will be balanced, no more whining about one side having an advantage if we all have the same.

[Ebondevil]

take for instance, the dyna's in ado, the dryad thats constantly camped for spiritech mesh, by some 220's that can alpha the mob in 0.5 sec, and afk for 20 mins, for profs that dont have 13-15k specials to open up with, or dont have the absolute best gear in game already, usually dont get a look in. increasing the drop rate might actually mean some ppl in the 130-160 level range choose to spend some time in adonis instead of heading straight to inferno and 220, so they can also camp grey dyna's.

One thing which I think may solve that problem would be to revitalise the SL missions, make them available all the way down to Nascence even, and put in the Boss loot as potential mission rewards, some of the items are ridiculously stupid to try and farm and because they're so hard to farm, casual players don't get a chance of getting them and the drop rate is too low to support a larger population wanting the items, allow them to become potential drops from mission bosses, or available as mission rewards would be interesting.

Or another idea for mission rewards in SL would be something similar to tokens, each mission completed gives you some credit with the faction you did the mission for, get enough credit and you can then use it to 'buy' an item from that faction that you want, giving not only experience for doing the missions but also valuable gear that can help you level further. Meaning the items become available as a reward for hard work, instead of pure chance for farming a meaningless mob for hours on end.

[Steiden]

Dont change the grind. It is perfect like it is, for reaching 220/30/70.

You made it easy enaugh when you gave us the huge infernomission rewards.
The long grind and that you have to put much work into the game, make it really worth playing.

People who want to reach endgame in a month or so, can always jump over to WoW.
A perfect game for teenagers who lack patience


Steiden

[Thermonuked]

One thing which I think may solve that problem would be to revitalise the SL missions, make them available all the way down to Nascence even, and put in the Boss loot as potential mission rewards, some of the items are ridiculously stupid to try and farm and because they're so hard to farm, casual players don't get a chance of getting them and the drop rate is too low to support a larger population wanting the items, allow them to become potential drops from mission bosses, or available as mission rewards would be interesting.

Or another idea for mission rewards in SL would be something similar to tokens, each mission completed gives you some credit with the faction you did the mission for, get enough credit and you can then use it to 'buy' an item from that faction that you want, giving not only experience for doing the missions but also valuable gear that can help you level further. Meaning the items become available as a reward for hard work, instead of pure chance for farming a meaningless mob for hours on end.

i'd go a little further to try and revitalise SL area's, and change the levels that players can team and get xp/sk, which is also long over due for the pvp levels as well, on the BS, the levels are well set out, it keeps things fun but not frustrating, but outside of a BS, a 175+ toon doesnt stand a chance against a 220, so this should be raised imo, to 205, or even 210 as per the BS, and team level similarly reduced/restricted, as it is a bit annoying seeing ppl level 160 in inf, asking for team missions, when they dont even have the AR to hit a mob, (not all, but seriously, i have been in teams with ppl 215+ that are still using the same gear they had @ 160), maybe i've just been playing for too long, and remember the days when we had to sit in the garden spamming LFT in ooc for a spot in a heck team to open up, and ppl actually had to make a good impression or they'd never get a team, quicker levelling just means that ppl dont have to try any more.

[SteakStyles]

This may seem a bit out of place, but will whatever xp fixes that are in the works and the planned new 150-200 stuff be available to froobs as well? Yeah, stuff like that kinda fits into being an incentive to subscribe, but I am pretty sure most of us have froob alts that could benefit from such changes as well.

[PingBong]

What about the oped ranged advs/broken 1hb? you cant introduce new stuff and leave it half assed like this