Nerfing LLTS - Improvement suggestions only

[__________Nivenyrral]

Cz, I had a suggestion and didn't see this thread till now. So this is a repost of that suggestion. I will modify my original post to point here.

Anyway my suggestion for maintaining the value and usefullness is this. Change the HUD slot that the LLTS goes in. Perhaps reduce the initiative penalty on the LLTS also, though you might want to leave the init penalty as is, assuming that the reduction in crit chance is for balance. This way, you could wear both a VE and a LLTS and get the crit chance for both, but at a greater init penalty, and you would also have to invest some additional ip to get both on. This would also give a top end of +16% to crit with two top end scopes, which would also help to preserve the value of the old LLTS. Hope that helps.

[kylee]

@ ql 200

-200 inits
500 aimed shot
rangeinc 75
add all off 100+ (not enough add off items in game anyway)
runspeed 250 (sorry, roleplaying is totally out the window now)

having more penalty for phys/melee init is just ridiculous, and a cheap stab at melee classes while everyone is upset.

[________________Sbje]

Lol post deleted 5seconds after post before could edit some "suggestion"

Introduce ql400 VE's (which can be blitzed for or from new bosses)

or.. add more AS/less init to scope's although that no way makes up for the loss of 7% crit to those lucky people who've got em.

[Godkill]

My suggestion...
Modify Self +1 Bronto Burger in my tommy

[/atrox]

Melee users benefit greatly from a LLTS too, and many (myself included) payed a fortune and "wasted" ip on "useless" skills.
SO PLZ, plz make sure that everyone will still benefit.
Would be cool if the new changes where special (ie. not obtainable in any other way, like the crit mod), so the scopes will be equally in demand as they where pre-nerf.

Here is what I had in mind (like so many others):
Add to xp
Add to Off/def
Add to Sneak attack
Less init penalty
Change the skill requirement
Maybe a bonus to a melee skill too (the "rifle" skill of melee users)

oh yea, dont do it!

[Whitesand]

Originally posted by Erinsuin
Why are we nerfing the scopes in the first place ? If you nerf Crits on these old scopes then nerf Ma Self only UVC and LMA . Old school llts are our only means of keeping things in banalce against Ma's .

When you do nerf Old school LLTS her is what you should return to them to make them valuable again .

1) Remove the Init penaltys . That is a definat !
2) Add a bonus to all Specials ie it has Aimshot already , add burst fling and Fullauto
3) Dont make it nodrop !
4) Change only the higher ql scopes .


Just my 2cents .

A 8% scope without a init penalty is much stronger as a 15% scope with init penalty! Think about this!

But I agree to some other suggestion on any other thread here. Cap the crit chance in pvp! Don't nerf the LLTS don't nerf anything in pvm. But cap crit chance to 20% in pvp - thats all!

edit: well thinking about the agents. Cap crit to 20% except the 100% crit buff of a agent. This buff should still work and boost the crit higher as 20% but with all other buffs or items in this game you shouldn't be allowed to have more than a 20% crit chance in pvp.

[devildawg]

Originally posted by Nivenyrral
Anyway my suggestion for maintaining the value and usefullness is this. Change the HUD slot that the LLTS goes in. Perhaps reduce the initiative penalty on the LLTS also, though you might want to leave the init penalty as is, assuming that the reduction in crit chance is for balance. This way, you could wear both a VE and a LLTS and get the crit chance for both, but at a greater init penalty, and you would also have to invest some additional ip to get both on. This would also give a top end of +16% to crit with two top end scopes, which would also help to preserve the value of the old LLTS. Hope that helps.

I second that suggestion

[megaram]

Well I've had to suffer with the "ultra brightness" the LLTS gives my Trader.... in return for the 3% crit buff...

My recommendation... remove the "ultra brightness" my eyes would greatly appreciate it

-Mega

[_________Divinecross]

I posted this before probably in the wrong area so i'll repost it here
---------

Okay start off by saying i'm doctor and dont really have good range init skills so I choose to trade very costly item for a 13% instead of a 15% because didn't like the extra -100 init from the 15%. I use a shotgun one that works pretty well with the minimal of a 10% scope. Now I hear about this scope nerf saying that my old ellts 13% going be nerfed. My scope is ql 177 if the critical % on my scope were nerfed to meet the scale between ql 1-250 VE then my critical % will probably to around 6-7% which something I would be very unhappy with and just use a ql 250 VE with a 8% chance. I would want some IPR's right there so could reset the skill. A lot of us used lower than 15% scopes so wouldn't feel init -'s so bad but we didn't want to use 8% because they were too low.

Suggestion 1 : keep all LLTS critical % the same % as the nerfed ones(8% maxium) example a ql 150 ellts would have 8% and so would a ql 200 ellts etc. Making the critical % less on a LLTS that already had more critical % than ql 250 VE would basically be defacing any value the llts hold.

Suggestion 2 : Less disadvantages in inits. Example as you go up in ql's in ellts you will find less - init's. example a ql 150 ellts would give say -400 init while a ql 200 would give say -300 init

Suggestion 3: Damage mods. Give damage modifiers in the ellts. Not like +12 damage but something like +80 for ql 200 ones and so forth to scale. Make the damage mod worth something.

Suggestion 4: range / as mods. Increase the range mods and aimshot mods on old scopes.

Suggestion 5: attack rating mods. Let it give say a small bonus of like 40 to attack rating for ql 200 scopes and scale downward by ql


I am fairly unhappy about my scope being nerfed after the millions in items I spent to get it. If log on after the nerf find that my ql 177 scope has a 6% critical and now some crappy mods. I will want 2 IPR points and 150 mill in credits to make for the money I wasted. I will be fairly happy and consider my Ellts a vableable item given the suggestions I listed put into it.

[WhistlinJoe]

Originally posted by Nivenyrral
Cz, I had a suggestion and didn't see this thread till now. So this is a repost of that suggestion. I will modify my original post to point here.

Anyway my suggestion for maintaining the value and usefullness is this. Change the HUD slot that the LLTS goes in. Perhaps reduce the initiative penalty on the LLTS also, though you might want to leave the init penalty as is, assuming that the reduction in crit chance is for balance. This way, you could wear both a VE and a LLTS and get the crit chance for both, but at a greater init penalty, and you would also have to invest some additional ip to get both on. This would also give a top end of +16% to crit with two top end scopes, which would also help to preserve the value of the old LLTS. Hope that helps.

Thats a good one

[_________Divinecross]

Originally posted by Xenozx
Targeting scope vision enhancer ql 400 is as follows

modify self aimed shot 600
modify self critical chance 15
modify self melee init -800
modify self physical init -800
modify self ranged init -800
modify self weapon range 80

An Ellts ql 400

modify self aimed shot 600
modify self critical chance 15
modify self melee init -600
modify self physical init -600
modify self ranged init -600
modify self weapon range 80
modify self add all off +100
modify self concealment +200

This will be a nerf - though the scope would still hold a very good price.

Yours faithfully
Xenozx

Nice idea but wouldn't make your old ELLTS as valuable as a VE. Doubt people would even consider a ql 200 ellts with a 7% critical and those mods valuable. Remember a lot people didn't use ql 200 ellts because the -800 in init's. A lot people did use 10%-13% because the - init's were not as bad and it beat a ql 250 VE. With the scale you just gave there I wouldn't consider my nice little 13% scope worth the millions in items I gave for it. If the 8% critical were to scale the same after nerf in all current Ellts with 8% or above % then I would consider my scope worth while.

[kilroy13]

Ok, i read everything in both threads on this and here are my suggestions:


First lets look at the intention of the LLTS, its to do damage. Period. People take a major speed hit so they can do MORE DAMAGE.

So trade skill increases, xp increases, general skill increases, hp and np are moot, that is simply not what you spent the money/ip on to equip it. It might be a nice tradeoff (ok, no matter what it sucks loosing the +15 crit) but its not inline with what EVERYONE that equiped the a LLTS wanted.

So any tradeoff increases need to be in damage.

+to attack ratings
+to damage
+to to offense

Every scope that was 8% or above stays at 8% crit increase, and as ql increases you get more and more of the above damage increasing effects.

I would also think that there would be some ammount of init penalty decreases also, since there is no way your going to make up for the loss of +7% crit just by increasing some damage, specially when the damage will never be increased enough to counter less crit.


And making this non-MA or less effective for MA's is just silly. Bracers were nerfed because people were reflecting too much when soldiers are the reflect masters. So bracers were nerfed the same for everybody. MA's are the crit class, so any decrease which effects something crit based needs to be equal on all classes. Do MA's crit like a son of a gun, yes, that is simply what they are supposed to do.

[Warboc]

This issue bothers me. Nothing can really be done in mmorpg's to change the minds of dev teams on such issues. They have preached nerf, therefore it will happen. I suppose all I can really hope for it to have an old ellts that no longer drops, with bonuses that are not atainable with any "new" scope.


Something that worries me a great deal tho. I have a QL 153 ellts, 11% scope. I fear that come 14.6 I will end up with a QL 153 "newly modified" ellts.... BUT with only 3% to crit (like an equivalent QL vision enhancer). I would want 8% crit for my scope at least.

PLEASE, do no do this. A QL 250 Vision Enhancer at 8% would be more useful to me than any elts with 3%.

My proposal: All ellts' with +9% or more to crit be dropped down to 8%. All ellts' from 1-8% of course would have no change to crit.

I do not want a 3% crit scope with "new bonuses". I want a 8% crit scope with "new bonuses".


Laterness,
Warboc
192 Adv
Rubi-Ka 1

[Aftergloe]

Originally posted by Nivenyrral

Anyway my suggestion for maintaining the value and usefullness is this. Change the HUD slot that the LLTS goes in. Perhaps reduce the initiative penalty on the LLTS also, though you might want to leave the init penalty as is, assuming that the reduction in crit chance is for balance. This way, you could wear both a VE and a LLTS and get the crit chance for both, but at a greater init penalty, and you would also have to invest some additional ip to get both on. This would also give a top end of +16% to crit with two top end scopes, which would also help to preserve the value of the old LLTS. Hope that helps.

Killer idea, along with one of the first ones that said add a "HEFTY" xp bonus...you wanna make up for the 100-200 mill ppl spent on it? good luck. I think leaving it as is would be the safest way, otherwise, whatever you think is going to be good enough to make up for 100-200 mill in credits will either be 1) not really good enough 2) be complained about by the EXACT SAME PEOPLE that complained to you about the crit %.


Tired of making friends in this game just to watch them leave because FC messes up. That's all.

Akashha/Raawwr/Ridemption

[_______________Sware]

Well here I go again:

Make it a superior TIM scope adding initials.

while TIM Scope has %1 crit 180 init

a QL200 ELLTS might be %8 crit 400+ init or so

[________Garzu-perman]

I suggest that the llts should not be more powerful than the new ones, so the bonus it should have instead of the 7% it looses should be for example:

1. Longer range
2. higher aimed shot skill bonus
3. dunno, just as long as it doesnt effect the wearers AMS, damage output, or anythink like it. Let the bonuses come on other fields, just not give it more damage than the others.

[Zed Dabucho]

just leave the scope the way it is or make it so melee char. can not use it

here is my idea

ql 200 scope

10% crit
+350 to aim shot
+200 to fling
+200 burst
+200 full auto
+180 ranged init (or the same as the T.I.M scope)
-2000 melee init (this will make this scope a range only scope.)
-2000 phys init (this will nerf the MA from using the scope.)
weopon range 45

hell is the +200 all the fling burst and auto is to much then give it a XP bonus, or maybe a damage bonus.

if this scope is for range only and you guys are pissed about MA being over powered then do this. the scope will still be worth something and some people will be happy.

then make a tool for melee person. that is more setup for them. sense it is only far they get a good tool to use to. maybe make it a enf only tool or ma only tool. just a little something to help out the people that funcom jacked over.

just my 2 cents

[_____________Outlauw]

Originally posted by Sware
Well here I go again:

Make it a superior TIM scope adding initials.

while TIM Scope has %1 crit 180 init

a QL200 ELLTS might be %8 crit 400+ init or so

that's more unbalancing than the current scope... don't ya think??? thats like making the gun hit twice as much but crit chance half as much per hit... so you still crit the same number of times.. instead you get xtra damage by hitting more often...

one thing that should change with all scopes is a greater negative for melee users or for it to be a rangedcritincrease and a meleecritincrease added to them... somehow I just can't picture an MA with a scope installed on his arm, so he can see where to hit you better :P


These items should be made better than current scopes.. but not so much better, that you have to have one to PvP.....

In addition, they shouldn't add to fling/burst/full auto.... these would completely ruin the soldiers best abilities.. by making theme everyone's best abilities

I think starting with the VE and then adding +20 to damage and then something similar to combining it with a Globe of clarity... would still make them valuable. In fact if anyone wants an advantage in PvP... it would still be a very nice advantage.

It SHOULD NOT add to ranged init... that's the whole point of the TIM Scope which was supposed to help balance rifles with other weapons...

If they have any advantages to them, then they will to some extent maintain their value... they are already rare and become even more rare with some of the players who were banned who definitely had them.

Finally my outline for the new scopes would be something like

QL200
+9 percent crit (slightly better than new scope without being double crit percentage)
-375 Ranged Init (slightly better than new scopes)
-600 melee Init
-600 physical Init
-50 Nano Init
+10 offense
+10 defense (questionable, since it is a offensive minded item)
+20 to all damage types (another advantage to enw scopes)

[_____________Outlauw]

Originally posted by Zed Dabucho
just leave the scope the way it is or make it so melee char. can not use it

here is my idea

ql 200 scope

10% crit
+350 to aim shot
+200 to fling
+200 burst
+200 full auto
+180 ranged init (or the same as the T.I.M scope)
-2000 melee init (this will make this scope a range only scope.)
-2000 phys init (this will nerf the MA from using the scope.)
weopon range 45

hell is the +200 all the fling burst and auto is to much then give it a XP bonus, or maybe a damage bonus.

if this scope is for range only and you guys are pissed about MA being over powered then do this. the scope will still be worth something and some people will be happy.

then make a tool for melee person. that is more setup for them. sense it is only far they get a good tool to use to. maybe make it a enf only tool or ma only tool. just a little something to help out the people that funcom jacked over.

just my 2 cents

Nice.. but then that would make my TIM scope 100% for anyone who isn't using a rifle... and make that a requirement by all ranged weapons users for PvP...

Also... to add burst/fling/full auto will further make a soldier useless considering the VERY low burst/fling reqs on all weapons and that the soldiers are supposed to be getting a FA buff...

To add burst/fling/full auto to the scope and a positive ranged init will have everyone using CHS's in less than a week.....

[Zed Dabucho]

yes that is why i said if the fling, burst, and auto is a little crazy. then add a XP bonus, or some + to damage bonus. maybe even a evade bonus. these are all ideas though. =)

this was my idea

ql 200 scope

10% crit
+350 to aim shot
+200 to fling
+200 burst
+200 full auto
+180 ranged init (or the same as the T.I.M scope)
-2000 melee init (this will make this scope a range only scope.)
-2000 phys init (this will nerf the MA from using the scope.)
weopon range 45

hell is the +200 all the fling burst and auto is to much then give it a XP bonus, or maybe a damage bonus.

if this scope is for range only and you guys are pissed about MA being over powered then do this. the scope will still be worth something and some people will be happy.

then make a tool for melee person. that is more setup for them. sense it is only far they get a good tool to use to. maybe make it a enf only tool or ma only tool. just a little something to help out the people that funcom jacked over.

just my 2 cents


Outlauw quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice.. but then that would make my TIM scope 100% for anyone who isn't using a rifle... and make that a requirement by all ranged weapons users for PvP...

Also... to add burst/fling/full auto will further make a soldier useless considering the VERY low burst/fling reqs on all weapons and that the soldiers are supposed to be getting a FA buff...

To add burst/fling/full auto to the scope and a positive ranged init will have everyone using CHS's in less than a week.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Acon]

Change item so when its equiped and i sit down, i sits in a chair. That would be as just as useful as anything else and cool.
I sit in a chair, you sit on the ground.

Thats a item alot of people would want.