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Thread: Nerfing LLTS - Improvement suggestions only

  1. #41
    Greatly reduce the ranged init penalty on LLTSs. To quote the item description:
    This Low Light Targeting Scope not only adds a nice bonus to your range, it also adds a bonus to your chance of hitting a vital part when you shoot. NOTE: Using this requires you to use more time for each shot, and thus increasing chances of getting a critical. It works at close quarters too, but is not recommended.
    -150 init at 8% would be good.

  2. #42
    Yes, nerfing ELLTS's sux economy wise, i spent nearly 500mil on two different scopes. But, I am an MA, i will survive, if there is compensation. Here is my thought:

    Several people have suggested offering us 2 IPR points to gain the IP we spent on someithng many will not use anymore. Others have mentioned that certain weapons will become useless without their high crit chances. I agree with both of these ideas. Because of that, some players may want to choose alternative wpn strategies, but may also lack the IP to do so.

    I suggest an additional 1 time Full IPR

    This will allow those who have based their whole characters simply on their ability to crit, to addapt to this new change, keeping a useful, playable character

    Just my thoughts - LS
    Littleslayar "LS" - lvl 195 Gimp - Proud to Self Cast FFoK and UVC at lvl 162 Before Notum Wars.

    Check here for help on How to Self Cast FFoK/UVC Pre 190

    Freshman Ian "FrostGigas" Warr - lvl 167 Blade Trox


    The Shark Ethic: Eat the Wounded, Kill the Gimped

  3. #43
    I completely apologize for posting this here and it's not meant to be here. I will delete/edit it if necessary.

    How about they make ELLTS Ranged only? Make Take the Shot Ranged only as well.

    Make UVC and Mark line of nanos Melee only. Maybe give the nice enforcers and melee adventurers a parry device that adds crit only for melee.

    I think that would balance it a tad more than just nerfing LLTS.

    That way MA's don't get overpowered, but it's not like UVC is being nerfed.

    Now you won't see MA's with huge guns outdamaging soldiers, because ELLTS doesn't stack with UVC. Simple solution.
    Captain Sparkyd Kirk

    Proud Unit Commander of Band of Brothers
    Über® Equipment - Courtesy of Auno.org

    An agent with a GPH?? WTH, since when do you even cast nanos?? - Random tell

    No longer playing.

  4. #44
    Well there is nothing that can be done to Make the Ellts blance the VE. If you looked at the boards saw that Ellts were going for 250 mil +. There is no way that the players that work hard for there money will be worth it.

    But here are some thing that may help them retain value.
    Add to Agg
    Add to attack rating
    Add to All Dmg types
    Less of a -init
    Add to Aimed shot
    Add to To weapon skills in which a scope can go on. (modable based on tradeskill. Like the Poineer pack. Do one thing to the scope and let it add to one of the following. Bow, pistol, shot gun, rifle, Smg)
    -% to Aimed shot recharge (why would a scope help you with Fling shot "quick shot" , brust or full auto)





    Things that the scope should not do.

    Add to xp %
    Add to Max HPs
    Add to Max Nano
    Add to Def (Your Looking threw a scope! if you have ever looked threw I scope on a rifle you know what I am talking about)
    Scopes that Add 8+ crits chance should be 8's . (why many people paid alot for the 9,10,11,12. Why for the crit chance taking them down below what you can find VE would make all those ppl that have scopes that 9-14 mad. Paying 50+ for 9% scope that is know going to be a 3% scope would make me leave)

    I don't think that the scope need to be changed. But if you are going to change them remember all the old and new players that had to work for weeks in order to buy a Ellts.

  5. #45

    Angry Bah

    Ql 200 Extreme Low Light Targeting Scope
    Slot: hud 2
    Change Vision
    Modify Self aimed shot 150
    Modify Self critical chance 4
    Modify Self melee init -550
    Modify Self physical init -550
    Modify Self ranged init -550
    Modify Self weapon range 45
    Modify Self max health 140
    Modify Self exp modifier 4

    Make the scope still NOT drop in game, that will make its worth stay.

    FC better make this item worth something or they will have a lot of mad people quiting. Nothing like spending months of getting enough creds or items to be able to get the scope, just to have FC take it away. Thanks for nothing...
    Last edited by azzface; Oct 1st, 2002 at 20:19:51.

  6. #46
    Originally posted by luray

    -% to Aimed shot recharge (why would a scope help you with Fling shot "quick shot" , brust or full auto)
    nice idea!!! Is this possible CZ?


    also... what about this...

    make three different new scopes....
    A shotgun scope
    +30 shotgun
    +30 fling
    (removes aimed shot buff)
    -300 init
    9% crit (still better than VE)
    maintain range incr

    An Assualt rifle scope
    +30 AR
    +30 burst
    (removes aimed shot buff)
    -300 init
    9% crit (still better than VE)
    maintain range incr

    A Rifle scope
    +30 rifle
    maintains aimed shot buff
    -300 init
    9% crit (still better than VE)
    decreases aimed shot recycle
    maintains range increase

    these scopes add to the skills and can be made from only the current scopes.

    The old scopes would need to be hacked and then a tradeskill part would be added to them to create the new scope.. all the new scopes would also be hackable to switch to another scope later on. The ability of these scopes to help equip new weapons would help maintain their value to some of the dark blue skill weapon using classes.

  7. #47
    QL 200:
    +10% crit chance
    -400 Ranged Init
    -400 melee Init
    -400 physical Init
    +250 Aimed Shot
    +250 Sneak Attack
    +100 Concealment
    +100 Perception

  8. #48
    Originally posted by Sparkyd
    I completely apologize for posting this here and it's not meant to be here. I will delete/edit it if necessary.

    How about they make ELLTS Ranged only? Make Take the Shot Ranged only as well.

    Make UVC and Mark line of nanos Melee only. Maybe give the nice enforcers and melee adventurers a parry device that adds crit only for melee.

    I think that would balance it a tad more than just nerfing LLTS.

    That way MA's don't get overpowered, but it's not like UVC is being nerfed.

    Now you won't see MA's with huge guns outdamaging soldiers, because ELLTS doesn't stack with UVC. Simple solution.
    Just hope you guys read this.... :/
    Captain Sparkyd Kirk

    Proud Unit Commander of Band of Brothers
    Über® Equipment - Courtesy of Auno.org

    An agent with a GPH?? WTH, since when do you even cast nanos?? - Random tell

    No longer playing.

  9. #49
    Originally posted by LittleSlayar

    Several people have suggested offering us 2 IPR points to gain the IP we spent on someithng many will not use anymore. Others have mentioned that certain weapons will become useless without their high crit chances. I agree with both of these ideas. Because of that, some players may want to choose alternative wpn strategies, but may also lack the IP to do so.

    I suggest an additional 1 time Full IPR

    If there gonna be changes to ellts it gonna screw up so many characters, its not only EE and WS. 1 time Full IPR is a M U S T !!

  10. #50
    i agree my raids are completely worthless now there must be a full ip reset

    or at least weapon and trade skill
    "death comes slowly to those who anticipate it and swiftly to the unconcerned" Richard Pyott

    You want a duel?.......Go play chess
    You want honor?......Go serve your country in the military

    First pistol crat to reach Chief.

    Proud follower of the Mexican Hat Band Cult.

  11. #51
    reduce crits and inits modifiers on the scope and add a XP modifier.

    For pvp crit items are very good, in pvm and in team, items/nanos giving a xp modifier is the best items you can have is my opinion.
    Thats very useful for those out lvling and would be very wanted for the powerlvlers, and not that much noticed by the pvp'ers.

    It should be 15% for a QL200 scope.

    All other changes to the scope is no option in my opinion.

  12. #52
    Originally posted by besheba
    i agree my raids are completely worthless now there must be a full ip reset

    or at least weapon and trade skill
    People may want to reset special skill too.
    And if people not had had the scope, many would spend less IP into inits so IPR points would be needed for that too.

  13. #53
    I suggested this in the other thread this morning just putting it here.

    Put the good scopes back in game.

    Make them stack with ma other crit buffs only

    let the vision enhancer stack with ma/agent buffs giving the ma a little more of an edge on crit percentage.

    This will make fast, low damage, meduim to high crit weapons more viable for all to use and slower uber crit weapons with low damage(krutt) usable as well.


    The Artist formerly known as Yesiamstoned 148nt RK2

  14. #54
    What good is the -xxxx to inits when a negative skill in inits turns out to be the same thing as zero init? For instance..a crat friend of mine uses a 13% LLTS & has a negative skill in ranged init. I use a TIM scope + RI imps and my ranged init is almost 1000. I use an X3, she uses a ithica snakemaster. How come she can fire faster when my ranged init is more than 1000 points higher than hers? I know the speeds of the weapons are not that far apart...
    .: Naraya :.

  15. #55
    Originally posted by Seruk
    If there gonna be changes to ellts it gonna screw up so many characters, its not only EE and WS. 1 time Full IPR is a M U S T !!
    This is true....if the scopes are nerfed or the reqs on the scope change, all the IP & IPR which people spent in EE & WS will be simply wasted. You can't do something like that without offering some sort of reset.
    .: Naraya :.

  16. #56
    Here's my idea.

    Make the bonuses on the LLTS *exactly* match the VEs.

    However!!

    Make an item that you can tradeskill your LLTS into. Call it "Aid to Forgetfullness" or something. This item, when used, adds from 1-4 IPR points to your character, and disappears. (original crit bonus, divide by 4, round up, so 1-4%s become 1 point, 5-8%s become 2 points, 9-12%s become 3points, 12+%s become 4 points).

    Then make the scopes available in the fixer shop. Make them available as follows:

    A 2% (nerfed %, would have been a 4%) scope, costing 25mil.
    A 4% (nerfed %, would have been a 8%) scope, costing 50mil.
    A 6% (nerfed %, would have been a 12%) scope, costing 75mil.
    A 8% (nerfed %, would have been a 15%) scope, costing 100mil.

    People who don't want the IPR points from their old scopes should be able to make back at least some portion of the money they spent auctioning their scopes off, for less than the fixer shop sells them for.

    Does this make ANY ingame sense? No. Does it address people's concerns about useless scopes? Yep. Does it give a way for level 200s with way too much money to earn the IPR points they want? Yep.

    Is it, in the long run, FUN? It's better than a kick in the nuts.
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

  17. #57

    Suggestions...

    Well it's pretty much made up that FC is going to nerf the critical down to 8% at the highest QL, no more, no less, thanks to the whiners.

    I took some time and thought up of some decent suggestions and loopholes to patch up the gaping hole of the missing 7% critical.

    Try giving a bonus to the many current LLTS combinations.
    Such as a Globe of Clarity. Give it a better critical chance, maybe even nerf other parts of it if you do, give it more of a offensive & defensive modifier, or less.

    Same with weapons, such as the Ithaca Ki-8, make it fire faster, give it a higher critical damage, or maybe even a higher normal damage. Even try giving the Ithaca a 1% critical chance. Try doing this with other guns people use for PvP, like the Novaflow. In turn doing this will increase the value of these weapons, but hey, whatever it takes to please your customers right?

    +AllOff/AllDef & Minimum/Maximum damage seems viable.
    I liked the idea of adding +AllOff/AllDef on the scope, that seems like a viable plan, as well as adding more to minimum/maximum damage, since critical chances will be alot less, adding more to minimum & maximum damage will probably sub for it.

    Give a better critical chance on token boards.
    Or/and more minimum/maximum damage & +AllOff/AllDef at earlier stages of the board.

    Remove stupid init. penalties.
    If you're going to drop the critical chance, then at least remove the init. penalties, increasing attack speed and thus increasing critical chance.

    That's all I can think of for now, I'll post more when I get new ideas.
    Last edited by Æxíd; Oct 1st, 2002 at 22:25:20.
    [color=sky blue]Neophyte Æxid[/color] | 200 Clan RK2 Trader
    Unit Commander of Immortal Ascension
    Server First: Ian Warr

  18. #58
    Scizzored from my post in the original thread:

    1. Reimburse "wasted" IP in WS, EE, + ALL raised weapon skills your char might have. That is, give every char one IPR point extra, for every weapon skills that has received a certain amount of IP. This would be available for a limited time.

    or: Since the above is hard to implement, why not arrange another full IPR per char, since the effects of the nerf and wepaon skill choices will have a massive impact on character design. Many players using ranged weapons will have to switch weapons and implants after the nerf, if the fast, low regular damage weapons are indeed going to be rendered useless without a decent crit chance to compensate.

    2. As I do take for granted the new version of LLTS will be inferior or equal to VE in terms of actual damage output over time, there is a substantial amount of players who will feel cheated for paying 100-300mill for a lost advantage in PvM and PvP. Therefore, please give players the option to sell LLTS to vendors for 1mill per QL (I know someone already said this, but I happen to agree). I know this will generate alot of ingame credits, but this is about keeping players happy, imho. You (FC) stated earlier the LLTS would remain in the game, and the nerf is going to make alot of people unhappy. The economy is broken anyway, as there are no major money sinks to prevent the insane inflation we are seeing.

    3. Remove the init penalty from the LLTS.

    4. Add a *decent* Fling Shot and Burst bonus (+300 for ql 200 ELLTS?) and remove the night vision effect.

    5. Add an AGGDEF boost (similar to Shadow Rift of the Eagle) proportionate to the QL of scope.

    6. And most importantly, to prevent future item nerfs: Nerf the whiners!!! They are ruining the game for old timers who must keep adapting to new rules. Old chars that constantly have to adapt to new rules will inevitably become broken chars, unless more IPR points are given to us. This is a fact you cannot dispute!
    Bret 'Bothead' Bannister
    Member of Rising Phoenix

  19. #59
    I say give them an All.Off bonus like the Auto Targeting nano effect, its a targeting scope after all, you should be able to aim better, not just crit. If FC give to many bonus to te scope,they will still be over powered against the players who don't have 150mil credits or started to play lately, make the LLTS fair for everyone,
    had some sweet bonus so the players who have them can still see it as a precious item.

  20. #60
    It's pretty simple really...

    If you are going to make the crit chance the same on both scopes and you want to make the LLTS remain as "valuable"...

    1. The LLTS should provide an Add All Offense modifier of some kind (maybe 30 or 40 points).

    2. It should not just boost one ranged special skill (Aimed Shot), but all of them (Aimed Shot, Burst, Full Auto, Fling Shot, Bow Special Att).

    3. The range bonus on an LLTS should push ANY weapon's range to the max.

    4. The scope should drop all non-ranged weapon skills by -2000. It is a targetting scope designed to enhance the chances of critically hitting your target with a ranged weapon from a distance. It should not be feasible to use with non-ranged weapons.

    5. Leave the reqs of the scope alone. Many characters have already been built up to use them and I'm pretty sure you don't want to have to go through another IPR.

    6. The scope should drop again.
    .: Naraya :.

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